14 ms·

Coders guide to good coffee

108 points by drmironov 16y ago

jon_dahl 16y ago
One more item: in a work environment, it's really useful to have single cups of coffee on demand. A pot is usually too much, and is only really good for a short time (even in a thermal carafe). So my office sprung for a super-automatic espresso maker. We got this one - http://www.amazon.com/Jura-Capresso-13185-Impressa-Espresso-Metallic/dp/B00030J23S http://www.amazon.com/Jura-Capresso-13185-Impressa-Espresso-... - but there are a few dozen models that are similar. It makes really good espresso (freshly ground, brewed at the right temperature, etc.), and you can dial in your desired strength by tweaking the amount of water. An espresso with a few ounces of hot water makes for great coffee. Not cheap up front, but with 5-10 people using it for a few years, it isn't that expensive either.
- dotBen 16y ago
  That's a great model. I own a Krups XP9000 (similar to the Jura) which went out of production about 9 months ago but you still see them being sold off at places like Bed Bath and Beyond and even Amazon. It's a great machine that originally retailed $2000 but you can pick it up for ~$500 I flip back and forth on the idea of having an espresso machine at work. Jason Calac-anus raves about how great it is your employees don't have to leave the office and can be more productive but I actually find getting out of the office to stretch my legs, give my eyes a break, etc is all beneficial to my productivity. I'm also lucky here in downtown SF to be close to a number of Blue Bottle outlets and other fine local coffee establishments. It does add up though, I probably spend $50+ a week on coffee from cafes.
- Terretta 16y ago
  Absolutely. Five years ago I calculated the cost of daily Starbucks (or local coffee bar of choice), considered why I preferred their coffee over regular coffee pot brews, found there really is a texture and taste difference with fresh ground espresso made coffees (see Wikipedia "espresso" paragraph on "crema"), and bought this: http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-ESAM3500-N-Magnifica-Super-Automatic-Espresso/dp/B000N31HEM http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-ESAM3500-N-Magnifica-Super-Au... Some three thousand cups of perfect coffee later, it seems like it's not just a good idea for an office. PS. Use distilled water in these machines, and you don't have to descale them, and you avoid coloring the taste of the coffee.
johnswamps 16y ago
This is all spot on. The art of making the perfect cup of tea is fairly analogous: buy fresh, loose leaf tea, pour the right temperature water over the right amount of tea for the right of time, and then enjoy some great tea.
- c1sc0 16y ago
  Do you know why the Chinese always seem to drink tea from these massive glass jars?
  - Groxx 16y ago
    For 1, porcelain is far more predictable with heat retention than most forms of ceramics. Try pouring a cup of boiling water into a handful of your favorite mugs, and note the temperature difference in a couple minutes. Or pouring less water into some (big difference then). Barring evaporated heat (prevented with a cover), a porcelain will still behave roughly the same with even 1/2 the water it could hold full. For 2, uh... the better to sip with? * shrug * don't really know.
  - johnswamps 16y ago
    Nope, though I can try guessing. Although the material used can have a noticeable effect on the tea (both in temperature and flavor) I would think this is just for convenience. Glass is a neutral material good for any kind of tea and is easy to clean. A jar wouldn't spill easily and would be good for travelling. When most people drink tea they just want caffeine and convenience comes before taste.
  - joshwa 16y ago
    They are mostly drinking green tea in those jars. Green tea brews at a much lower temperature (150-180F); indeed, since they are leaving the tea leaves in there all day and refilling it, they can use even cooler water and let it steep slowly. Heavy glass is also a decent insulator, keeping it warm all day.
  - byw 16y ago
    Mostly for convenience I think. There's also the working-class/unpretentious image, and many people dig that. You will find many Chinese government officials drinking from glass jars in public appearances. They probably have expensive red clay tea sets at home though.
dotBen 16y ago
I'm not sure there is a great deal of new insight in this article for anyone who isn't already a coffee geek but it's worth a read. For me, what is more interesting is that this is an article from 2002! (yeah, check out the latest discussions over on alt.coffee!) I wonder how these things resurface?
minus1 16y ago
I like nice things, I really do, but what I've found is that sometimes being a connoisseur kills your ability to enjoy simple things.
- capt_rubba 16y ago
  Perhaps I misunderstand the meaning of "connoisseur", but I don't see anything connoisseur about the article. It talks about really simple things: just get a good, fresh coffee and don't rely too much on expensive technology: a simple press will do.
- mseebach 16y ago
  I don't want to be able to enjoy the bitter caffeine-infused black water that passes for coffee so many places. And sometimes I've found that being a connoisseur brings the ability to enjoy many other simple things: that a glass of really good wine can last for an hour, or that when I've had a good strong cup of fresh ground, fresh roasted coffee in the morning, I don't feel the urge to drink coffee for the rest of the day, rather than pouring down 6-8 cups a day of the above-mentioned junk, as I used to.
  - TimeForThis 16y ago
    Plus if you find a place that has decent, properly made coffee, the staff are probably into it and actually want to work there so the whole experience is just better and even educational. Quality begets quality.
    - mseebach 16y ago
      I make it myself, so the staff is often a bit tired and slow when they make my coffee :)
- Groxx 16y ago
  Personally, I usually go for alternatives when the coffee isn't any good. Or cream-and-sugar it if it helps (some it just makes worse). Water is available almost anywhere, as is tea (another thing that's far better a quality-grade higher). There's also a difference between being picky (not eating what you don't like) and being preferenced (preferring what you like). The connoisseur not-enjoying-the-simple-things is largely a mind-set, not a consequence of finding there are better things out there.
kuro3hat 16y ago
