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FTC slaps Lenovo on the wrist for selling computers with secret adware
- codedokode 9y agoThis is the problem not only with Lenovo. Many mobile apps try to collect as many information as possible (for example, GPS location or WiFi station ids) and save to their servers. There should be a law explicitly forbidding secret collection of information especially if it is not required for app functioning. I also remember similar case when chinese smartphone manufacturers preinstalled adware on the devices. It was showing ads above browser window to make it look as if it was a part of a webpage (and used Google ads by the way).
- chii 9y agoIf you install an app which shouldn't require those permissions, but it asks for then anyway, then I would be very wary, to the point of not installing. The customer needs to punish those apps by voting with their feet.
- retSava 9y agoThis is in my opinion too weak of a signal to others. Such a deep invasion of user expectations and privacy should not be so easy to get away with, first time or not.
- maxxxxx 9y agoMaybe that's the intended signal.
- tryingagainbro 9y agoHeadline should be: FT allows Lenovo to sell computers with secret hardware again, should they choose to. No one went in jail (try intercepting someone's Https connections) and no crippling fine. Just an agreement that requires consent...you can drive trucks through the loopholes. "Yes, I want to speed up my internet" is one and 90% would click yes /install.
- quuquuquu 9y agoIt's really crazy, isn't it??? The company that makes/sells me a couch doesn't currently install a microphone in the couch, so that they can analyze my conversations and sell my data to advertisers. Should they start trying? All of these tech companies are getting away with it!
- 659087 9y agoComing soon: Amazon Echo Sit
- quuquuquu 9y ago"We are revolutionizing home-based, ergonomic solutions. Relaxtion-as-a-service" Translation "We're selling an overpriced couch. The couch is manufactured by someone else. The microphone gives us your data. We're working on selling that to as many other people as we can."
- dozzie 9y agoLaxation-as-a-service.
- maxxxxx 9y agoDon't give couch manufacturers any ideas! Couches need telemetry too.
- quuquuquu 9y agoDuring the peak of frothy VC investments, our hypothetical couch startup will have the money to hire ML and AI experts. 1) Sell the couch at a loss. 2) Acquire customer voice data. 3) Run it through ML/AI 4) ???? 5) Pivot the company.
- codedokode 9y agoYou can collect even more information: measure weight of a customer (so advertisers know who is more likely to buy food), learn how often he uses a couch.
- raverbashing 9y agoBuying a windows laptop these days seems like putting your hand in an Alligator Gar filled bog (also see the other post about the Synaptics driver) And restoring from the OEM copy is no guarantee it will be clear of all the preinstalled crap
- tempay 9y agoTo save others searching for the other post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15178080 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15178080
- FussyZeus 9y agoI love, love love my Windows desktop (home built BEAST for gaming) but anytime I'm doing work, I have my Macbook at my palms. Unless Apple continues to tank the Macbook (I currently have the Pro 2014 model) I'll never buy a Windows laptop again.
- fortythirteen 9y agoWith only a very small portion of the population able to both understand the implications of this type of tracking and how to circumnavigate it, I often wonder if there will eventually be a negative consequence akin to not establishing credit through purposely getting in debt. In 20 years, will you be blocked from opening certain accounts if the company can't find sufficient mined data on you?
- codedokode 9y agoOr maybe you won't be able to get a job or take a loan if you don't have social network accounts: "are you hiding something?".
- chii 9y ago"no, i just don't want your company to snoop into my personal life"
- eeZah7Ux 9y agoOr entering a country. Oh, wait... next: being blocked from leaving a country.
- lol768 9y agoAgree with the other commenters here that requiring consent and asking for new hardware to be audited isn't really anywhere near enough of a punishment. I've read through the full settlement here: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1523134_lenovo_united_states_agreement_and_do.pdf https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/1523134_len... As far as I can tell they've just been ordered to do things they should've been doing already (security testing, asking for consent). Is anyone familiar enough with the relevant US laws in play here to explain why there was no harsher punishment or fine?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- infogulch 9y agoBecause the FTC has been almost completely declawed. Their powers to protect consumers have been gutted and the whole agency has been reduced to enforcing a few narrowly defined easily bypassed rules, with almost zero powers outside of that.
- sevensor 9y agoPersonally, they've lost my business. I used and loved Thinkpads for many years, but I no longer use them and now recommend against their purchase. Lenovo has a huge trust gap to repair.
- castis 9y agoWhat OS do you run and what machine would you suggest for it instead?
- amiga-workbench 9y agoI stick with ThinkPads old enough to have coreboot support. On the up side you get a proper keyboard, a screen aspect ratio not optimized only for consuming video, cheap spare parts and flawless Linux support.
- lorenzhs 9y agoWhile I agree that Superfish was a disaster, keep in mind that it did not affect the ThinkPad line at all. From what I heard, the consumer and business lines have strong separation inside Lenovo. I have lost all trust in their consumer division, too. But it seems silly to me to discount ThinkPads based on the malware bundled with Lenovo's consumer offerings.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- CaptSpify 9y ago
- rayiner 9y agoFor people wondering why there was no hefty fine, it's probably because the FTC had no authority to impose one. Except with regard to children, the FTC isn't specifically empowered to protect "privacy rights." The FTC brought a complaint against Lenovo under Section 5 of the FTC Act, which addresses "unfair competition" and "unfair practices." Historically, that meant false advertising or other abusive practices set forth in law (e.g. unfair debt collection practices). Under Section 5, civil penalties can only be imposed where a company violates an FTC rule, and does so with knowledge that the conduct violates the FTC rule (typically a Trade Regulation Rule ("TRR")). 15 U.S.C. 45(m)(1)(A). There is no TRR addressing the kind of conduct Lenovo engaged in, nor any statute prohibiting such conduct: https://www.ftc.gov/reports/privacy-data-security-update-2016#rules https://www.ftc.gov/reports/privacy-data-security-update-201.... While the FTC can declare particular practices unfair on a case-by-case basis, without a rule, in that situation it can only issue a cease-and-desist order. 15 U.S.C. 45(m)(1)(B).
- tedunangst 9y agoHN: I don't like secret laws. Also HN: I don't like when they don't invent secret laws to punish people I'm mad at.
- dmoy 9y agoHow is a law giving the ftc more power here a secret law?
- ergothus 9y agoPlaying devil's advocate - the power we'd be granting is the power to apply fines when you broke rules you didn't know existed, because they are case-by-case determinations.
- tedunangst 9y agoDid the law exist before Lenovo shipped the fish? Did Lenovo know about it?
- dingo_bat 9y agoMicrosoft should charge Lenovo $100 extra for installing windows. After all Lenovo's shenanigans are ruining Microsoft's market.
- emiliobumachar 9y agoTangent: supposed Microsoft decided to do just that. Would the anti-monopoly rulings from the 90's stop it?
- walterbell 9y agoThinkpads with Windows sent (send?) daily usage data to Lenovo, unless you disable the reporting app. This was documented by Lenovo: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13300357 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13300357
- sogen 9y agoThat's not enough! We demand MORE adware, more adware!
- yuhong 9y agoConsumer vs business computers is one of my favorite topics. Even with Lenovo, Superfish is not the only example.