7 ms·

>>“Work is work, and not everything needs to be about politics,” he said. While he sees liberal colleagues who sit nearby don’t seemingly need to filter their c

• zimpenfish 9y ago
  > If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, [many of which involve punitive action against the least well off / most marginalised in society] > you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)
  • jimbokun 9y ago
    "Amazing, really, that people think less of you when you specifically say you think less of others (which is the core conservative stance.)" And here you are, thinking "less of others" in the very same sentence in which you decry it.
    • zimpenfish 9y ago
      I didn't decry thinking less of others - that would be hypocritical because I publically and loudly think less of anyone who supports the GOP and/or Tories (check my comment history). I do decry people who bleat about being thought less of when their own stance is thinking less of people - it's your petard, your lookout.
  • jfk13 9y ago
    What a narrow-minded parody -- no, perhaps "deliberate misrepresentation" would be more correct -- of what "conservative" means.
    • mfringel 9y ago
      Your elected representatives own your brand. To some extent, it doesn't matter what you believe, for purposes of the label you adopt.
    • zimpenfish 9y ago
      https://www.gop.com/platform/ https://www.gop.com/platform/ > the cornerstone of the family is natural marriage, the union of one man and one woman. Thinking less of LGBTQ people. > American taxpayers should not be forced to fund abortion. Thinking less of women by denying them bodily autonomy. It's all there, written down, in their own damned party manifesto.
  • ams6110 9y ago
    I'm conservative, I do not think less of anyone else as a human being (I may well think less of their opinions, actions, or behaviors, but that's not at all the same thing). Your viewpoint that "thinking less of others" is a "core" conservative value very much implies that you don't really know any conservatives, and are just parroting the party line from within your bubble.
    • zimpenfish 9y ago
      > just parroting the party line I am indeed just parroting the GOP party line. Their policies comprehensively demonstrate that they think less of others - LGBTQ people, women, poor people, POC, immigrants are all "lesser" in the eyes of the GOP.
    • plandis 9y ago
      I have quite a few gay friends who think a core conservative value is to oppress them. How could they not? The Republican Party to this day actively tries to strip them of rights.
  • kbsletten 9y ago
    Actually, most of us conservatives have a core stance of "don't trust anything you care about to the government." Nothing more, nothing less. Liberals love to parade out the worst of us because then no "reasonable" person wants to be on that team. To be honest, I don't want to be on that team, but I'm not going to give up because I really believe there's a better way. Better to vote my conscience and try to improve the party reputation buy being a good neighbor than give in so the McCarthys don't accuse me of being racist.
    • zimpenfish 9y ago
      > Liberals love to parade out the worst of us The Republican Party. > try to improve the party reputation I'm afraid you've got quite a way to go there.
      • tristor 9y ago
        See, now you're just being a troll. The person you replied to gave you a well reasoned response and you're being flippant in return. This is not the level of discourse I'd hope to see on HN.
      • dang 9y ago
        Would you please not engage in partisan flamewar here regardless of how right your position is? It's destructive of what we're hoping for here: please see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
  • tristor 9y ago
    " (which is the core conservative stance.)" Except that it isn't. People conflate all sorts of ideas about particular issues with the larger overarching political ideology. It's entirely possible to be conservative, be pro-gay marriage, pro abortion, pro legalization of marijuana, etc. There are some specific issues which the conservative ideology does fall squarely on, such as a resounding no to universal healthcare, but these are few and far between. The conservative ideology in the most simplistic terms is "a smaller central government with less power is a better government". Modern conservative and liberal ideologies are nothing more than an extension of federalism and anti-federalism from the founding of the nation. Conflating this ideology with some of the worst people who claim it is unfair and divisive without cause or care. This, in fact, is the exact thing the person you're responding to is pointing out. You are claiming conservative = "a belief in punitive actions against marginalized members of society" (paraphrasing you slightly for clarity). This simply isn't true, by any measure. It's a nice rhetorical soundbite to raise the ire of your political fellows as a clarion call, but it's not factually accurate and espousing this viewpoint about conservatives normalizes and encourages the type of political divisiveness we are seeing today. Fun story, if we go by the last 5 years (honestly if we go by the last 100 years, but that's a deeper discussion about ideology shifts related to specific key issues) the majority of political violence occurring in the US is being done in the name of liberal ideologies, with much irony I presume. This very position you are putting forth is actually rather anti-liberal, but it's not conservative either. As a shock to all, there are more than two sides to a cube.
    • zimpenfish 9y ago
      > the majority of political violence occurring in the US is being done in the name of liberal ideologies Gerrymandering, Voter suppression, bias against POC, denial of bodily autonomy for women, denial of basic rights to LGBTQ - all done in the name of conservative ideologies.
      • tristor 9y ago
        None of those things (with the exception of voter suppression) could be remotely classified as "political violence". While I find the idea of denying basic human rights to anyone repugnant, it is not violent in and of itself. "Political violence" is violence perpetrated to reach political goals. For something to be political violence, it first must be violence, only then does the political angle even matter. I would also broadly separate "politicized violence" from "political violence". The first could be a war that is being discussed politically, the latter is physically assaulting someone because they hold a political view you disagree with. Let's not play funny with words, it doesn't help the quality of the discussion. You're clearly not ignorant, so don't act that you are for the purpose of trolling. Not to mention, basically NONE of the things you brought up are part of the conservative ideology. You're focusing on "issues", which have nothing to do with ideologies. Ideologies are deeper, and determine individual's stances on issues. An individual can hold an ideology and have differing stances on an issue from other individuals with the same ideology. Something helpful to consider might be that Republican != conservative and Democrat != liberal. While the terms are often conflated, it is wrong and done by pundits /specifically/ to confuse the conversation. Don't play into the same game.