> [Originally I posted this article on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 02:29:34 PM EST to Kuro5hin.org. I am reprinting it here with minor corrections.] wow, kuro5hin.org, that brings back memories... and it is still kickin' (barely)
- c1sc0 16y ago
  I've always wondered if a revival of kuro5hin-style huge articles & stories would be possible. Or maybe we call that blogs nowadays.
  - pjscott 16y ago
    Less Wrong (http://lesswrong.com/ http://lesswrong.com/) modified the Reddit code and made a "community blog" with long articles. The concept of blogging really has taken over this ontological niche, but there's room for a lot of variation in what you call a blog. It's flexible enough to cover everything from really long articles to tweet-at-a-time adventure serials like http://twitter.com/Othar http://twitter.com/Othar . I wonder what other types of blogging are still uninvented, or at least not yet popular.
  - Perceval 16y ago
    Yeah, it seems like long-form pieces have just been decentralized to blogs. You can still publish quality stuff at Kuro5hin (if you introduce yourself in the Diary ghetto first). The decentralization to blogs seems like a shame to me. Publishing in a public sphere like Kuro5hin guaranteed an automatic audience, whereas publishing something on your personal blog is more of less a shot in the dark unless you're already famous or somehow get picked up by Digg/Reddit.
ericb 16y ago
Articles like this make me wonder how much of this is simple religious ritual. I personally can't tell the difference between fresh ground and store ground coffee. I feel like these best practices are not subjected to KISS type debugging after they are invented. If a blind taste test doesn't reveal a difference, is the step needed? Instead they become the voodoo of the connoisseur. Regardless of the possibility that, for example, "Put a kettle of freshly drawn, cold water on the stove" works equally well (and faster) with warm or hot water. I can't tell from store ground from home ground, so I just buy ground to save time.
- c1sc0 16y ago
  Makes me think of the abysmally low level of reproducibility in the world of wine tasting. E.g. for years a debate has been raging about 'cork vs. plastic' with the traditionalists expounding the virtues of cork while in controlled environments there is absolutely no basis for such claims.
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
  It may work faster with warm/hot water, but the reason (probably lost in the mists of antiquity) that most recipes for pretty much anything say boil cold water is that many hot water heaters leave a bad taste in the water from the copper and scale buildup in the tank. Where I live, the water is extremely hard and iron-rich, so I always have to make tea or coffee with filtered water. In the end, food & beverage is not a religion: just do what works for you and ignore the purists.
- geuis 16y ago
  I feel for you, if you are unable to tell the difference. It might mean you haven't had really good coffee before! There are different brands of store-bought, pre-ground coffee that are better than others. Say, 8o'clock coffee compared to Folgers. Under no circumstances drink Folgers. Its sickening how bad it is. If available at your local grocery, 8o'clock coffee is pretty damn good. That being said, fresh whole beans aren't always fresh whole beans. There are differences in beans. For example, whole beans at Wal-mart. Do not buy, do not buy! When I lived in Ft. Lauderdale, I did most of my shopping at the Wal-mart that was half a mile away. For about 6 months I switched to getting the flavored beans and grinding them in the store. While they tasted better than the pre-ground coffee, the artificial flavoring that was saturated into the beans did un-godly things to my insides. Ugh. Today, living in San Francisco, I have much better access to real coffee. I have for now settled on buying whole beans, pre-roasted, from the Whole Foods that is right down the street. I have one of the $15 grinders mentioned in the article, and a standard auto-drip pot. I grind fresh before every pot. My roommate doesn't have the same taste for coffee that I do, so if I am not careful in making sure there are fresh beans in the house we end up with the oversize red plastic jar of Folgers that he tends to buy if we're out. The best analogy I can think of is using sand paper instead of toilet paper, if you follow my drift. I am tempted to try roasting my own beans. It might be fun and tasty.
camiller 16y ago
The only thing I'd add is water quality matters ... a lot. When I moved to a new office building the coffee was really crappy, even my freshly ground beans had a horrible taste. I switched to using the bottled water the company provides and haven't looked back.
gokhan 16y ago
Coffee drinks illustrated: http://www.lokeshdhakar.com/2007/08/20/an-illustrated-coffee-guide/ http://www.lokeshdhakar.com/2007/08/20/an-illustrated-coffee... A guide to home roasting: http://www.sweetmarias.com/instructions-revamp2_MRT.php http://www.sweetmarias.com/instructions-revamp2_MRT.php Actually, if you roast at home or have access to freshly roasted beans, you will probably won't be able to consume mainstream coffee as stated in the article.
jokull 16y ago
Or get a Nespresso and grab some Arpeggio capsules.
- mitjak 16y ago
  Blech
- joeld42 16y ago
  We used to have these at my workplace. It was terrible. But still better than the drip they had. One guy would open and dump like 20 of the vacuum packed capsules into the drip machine, and we'd have the only decent pot for a week.
Groxx 16y ago
Alternative to the french press that's easier to carry around: a good metal tea filter. Not one that looks like this[1], with holes all over, but one like this[2] with a super-fine mesh. Just knock the coffee out when you're done, and rinse. Also makes excellent tea. You'll get a bit of dusting in the bottom of your mug, but you can either stir it up as you drink (significantly-weaker turkish coffee, I guess) or just leave it. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/swissgold®-TF-300-Tea-Filter/dp/B000G72D70 http://www.amazon.com/swissgold®-TF-300-Tea-Filter/dp/B000G7... [2]: http://www.amazon.com/Finum-Brewing-Medium-Basket-Black/dp/B000I68NCS/ http://www.amazon.com/Finum-Brewing-Medium-Basket-Black/dp/B...
- lovskogen 16y ago
  Does it really work for coffee too?
  - Groxx 16y ago
