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Why would anyone willingly hand over their DNA to a third party like this?* 23andME HAS handed your most personal data over to the authorities. *(Same reason

Why would anyone willingly hand over their DNA to a third party like this?* 23andME HAS handed your most personal data over to the authorities. *(Same reason people willingly install wiretaps in their houses aka Alexa and Google Home)

harveywi 9y ago
cf. billions of Facebook users.
ballenf 9y ago
I bought a kit and then never used it because of all the detailed info they required in order to create a profile and the risk you reference. Wasted $$, but still feel like I dodged a bullet by not submitting. Could have created a fake profile and lied on questions, but that didn't seem like a good enough protection. It wouldn't be too hard for a nefarious party to link the results back to me.
- manmal 9y ago
  Tim Ferriss once posted a guide on how to stay 100% anonymous (included tricking the parcel shop staff etc).
  - pgrote 9y ago
    I haven't been able to find it. Can you post a link?
rconti 9y ago
I leave my DNA all over the place.
- amelius 9y ago
  Yes, but nobody knows it's yours.
  - inciampati 9y ago
    It's super easy to find out whose is whose. To get hacked this way all you'd have to do is leave the house.
    - nikcub 9y ago
      Similar to the different concerns between mass surveillance and targeted surveillance It's easy to link a database and profile millions of people. It's much higher effort for them to come and get my DNA.
      - Faark 9y ago
        And they likely don't have to get your specific DNA. Just have to find a single willing relative.
DrHuman 9y ago
What "authorities" have been handed this information? And what would they do with this information that makes it so bad?
- ZoeZoeBee 9y ago
  Authorities === police, and other government agencies. What could they do with this information that makes it so bad? Well, they could do something like familial searching, which seeks to identify the last name of potential suspects through a DNA analysis focusing on the Y chromosome. And a "promising" match from someone who donated their genetic info, could lead to your wrongful arrest... Don't think it could happen, try it already has http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/article_1b3a3f96-d574-59e0-9c6a-c3c7c0d2f166.html http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/article_1b3a3f96...
  - DrHuman 9y ago
    Well that is unsettling. In the article you linked it sounds like Ancestry.com was responsible for working with the police. 23andMe seems to have a better track record on privacy and claims to have resisted requests from law enforcement so far. But I agree that it's not ideal that law enforcement can even make these requests. People should be able to check their genetic health and not have to worry about being wrongfully placed at a crime scene. https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-and-you/23andprivacy-your-data-law-enforcement/ https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-and-you/23andprivacy-your-d...
karllager 9y ago
> 23andME HAS handed your most personal data over to the authorities. Now just wait for some strange shift in power. I hope I do not wake up in ten years, leave my house and am welcomed by the authorities (maybe the Evocops), because my subpar DNA didn't pass some unit test.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  So if there are genetic roundups, why wouldn't they be accompanied by compulsory testing? It's pretty much the same story with milder stuff like insurance. If companies can make money by offering discounts for people with genes they like, the insurance company not having your DNA isn't going to make your insurance any cheaper. Or employment, enough people will share their DNA that it becomes a necessary step towards getting the job. The consequences all flow from allowing society to become hell, not from sharing the DNA.
  - TuringNYC 9y ago
    >> So if there are genetic roundups, why wouldn't they be accompanied by compulsory testing? Because one requires instating mass testing while another requires just gaining permission to an existing treasure trove, albiet a subset.
- BurningFrog 9y ago
  If the Evocops have a bug fix for my lower back pain, my principles would crumble fast.
WillPostForFood 9y ago
for some people: health fear > privacy fear. Wait until you get a little older, and things start going wrong with your body, you'll start doing all sort of crazy stuff that you wouldn't think about in your twenties, like stop drinking beer.
criddell 9y ago
I use Google for email, I have an Amazon Echo, and I'm thinking about trying 23andMe. The best case scenario is that I get utility or enjoyment out of these things. The worst case scenario is... what? What would you say the likely outcome is? Do you think I will regret having an Echo one day?
- sjg007 9y ago
  It'll just be widespread NSA style surveillance.
  - criddell 9y ago
    That's a good point. I've been under this type of surveillance for quite a while now and as far as I know, there haven't been any negative consequences for me.
    - bduerst 9y ago
      Most contrarians here quote nightmare/slippery slope scenarios as to why you don't want it, but in reality, you're more likely to be negatively affected by slipping in the shower. I doubt most of the people intentionally avoiding Alexas and 23andMe also have shower pads that help prevent slipping. This is why I think most of this anxiety comes down to some combination of neo- & techno-phobia, like we saw with GMO crops.
- problems 9y ago
  > Do you think I will regret having an Echo one day? Certainly some people have. A court case recently had Amazon turn over Echo recordings. Similarly, your DNA could be used to place you in relation to a crime scene whether you committed that crime or not. I certainly don't want someone I bumped into earlier to have my DNA on them when their body is found if my DNA is trivially searchable. I'd much rather have them need to go through me and my lawyer before any of that is possible.
  - criddell 9y ago

harveywi 9y ago

cf. billions of Facebook users.