• koolba 9y ago
  > As someone who falls on the Liberal side of the spectrum, this bothers me more than almost anything else regarding modern day politics. If you fall in line with the "right" (left) side, you are allowed to say any number of disparaging, mean, hateful, or ignorant comments without fear of consequence - as long as it's aimed at the political right-wing. If you mention you are a conservative or hold conservative views, you are aligned with the worst of the worst and anything you say is inherently wrong. It has a name: double standard I like to think of it like weak minded people who love to dish out insults but accuse you of being the most indecent person on the planet if you repeat their exact words back to them. > The liberal echo chamber is just as bad, if not worse, than the conservative's version of the same thing. I'd lean towards worse. I don't recall anyone attempting to publicly shame me for not being "conservative enough". I'd wager that most liberals have encountered some version of that.
  • ythn 9y ago
    > I like to think of it like weak minded people who love to dish out insults but accuse you of being the most indecent person on the planet if you repeat their exact words back to them. Yeah, but you'll always have rationalization on why one side thinks it's okay: "It's okay in my case because I'm intolerant of intolerance" "It's okay in my case because I'm bigoted against bigotry"
    • heurist 9y ago
      Today, the right is stereotyped as tolerant of intolerance and the left is stereotyped as intolerant of intolerance. Both are untrue, but anonymity on the internet makes it seem like one vile person you disagree with is following you around spewing hate. When people are experiencing a rush of adrenaline from an argument, even online, many lose the ability to distinguish the words and actions of individuals from those of groups or to recognize subtlety and shades of gray. Everyone is arguing all the time these days, everyone has an opinion on everything, this huge adrenaline bubble is forming and it's going to pop one way or another...
  • ikeyany 9y ago
    > I don't recall anyone attempting to publicly shame me for not being "conservative enough". Proof that you did not grow up in a very religious community.
• MichaelGG 9y ago
  And the result is just as predictable. People with conservative views will stay quiet and get more isolated and annoyed. They'll identity with other "underdogs" that are being attacked, even if they wouldn't otherwise really agree with their positions. Then everyone acts all surprised when a more extreme candidate shows up to overwhelming support.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• DanielBMarkham 9y ago
  Some of my saddest friends, at least when it comes to expressing themselves politically, are my liberal friends who have beliefs just a bit outside the left-norm. Things like owning firearms, or support for free speech even when it's ugly. These folks are shunned by both groups. One guy told me once he had friends of 20 years that wouldn't let him in the house when they found out he owned a gun. But the question one asked that I keep getting back to is this: would the Civil Rights movement stand a chance today in the world many in the left wants to set up? Another commenter mentioned being assaulted by a ROTC cadet for expressing liberal views. As bad as that is, I'm much more supportive of open fisticuffs, along with a jail sentence for whomever started it, than creating systems of political suppression that many major SV corps seem intent on doing. It doesn't get more fucked up and evil than that -- and I have no doubt in my mind that the people doing it are nice and well meaning. All the worse.
  • nxsynonym 9y ago
    I identify with your left-of-norm liberal friends. Most of my views sit closer to the middle than either pole - but I can't actually discuss this with any of my "liberal" friends. If I say anything that isn't a complete regurgitation of a leftist facebook meme, I'm suddenly an "alt-right sympathizer" (real quote). It's made it so that whenever politics comes up at all I just check out of the conversation. It's hard because I really do enjoy debating and talking about politics, but nobody wants to debate anymore. Everyone wants to be correct and shame the other side into changing their views.
    • wasted_intel 9y ago
      Those friends sound kind of terrible. Good friends can have rational, respectful discussions, even if they disagree.
  • yahna 9y ago
    Tell you what, I'll organize a group that beats the shit out of you when you express a viewpoint and we can see how you feel about it.
• hsod 9y ago
  The liberal echo chamber is a problem, but I don't think it's anywhere near the scale of problem as things like climate change, healthcare, consumer protection rollbacks, voter suppression, mass incarceration and deportation. These issues are more important than whether someone feels comfortable wearing a MAGA hat at Google. Politics isn't baseball. The stakes are real, more so for some than for others. If you want to express a political view at work then the people to whom you are expressing it have a right to dislike you for it.
  • ubertaco 9y ago
    > If you want to express a political view at work then the people to whom you are expressing it have a right to dislike you for it. Do those people have a right to take action to negatively impact your career/livelihood/ability-to-provide-for-your-family because of your political views?
    • ZeroGravitas 9y ago
      If your political views negatively impact their career/livelihood/ability-to-provide-for-your-family then it would be a violation of the golden rule if they couldn't.
      • thescribe 9y ago
        I feel like this is a strange position, because every single political issue does this to someone. Raise my property tax for schools? Time to blacklist you, I needed that money for elder care.
• yahna 9y ago
  I don't think the liberal echo chamber is anywhere near as bad.