    I've been using it for years (the same filter, actually), it's excellent, and lets you brew by-the-cup easily. French press pots are a PITA to clean. The mesh is way finer than even the finest grind, though a blade-based grinder will make more dust than a burr-grinder. Make sure you get a decent filter, though. Many of them aren't super-fine. I personally got mine from SpecialTeas for less than I see in stores, and they've got good tea too: http://www.specialteas.com/Tea-Preparation/Permanent-Tea-Filter-for-Mugs-Sm-Pots.html http://www.specialteas.com/Tea-Preparation/Permanent-Tea-Fil...
lovskogen 16y ago
This is great reading. A good cup of coffee is better than five bad ones.
kscaldef 16y ago
> An inexpensive ($15) blade grinder (“whirly-bird”) is sufficient for making drip coffee While this much may be true, using a french press with a blade grinder is a recipe for nasty sludge at the bottom of your cup. There's just too much variation in the grind size.
- johnswamps 16y ago
  It's not a huge deal in practice in my experience. You could always buy a press that uses filters, such as the aeropress.
  - sgt 16y ago
    I love the AeroPress. Bought one a week ago and it makes pretty amazing coffee. No need for an expensive espresso machine to make super-smooth americano... PS: I don't work for AeroPress :)
    - latentflip 16y ago
      I often wish I was on commission for Aeropress, such is my apparent ability to sell the things. They are excellent though - practically sell themselves.
    - madssj 16y ago
      I too share your passion for the AeroPress, and might I add, that using the upside down brewing method[1] it makes excellent americano. Best I've ever had actually. Coffee is not supposed to be bitter, and it's a shame that so many people think "Oh, well, that's just the way coffee tastes I guess.". I recently got my parents one, and they went "Ohh, it can taste like that? That's really good!" [1]: http://coffeecollective.blogspot.com/2010/01/updated-aeropress-brewing-method.html http://coffeecollective.blogspot.com/2010/01/updated-aeropre...
      - mattmichielsen 16y ago
        I've never heard of the upside-down method. That makes a ton of sense.
silentbicycle 16y ago
Cold-brewed coffee is another option. It brings out different flavors from the coffee than brewing it with hot water - there's much less acidity. While I usually drink french-pressed coffee or tea, I like cold-brewed coffee with chicory (e.g. Cafe du Monde) in the summer. To make it, I put about 3/4 cup coarse-ground coffee in a 1 qt. jar, fill it with water, and let it steep in the fridge for a day. After that, just strain it - two or three passes through a strainer, then a coffee filter seems to work best. The result is a kind of coffee concentrate - mixing it 50-50 with water seems about right. Refrigerated, it will keep for at least a week or two. You can make larger batches, of course.
gamble 16y ago
As an alternative, try cold-brewed (aka 'Toddy') coffee. Cold-brewing circumvents the freshness problem by brewing large batches of concentrate that can be stored in the fridge. Then simply mix the concentrate with boiling water for standard coffee, or with cold water to make true iced coffee. The results are notably less bitter than conventional coffee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddy_coffee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddy_coffee
- ecuzzillo 16y ago
  I don't know about circumventing the freshness problem, but I do know that if you introduce chicory to the brewing process and then add milk, it becomes fantastic. See iced coffee here: http://www.bluebottlecoffee.net/coffee/preparation-guide/ http://www.bluebottlecoffee.net/coffee/preparation-guide/ That's also probably the best guide on the internet for coffee preparation, and one of the better places in the world to buy coffee in any form.
vixen99 16y ago
Using two filter papers with a holder, it seems that temperature is <the> critical factor in creating the smooth flavour I happen to prefer. 185F/85C does the job perfectly. The coffee gets punchier as the temperature of the water is increased. Seems to be quite a sensitive relationship. One variation we enjoy is to add a pinch of cinnamon when grinding the coffee. Strangely, I've found little difference in flavour which can be put down to the brand if they're of equivalent roasts.
joubert 16y ago
My setup is: * Delonghi Magnifica (bought with Marriott hotel points): http://www.delonghiusa.com/index.php?product&nid=20 http://www.delonghiusa.com/index.php?product&nid=20 * Illy coffee (whole bean) What's great is the machine actually does the grinding and there after brews the coffee.
yason 16y ago
I think it's important to not take things for granted and seek a bit to find something that you truly enjoy. And, I do, too, think that most of what is sold as coffee is pretty much crap. However, instead of grinding my own coffee, I found another (and presumably as labour-intensive) sweet spot. Maybe there's better coffee out there but this is good enough for me. If anyone's interested... I have a six-cup Italian steel moka pot, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_(coffee_pot) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_(coffee_pot) and espresso-ground coffee. This is what I've been drinking for years. For the espresso, I've settled for the cheap Lidl flavour sold for €1.99 per 200g; not really for the price but surprisingly the taste. It's the only thing I buy from Lidl: I go there twice a year and buy a plastic bag full of espresso. Pleasant and strong. Out of one pot, I get about three regular cups a day. I make my coffee in the morning and use a thermos to keep the remaining hot till afternoon. If I have a long drive to make, I fill up my thermos and drink it during the day since most gas stations here sell bad coffee. I would never go back to filters or a French press. And I wouldn't buy an espresso machine either: we've got one at work and while it makes fairly good espresso, it's not significantly better or worse than what I make in the moka pot. And mine costs about 20 euros. The best coffee I've ever made and had.
- Ernestas 16y ago
  Moka pot is the best. I've got one myself after being in italy and seeing how all of them use it at home. They drink crazy amounts of espresso there. I buy myself illycaffè type italian coffee it just has this different taste (that I like a lot) from other types of coffee I've tried.
gkelly 16y ago
What kinds of places sell freshly roasted whole beans? Someone mentioned Whole Foods, but are there others?
- MartinCron 16y ago
  I'm lucky enough to live in Seattle, where we have lots of great small roasters. My very favorite place (no affiliation besides fanboyism) is Espresso Vivace. http://www.espressovivace.com/ http://www.espressovivace.com/ You can order freshly roasted whole beans from them online. It's not cheap, but life is too short to drink the cheap stuff.