ballenf 9y ago

I bought a kit and then never used it because of all the detailed info they required in order to create a profile and the risk you reference. Wasted $$, but still feel like I dodged a bullet by not submitting. Could have created a fake profile and lied on questions, but that didn't seem like a good enough protection. It wouldn't be too hard for a nefarious party to link the results back to me.

manmal 9y ago
Tim Ferriss once posted a guide on how to stay 100% anonymous (included tricking the parcel shop staff etc).
- pgrote 9y ago
  I haven't been able to find it. Can you post a link?

rconti 9y ago

I leave my DNA all over the place.

amelius 9y ago
Yes, but nobody knows it's yours.
- inciampati 9y ago
  It's super easy to find out whose is whose. To get hacked this way all you'd have to do is leave the house.
  - nikcub 9y ago
    Similar to the different concerns between mass surveillance and targeted surveillance It's easy to link a database and profile millions of people. It's much higher effort for them to come and get my DNA.
    - Faark 9y ago
      And they likely don't have to get your specific DNA. Just have to find a single willing relative.

DrHuman 9y ago

What "authorities" have been handed this information? And what would they do with this information that makes it so bad?

ZoeZoeBee 9y ago
Authorities === police, and other government agencies. What could they do with this information that makes it so bad? Well, they could do something like familial searching, which seeks to identify the last name of potential suspects through a DNA analysis focusing on the Y chromosome. And a "promising" match from someone who donated their genetic info, could lead to your wrongful arrest... Don't think it could happen, try it already has http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/article_1b3a3f96-d574-59e0-9c6a-c3c7c0d2f166.html http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/news/article_1b3a3f96...
- DrHuman 9y ago
  Well that is unsettling. In the article you linked it sounds like Ancestry.com was responsible for working with the police. 23andMe seems to have a better track record on privacy and claims to have resisted requests from law enforcement so far. But I agree that it's not ideal that law enforcement can even make these requests. People should be able to check their genetic health and not have to worry about being wrongfully placed at a crime scene. https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-and-you/23andprivacy-your-data-law-enforcement/ https://blog.23andme.com/23andme-and-you/23andprivacy-your-d...

karllager 9y ago

> 23andME HAS handed your most personal data over to the authorities. Now just wait for some strange shift in power. I hope I do not wake up in ten years, leave my house and am welcomed by the authorities (maybe the Evocops), because my subpar DNA didn't pass some unit test.

maxerickson 9y ago
So if there are genetic roundups, why wouldn't they be accompanied by compulsory testing? It's pretty much the same story with milder stuff like insurance. If companies can make money by offering discounts for people with genes they like, the insurance company not having your DNA isn't going to make your insurance any cheaper. Or employment, enough people will share their DNA that it becomes a necessary step towards getting the job. The consequences all flow from allowing society to become hell, not from sharing the DNA.
- TuringNYC 9y ago
  >> So if there are genetic roundups, why wouldn't they be accompanied by compulsory testing? Because one requires instating mass testing while another requires just gaining permission to an existing treasure trove, albiet a subset.
BurningFrog 9y ago
If the Evocops have a bug fix for my lower back pain, my principles would crumble fast.

WillPostForFood 9y ago

for some people: health fear > privacy fear. Wait until you get a little older, and things start going wrong with your body, you'll start doing all sort of crazy stuff that you wouldn't think about in your twenties, like stop drinking beer.

criddell 9y ago

I use Google for email, I have an Amazon Echo, and I'm thinking about trying 23andMe. The best case scenario is that I get utility or enjoyment out of these things. The worst case scenario is... what? What would you say the likely outcome is? Do you think I will regret having an Echo one day?

sjg007 9y ago
It'll just be widespread NSA style surveillance.
- criddell 9y ago
  That's a good point. I've been under this type of surveillance for quite a while now and as far as I know, there haven't been any negative consequences for me.
  - bduerst 9y ago
    Most contrarians here quote nightmare/slippery slope scenarios as to why you don't want it, but in reality, you're more likely to be negatively affected by slipping in the shower. I doubt most of the people intentionally avoiding Alexas and 23andMe also have shower pads that help prevent slipping. This is why I think most of this anxiety comes down to some combination of neo- & techno-phobia, like we saw with GMO crops.
problems 9y ago
> Do you think I will regret having an Echo one day? Certainly some people have. A court case recently had Amazon turn over Echo recordings. Similarly, your DNA could be used to place you in relation to a crime scene whether you committed that crime or not. I certainly don't want someone I bumped into earlier to have my DNA on them when their body is found if my DNA is trivially searchable. I'd much rather have them need to go through me and my lawyer before any of that is possible.
- criddell 9y ago