mindcrime 16y ago
I love coffee, but that is way too much frickin' work for me to invest. Sorry "coffee snobs" I'd love to join your ranks, but there are really just other pressing priorities right now. Maybe after I get "FU Money." :-)
zandorg 16y ago
I use a Pezzetti which sits on a gas stove. It makes about 1 cup in about 5 minutes. Also, I buy 500g of ground-from-beans coffee at a proper coffee store in town, and put it in the fridge so it doesn't go stale (I can't get to town that often). Works fine for me so far! Even with all that, each cup is only about 10 pence.
dangravell 16y ago
For UK based hacker coffee addicts: I recently discovered Has Bean which seem to tick all the boxes in the OP -> http://hasbean.co.uk/ http://hasbean.co.uk/ (no connection). Good blog too.
joeld42 16y ago
I swear by the Aeropress: http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm I brew it a little differently than the instructions -- I use 2 scoops of coarse espresso, fill the canister, let it drip halfway out (about 2 mins) then top it off, wait another 30 secs, then use the plunger. Makes a perfect 12oz cup of coffee, every time. I also have a hand-pull Gaggia espresso machine from Italy. So it's not like I'm comparing it to crappy drip. With the same beans, I get equal quality, and the aeropress is faster.
- shmulkey18 16y ago
  The Aeropress is fantastic: it's cheap, easy to use and clean, and portable. It makes fantastic coffee. I'm not an espresso expert, but I think you would have to spend hundreds more to get an espresso machine which can make as good Americano coffee. Spend a few bucks on a burr grinder, however. I bought a Saeco Titan from Costco some time ago for $70 and have been very happy with it.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    I bought a used burr grinder off of Amazon for $40.
euroclydon 16y ago
I'm not sure about the "off the boil" advice for temperature. I read in Cooks Illustrated recently that boiling temperature water makes coffee taste bitter and that it's best to use water between 190F - 205F. I tried this recently, with my usual pour over cone, and found that 190F water made the coffee delicious!
- Avshalom 16y ago
  by the time you pour the water and it hits/heats the room temperature grounds the water is going to drop several degrees, I could go test it but I suspect >90% of the brewing is at <205F. EDIT: for example when brewing beer my friends and I tend to add the grains when the water is about 10 degrees hotter than we want to mash at.
alrex021 16y ago
I got this Nespresso machine few days ago: http://www.amazon.com/Nespresso-D120-US-BK-NE-Automatic-Single-Serve-Limousine/dp/B002NGNHBS http://www.amazon.com/Nespresso-D120-US-BK-NE-Automatic-Sing... It just simply makes awesome expressos.
whyenot 16y ago
> As most software and creative professionals know, coffee is an important technology for boosting mental acuity and maintaining peak on-the-job performance. There is good evidence that caffeine can increase human performance, but the human body also builds up a tolerance for caffeine very quickly. I wonder how much of the boost people believe they get is from caffeine and how much of it is a placebo effect. According to Wikipedia, 300mg 3x a day for 18 days (approx. 5-8 cups of drip coffee per day) is enough for many individuals to no longer experience any effects of caffeine at all.
bokchoi 16y ago
The best Seattle roast, IMHO, is Vita from Vivace. I just grabbed a bag and it is in the french press now. Absolutely amazing: http://www.espressovivace.com/intro.html http://www.espressovivace.com/intro.html
mmphosis 16y ago
Stop drinking bad coffee. http://thetyee.ca/Life/2009/02/20/BadCoffee/ http://thetyee.ca/Life/2009/02/20/BadCoffee/
borism 16y ago
Coders guide to good coffee? Nah, Russian Tea HOWTO: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1519624 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1519624
jgg 16y ago
I'm not the most cultured coffee drinker, but it's amazing to me what passes as "good" in the US. All the self-proclaimed coffee addicts I know drink either McDonald's or Starbuck's, which taste like lukewarm piss water and burnt coffee bean scraps mixed with 77 different varieties of mint flavoring, respectively. The one time I had coffee that I though was "good" was some sort of expensive French blend. I can't remember the name or taste, as it was a long time ago. I stopped drinking coffee regularly a while ago, along with most soft drinks. I find that not being addled by caffeine/sugar rushes, while drinking lots of water, makes me fairly energetic for most of the day.
dashr 16y ago
Not to be a Danny Downer- because I love my coffee (Philz Ambrosia!) - but drinking lots of coffee greatly increases your chances of colon cancer - especially as you approach your mid 30s. Enjoy that cup a day but learn to like tea too.
- Gormo 16y ago
  What's the source of that? I found an article on WebMD (http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food) that claims that moderate coffee consumption can actually reduce your risk of colon cancer.
  - dashr 16y ago
    Source is my personal doctor told me to cut back cause it was bad for me. But also from personal experience, when I drink a lot of cups per day for several days, my shall remain nameless parts start feeling odd. Doesn't really start till you're in your 30s and later though.
snowbird122 16y ago
I'm curious if I can tell the difference between good coffee and bad. Where can I go in Austin, TX to get a great cup of coffee, and what should I order? If I can't tell the difference between the good stuff and the stuff I usually drink, then there is no need to go through the fuss, however, I'd love to have an awakening.
kentosi 16y ago
Are there any coffee-drinking Sydney hackers here? If so, any recommendations for great coffee around here? I've been to Campos (the Newtown cafe) and it's amazing, but a little hard to get to. http://www.camposcoffee.com.au/ http://www.camposcoffee.com.au/ Not sure of any others.
feint 16y ago
people seem to have forgotten how a real Italian coffee is made - you don't need an expensive machine, and sure as hell don't drip or filter coffee. You use an espresso maker: http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Express-12-Cup-Stovetop-Espresso/dp/B000FDL588/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1279258361&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Express-12-Cup-Stovetop-Espre... This is how my family and the Italians have done it for generations

108 points by drmironov 16y ago

One more item: in a work environment, it's really useful to have single cups of coffee on demand. A pot is usually too much, and is only really good for a short time (even in a thermal carafe). So my office sprung for a super-automatic espresso maker. We got this one - http://www.amazon.com/Jura-Capresso-13185-Impressa-Espresso-Metallic/dp/B00030J23S http://www.amazon.com/Jura-Capresso-13185-Impressa-Espresso-... - but there are a few dozen models that are similar. It makes really good espresso (freshly ground, brewed at the right temperature, etc.), and you can dial in your desired strength by tweaking the amount of water. An espresso with a few ounces of hot water makes for great coffee. Not cheap up front, but with 5-10 people using it for a few years, it isn't that expensive either.

dotBen 16y ago
That's a great model. I own a Krups XP9000 (similar to the Jura) which went out of production about 9 months ago but you still see them being sold off at places like Bed Bath and Beyond and even Amazon. It's a great machine that originally retailed $2000 but you can pick it up for ~$500 I flip back and forth on the idea of having an espresso machine at work. Jason Calac-anus raves about how great it is your employees don't have to leave the office and can be more productive but I actually find getting out of the office to stretch my legs, give my eyes a break, etc is all beneficial to my productivity. I'm also lucky here in downtown SF to be close to a number of Blue Bottle outlets and other fine local coffee establishments. It does add up though, I probably spend $50+ a week on coffee from cafes.
Terretta 16y ago
Absolutely. Five years ago I calculated the cost of daily Starbucks (or local coffee bar of choice), considered why I preferred their coffee over regular coffee pot brews, found there really is a texture and taste difference with fresh ground espresso made coffees (see Wikipedia "espresso" paragraph on "crema"), and bought this: http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-ESAM3500-N-Magnifica-Super-Automatic-Espresso/dp/B000N31HEM http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-ESAM3500-N-Magnifica-Super-Au... Some three thousand cups of perfect coffee later, it seems like it's not just a good idea for an office. PS. Use distilled water in these machines, and you don't have to descale them, and you avoid coloring the taste of the coffee.

johnswamps 16y ago

This is all spot on. The art of making the perfect cup of tea is fairly analogous: buy fresh, loose leaf tea, pour the right temperature water over the right amount of tea for the right of time, and then enjoy some great tea.

c1sc0 16y ago
Do you know why the Chinese always seem to drink tea from these massive glass jars?
- Groxx 16y ago
  For 1, porcelain is far more predictable with heat retention than most forms of ceramics. Try pouring a cup of boiling water into a handful of your favorite mugs, and note the temperature difference in a couple minutes. Or pouring less water into some (big difference then). Barring evaporated heat (prevented with a cover), a porcelain will still behave roughly the same with even 1/2 the water it could hold full. For 2, uh... the better to sip with? * shrug * don't really know.
- johnswamps 16y ago
  Nope, though I can try guessing. Although the material used can have a noticeable effect on the tea (both in temperature and flavor) I would think this is just for convenience. Glass is a neutral material good for any kind of tea and is easy to clean. A jar wouldn't spill easily and would be good for travelling. When most people drink tea they just want caffeine and convenience comes before taste.
- joshwa 16y ago
  They are mostly drinking green tea in those jars. Green tea brews at a much lower temperature (150-180F); indeed, since they are leaving the tea leaves in there all day and refilling it, they can use even cooler water and let it steep slowly. Heavy glass is also a decent insulator, keeping it warm all day.
- byw 16y ago
  Mostly for convenience I think. There's also the working-class/unpretentious image, and many people dig that. You will find many Chinese government officials drinking from glass jars in public appearances. They probably have expensive red clay tea sets at home though.

dotBen 16y ago

I'm not sure there is a great deal of new insight in this article for anyone who isn't already a coffee geek but it's worth a read. For me, what is more interesting is that this is an article from 2002! (yeah, check out the latest discussions over on alt.coffee!) I wonder how these things resurface?

minus1 16y ago

I like nice things, I really do, but what I've found is that sometimes being a connoisseur kills your ability to enjoy simple things.

capt_rubba 16y ago
Perhaps I misunderstand the meaning of "connoisseur", but I don't see anything connoisseur about the article. It talks about really simple things: just get a good, fresh coffee and don't rely too much on expensive technology: a simple press will do.
mseebach 16y ago
I don't want to be able to enjoy the bitter caffeine-infused black water that passes for coffee so many places. And sometimes I've found that being a connoisseur brings the ability to enjoy many other simple things: that a glass of really good wine can last for an hour, or that when I've had a good strong cup of fresh ground, fresh roasted coffee in the morning, I don't feel the urge to drink coffee for the rest of the day, rather than pouring down 6-8 cups a day of the above-mentioned junk, as I used to.
- TimeForThis 16y ago
  Plus if you find a place that has decent, properly made coffee, the staff are probably into it and actually want to work there so the whole experience is just better and even educational. Quality begets quality.
  - mseebach 16y ago
    I make it myself, so the staff is often a bit tired and slow when they make my coffee :)
Groxx 16y ago
Personally, I usually go for alternatives when the coffee isn't any good. Or cream-and-sugar it if it helps (some it just makes worse). Water is available almost anywhere, as is tea (another thing that's far better a quality-grade higher). There's also a difference between being picky (not eating what you don't like) and being preferenced (preferring what you like). The connoisseur not-enjoying-the-simple-things is largely a mind-set, not a consequence of finding there are better things out there.

kuro3hat 16y ago

> [Originally I posted this article on Thu Apr 25th, 2002 at 02:29:34 PM EST to Kuro5hin.org. I am reprinting it here with minor corrections.] wow, kuro5hin.org, that brings back memories... and it is still kickin' (barely)

c1sc0 16y ago
I've always wondered if a revival of kuro5hin-style huge articles & stories would be possible. Or maybe we call that blogs nowadays.
- pjscott 16y ago
  Less Wrong (http://lesswrong.com/ http://lesswrong.com/) modified the Reddit code and made a "community blog" with long articles. The concept of blogging really has taken over this ontological niche, but there's room for a lot of variation in what you call a blog. It's flexible enough to cover everything from really long articles to tweet-at-a-time adventure serials like http://twitter.com/Othar http://twitter.com/Othar . I wonder what other types of blogging are still uninvented, or at least not yet popular.
- Perceval 16y ago
  Yeah, it seems like long-form pieces have just been decentralized to blogs. You can still publish quality stuff at Kuro5hin (if you introduce yourself in the Diary ghetto first). The decentralization to blogs seems like a shame to me. Publishing in a public sphere like Kuro5hin guaranteed an automatic audience, whereas publishing something on your personal blog is more of less a shot in the dark unless you're already famous or somehow get picked up by Digg/Reddit.

ericb 16y ago

Articles like this make me wonder how much of this is simple religious ritual. I personally can't tell the difference between fresh ground and store ground coffee. I feel like these best practices are not subjected to KISS type debugging after they are invented. If a blind taste test doesn't reveal a difference, is the step needed? Instead they become the voodoo of the connoisseur. Regardless of the possibility that, for example, "Put a kettle of freshly drawn, cold water on the stove" works equally well (and faster) with warm or hot water. I can't tell from store ground from home ground, so I just buy ground to save time.

c1sc0 16y ago
Makes me think of the abysmally low level of reproducibility in the world of wine tasting. E.g. for years a debate has been raging about 'cork vs. plastic' with the traditionalists expounding the virtues of cork while in controlled environments there is absolutely no basis for such claims.
HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
It may work faster with warm/hot water, but the reason (probably lost in the mists of antiquity) that most recipes for pretty much anything say boil cold water is that many hot water heaters leave a bad taste in the water from the copper and scale buildup in the tank. Where I live, the water is extremely hard and iron-rich, so I always have to make tea or coffee with filtered water. In the end, food & beverage is not a religion: just do what works for you and ignore the purists.
geuis 16y ago
I feel for you, if you are unable to tell the difference. It might mean you haven't had really good coffee before! There are different brands of store-bought, pre-ground coffee that are better than others. Say, 8o'clock coffee compared to Folgers. Under no circumstances drink Folgers. Its sickening how bad it is. If available at your local grocery, 8o'clock coffee is pretty damn good. That being said, fresh whole beans aren't always fresh whole beans. There are differences in beans. For example, whole beans at Wal-mart. Do not buy, do not buy! When I lived in Ft. Lauderdale, I did most of my shopping at the Wal-mart that was half a mile away. For about 6 months I switched to getting the flavored beans and grinding them in the store. While they tasted better than the pre-ground coffee, the artificial flavoring that was saturated into the beans did un-godly things to my insides. Ugh. Today, living in San Francisco, I have much better access to real coffee. I have for now settled on buying whole beans, pre-roasted, from the Whole Foods that is right down the street. I have one of the $15 grinders mentioned in the article, and a standard auto-drip pot. I grind fresh before every pot. My roommate doesn't have the same taste for coffee that I do, so if I am not careful in making sure there are fresh beans in the house we end up with the oversize red plastic jar of Folgers that he tends to buy if we're out. The best analogy I can think of is using sand paper instead of toilet paper, if you follow my drift. I am tempted to try roasting my own beans. It might be fun and tasty.

camiller 16y ago

The only thing I'd add is water quality matters ... a lot. When I moved to a new office building the coffee was really crappy, even my freshly ground beans had a horrible taste. I switched to using the bottled water the company provides and haven't looked back.

gokhan 16y ago

Coffee drinks illustrated: http://www.lokeshdhakar.com/2007/08/20/an-illustrated-coffee-guide/ http://www.lokeshdhakar.com/2007/08/20/an-illustrated-coffee... A guide to home roasting: http://www.sweetmarias.com/instructions-revamp2_MRT.php http://www.sweetmarias.com/instructions-revamp2_MRT.php Actually, if you roast at home or have access to freshly roasted beans, you will probably won't be able to consume mainstream coffee as stated in the article.

jokull 16y ago

Or get a Nespresso and grab some Arpeggio capsules.

mitjak 16y ago
Blech
joeld42 16y ago
We used to have these at my workplace. It was terrible. But still better than the drip they had. One guy would open and dump like 20 of the vacuum packed capsules into the drip machine, and we'd have the only decent pot for a week.

Groxx 16y ago

Alternative to the french press that's easier to carry around: a good metal tea filter. Not one that looks like this[1], with holes all over, but one like this[2] with a super-fine mesh. Just knock the coffee out when you're done, and rinse. Also makes excellent tea. You'll get a bit of dusting in the bottom of your mug, but you can either stir it up as you drink (significantly-weaker turkish coffee, I guess) or just leave it. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/swissgold®-TF-300-Tea-Filter/dp/B000G72D70 http://www.amazon.com/swissgold®-TF-300-Tea-Filter/dp/B000G7... [2]: http://www.amazon.com/Finum-Brewing-Medium-Basket-Black/dp/B000I68NCS/ http://www.amazon.com/Finum-Brewing-Medium-Basket-Black/dp/B...

lovskogen 16y ago
Does it really work for coffee too?
- Groxx 16y ago
  I've been using it for years (the same filter, actually), it's excellent, and lets you brew by-the-cup easily. French press pots are a PITA to clean. The mesh is way finer than even the finest grind, though a blade-based grinder will make more dust than a burr-grinder. Make sure you get a decent filter, though. Many of them aren't super-fine. I personally got mine from SpecialTeas for less than I see in stores, and they've got good tea too: http://www.specialteas.com/Tea-Preparation/Permanent-Tea-Filter-for-Mugs-Sm-Pots.html http://www.specialteas.com/Tea-Preparation/Permanent-Tea-Fil...

lovskogen 16y ago

This is great reading. A good cup of coffee is better than five bad ones.

kscaldef 16y ago

> An inexpensive ($15) blade grinder (“whirly-bird”) is sufficient for making drip coffee While this much may be true, using a french press with a blade grinder is a recipe for nasty sludge at the bottom of your cup. There's just too much variation in the grind size.

johnswamps 16y ago
It's not a huge deal in practice in my experience. You could always buy a press that uses filters, such as the aeropress.
- sgt 16y ago
  I love the AeroPress. Bought one a week ago and it makes pretty amazing coffee. No need for an expensive espresso machine to make super-smooth americano... PS: I don't work for AeroPress :)
  - latentflip 16y ago
    I often wish I was on commission for Aeropress, such is my apparent ability to sell the things. They are excellent though - practically sell themselves.
  - madssj 16y ago
    I too share your passion for the AeroPress, and might I add, that using the upside down brewing method[1] it makes excellent americano. Best I've ever had actually. Coffee is not supposed to be bitter, and it's a shame that so many people think "Oh, well, that's just the way coffee tastes I guess.". I recently got my parents one, and they went "Ohh, it can taste like that? That's really good!" [1]: http://coffeecollective.blogspot.com/2010/01/updated-aeropress-brewing-method.html http://coffeecollective.blogspot.com/2010/01/updated-aeropre...
    - mattmichielsen 16y ago
      I've never heard of the upside-down method. That makes a ton of sense.

silentbicycle 16y ago

Cold-brewed coffee is another option. It brings out different flavors from the coffee than brewing it with hot water - there's much less acidity. While I usually drink french-pressed coffee or tea, I like cold-brewed coffee with chicory (e.g. Cafe du Monde) in the summer. To make it, I put about 3/4 cup coarse-ground coffee in a 1 qt. jar, fill it with water, and let it steep in the fridge for a day. After that, just strain it - two or three passes through a strainer, then a coffee filter seems to work best. The result is a kind of coffee concentrate - mixing it 50-50 with water seems about right. Refrigerated, it will keep for at least a week or two. You can make larger batches, of course.

gamble 16y ago

As an alternative, try cold-brewed (aka 'Toddy') coffee. Cold-brewing circumvents the freshness problem by brewing large batches of concentrate that can be stored in the fridge. Then simply mix the concentrate with boiling water for standard coffee, or with cold water to make true iced coffee. The results are notably less bitter than conventional coffee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddy_coffee http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddy_coffee

ecuzzillo 16y ago
I don't know about circumventing the freshness problem, but I do know that if you introduce chicory to the brewing process and then add milk, it becomes fantastic. See iced coffee here: http://www.bluebottlecoffee.net/coffee/preparation-guide/ http://www.bluebottlecoffee.net/coffee/preparation-guide/ That's also probably the best guide on the internet for coffee preparation, and one of the better places in the world to buy coffee in any form.

vixen99 16y ago

Using two filter papers with a holder, it seems that temperature is <the> critical factor in creating the smooth flavour I happen to prefer. 185F/85C does the job perfectly. The coffee gets punchier as the temperature of the water is increased. Seems to be quite a sensitive relationship. One variation we enjoy is to add a pinch of cinnamon when grinding the coffee. Strangely, I've found little difference in flavour which can be put down to the brand if they're of equivalent roasts.

joubert 16y ago

My setup is: * Delonghi Magnifica (bought with Marriott hotel points): http://www.delonghiusa.com/index.php?product&nid=20 http://www.delonghiusa.com/index.php?product&nid=20 * Illy coffee (whole bean) What's great is the machine actually does the grinding and there after brews the coffee.

yason 16y ago

I think it's important to not take things for granted and seek a bit to find something that you truly enjoy. And, I do, too, think that most of what is sold as coffee is pretty much crap. However, instead of grinding my own coffee, I found another (and presumably as labour-intensive) sweet spot. Maybe there's better coffee out there but this is good enough for me. If anyone's interested... I have a six-cup Italian steel moka pot, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_(coffee_pot) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_(coffee_pot) and espresso-ground coffee. This is what I've been drinking for years. For the espresso, I've settled for the cheap Lidl flavour sold for €1.99 per 200g; not really for the price but surprisingly the taste. It's the only thing I buy from Lidl: I go there twice a year and buy a plastic bag full of espresso. Pleasant and strong. Out of one pot, I get about three regular cups a day. I make my coffee in the morning and use a thermos to keep the remaining hot till afternoon. If I have a long drive to make, I fill up my thermos and drink it during the day since most gas stations here sell bad coffee. I would never go back to filters or a French press. And I wouldn't buy an espresso machine either: we've got one at work and while it makes fairly good espresso, it's not significantly better or worse than what I make in the moka pot. And mine costs about 20 euros. The best coffee I've ever made and had.

Ernestas 16y ago
Moka pot is the best. I've got one myself after being in italy and seeing how all of them use it at home. They drink crazy amounts of espresso there. I buy myself illycaffè type italian coffee it just has this different taste (that I like a lot) from other types of coffee I've tried.

gkelly 16y ago

What kinds of places sell freshly roasted whole beans? Someone mentioned Whole Foods, but are there others?

MartinCron 16y ago
I'm lucky enough to live in Seattle, where we have lots of great small roasters. My very favorite place (no affiliation besides fanboyism) is Espresso Vivace. http://www.espressovivace.com/ http://www.espressovivace.com/ You can order freshly roasted whole beans from them online. It's not cheap, but life is too short to drink the cheap stuff.

mindcrime 16y ago

I love coffee, but that is way too much frickin' work for me to invest. Sorry "coffee snobs" I'd love to join your ranks, but there are really just other pressing priorities right now. Maybe after I get "FU Money." :-)

zandorg 16y ago

I use a Pezzetti which sits on a gas stove. It makes about 1 cup in about 5 minutes. Also, I buy 500g of ground-from-beans coffee at a proper coffee store in town, and put it in the fridge so it doesn't go stale (I can't get to town that often). Works fine for me so far! Even with all that, each cup is only about 10 pence.

dangravell 16y ago

For UK based hacker coffee addicts: I recently discovered Has Bean which seem to tick all the boxes in the OP -> http://hasbean.co.uk/ http://hasbean.co.uk/ (no connection). Good blog too.

joeld42 16y ago

I swear by the Aeropress: http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm http://www.aerobie.com/Products/aeropress_story.htm I brew it a little differently than the instructions -- I use 2 scoops of coarse espresso, fill the canister, let it drip halfway out (about 2 mins) then top it off, wait another 30 secs, then use the plunger. Makes a perfect 12oz cup of coffee, every time. I also have a hand-pull Gaggia espresso machine from Italy. So it's not like I'm comparing it to crappy drip. With the same beans, I get equal quality, and the aeropress is faster.

shmulkey18 16y ago
The Aeropress is fantastic: it's cheap, easy to use and clean, and portable. It makes fantastic coffee. I'm not an espresso expert, but I think you would have to spend hundreds more to get an espresso machine which can make as good Americano coffee. Spend a few bucks on a burr grinder, however. I bought a Saeco Titan from Costco some time ago for $70 and have been very happy with it.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  I bought a used burr grinder off of Amazon for $40.

euroclydon 16y ago

I'm not sure about the "off the boil" advice for temperature. I read in Cooks Illustrated recently that boiling temperature water makes coffee taste bitter and that it's best to use water between 190F - 205F. I tried this recently, with my usual pour over cone, and found that 190F water made the coffee delicious!

Avshalom 16y ago
by the time you pour the water and it hits/heats the room temperature grounds the water is going to drop several degrees, I could go test it but I suspect >90% of the brewing is at <205F. EDIT: for example when brewing beer my friends and I tend to add the grains when the water is about 10 degrees hotter than we want to mash at.

alrex021 16y ago

I got this Nespresso machine few days ago: http://www.amazon.com/Nespresso-D120-US-BK-NE-Automatic-Single-Serve-Limousine/dp/B002NGNHBS http://www.amazon.com/Nespresso-D120-US-BK-NE-Automatic-Sing... It just simply makes awesome expressos.

whyenot 16y ago

> As most software and creative professionals know, coffee is an important technology for boosting mental acuity and maintaining peak on-the-job performance. There is good evidence that caffeine can increase human performance, but the human body also builds up a tolerance for caffeine very quickly. I wonder how much of the boost people believe they get is from caffeine and how much of it is a placebo effect. According to Wikipedia, 300mg 3x a day for 18 days (approx. 5-8 cups of drip coffee per day) is enough for many individuals to no longer experience any effects of caffeine at all.

bokchoi 16y ago

The best Seattle roast, IMHO, is Vita from Vivace. I just grabbed a bag and it is in the french press now. Absolutely amazing: http://www.espressovivace.com/intro.html http://www.espressovivace.com/intro.html

mmphosis 16y ago

Stop drinking bad coffee. http://thetyee.ca/Life/2009/02/20/BadCoffee/ http://thetyee.ca/Life/2009/02/20/BadCoffee/

borism 16y ago

Coders guide to good coffee? Nah, Russian Tea HOWTO: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1519624 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1519624

jgg 16y ago

I'm not the most cultured coffee drinker, but it's amazing to me what passes as "good" in the US. All the self-proclaimed coffee addicts I know drink either McDonald's or Starbuck's, which taste like lukewarm piss water and burnt coffee bean scraps mixed with 77 different varieties of mint flavoring, respectively. The one time I had coffee that I though was "good" was some sort of expensive French blend. I can't remember the name or taste, as it was a long time ago. I stopped drinking coffee regularly a while ago, along with most soft drinks. I find that not being addled by caffeine/sugar rushes, while drinking lots of water, makes me fairly energetic for most of the day.

dashr 16y ago

Not to be a Danny Downer- because I love my coffee (Philz Ambrosia!) - but drinking lots of coffee greatly increases your chances of colon cancer - especially as you approach your mid 30s. Enjoy that cup a day but learn to like tea too.

Gormo 16y ago
What's the source of that? I found an article on WebMD (http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food) that claims that moderate coffee consumption can actually reduce your risk of colon cancer.
- dashr 16y ago
  Source is my personal doctor told me to cut back cause it was bad for me. But also from personal experience, when I drink a lot of cups per day for several days, my shall remain nameless parts start feeling odd. Doesn't really start till you're in your 30s and later though.

snowbird122 16y ago

I'm curious if I can tell the difference between good coffee and bad. Where can I go in Austin, TX to get a great cup of coffee, and what should I order? If I can't tell the difference between the good stuff and the stuff I usually drink, then there is no need to go through the fuss, however, I'd love to have an awakening.

kentosi 16y ago

Are there any coffee-drinking Sydney hackers here? If so, any recommendations for great coffee around here? I've been to Campos (the Newtown cafe) and it's amazing, but a little hard to get to. http://www.camposcoffee.com.au/ http://www.camposcoffee.com.au/ Not sure of any others.

feint 16y ago

people seem to have forgotten how a real Italian coffee is made - you don't need an expensive machine, and sure as hell don't drip or filter coffee. You use an espresso maker: http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Express-12-Cup-Stovetop-Espresso/dp/B000FDL588/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1279258361&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Bialetti-Express-12-Cup-Stovetop-Espre... This is how my family and the Italians have done it for generations