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I'm not even sure.. arithmetic really needs learned as much anymore... as a dev I rarely use my times table... if I need to calculate something I'll pull up a c

I'm not even sure.. arithmetic really needs learned as much anymore... as a dev I rarely use my times table... if I need to calculate something I'll pull up a console and go into a repl and just ask php or ruby to calculate it for me... I know HOW the calculation works and why, but I don't need to know and remember times tables. I like the idea of thinking outside the box on how to teach math and science, as I feel modern schools were built with factories and the industrial complex in mind, not technology, arts, and sciences.

csydas 9y ago
The how is what is supposed to be being taught to children at the moment and why the math classes are shifting away from times tables and such. Rote memorization doesn't produce as good of a result as understanding how the calculations work on more intuitive level. I can't find it at the moment since I'm in the metro with poor connection but there was an article about how geometry was taught in such a way to teach kids to distrust their own common sense and instinct by relying on Byzantine rules from the getgo instead of letting kids naturally explore geometry and get a feel for shapes, angles, etc. (with the rules coming later)
- chii 9y ago
  The move away from rote can have an unexpected draw back. Fast mental estimation requires rote learning , otherwise you draw a blank. over-reliance on tooling like calculators have made mental skills like that decrease over the years.
khedoros1 9y ago
As a dev, I use my multiplication tables pretty constantly, especially for quick estimates using approximate numbers. I probably didn't need to know them as early as I did...
kagamine 9y ago
Start watching Countdown, the UK numbers and letters game. You will need your times tables for the math part. There is even a comedy version (same games with added silliness) to keep the interest of 'younger' audiences. Youtube search : 8 out of 10 cats does countdown. It's fun and funny. Here is the 2017 final of the 'proper, serious' Countdown, also on YT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-VdiufVWrw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-VdiufVWrw
- bitwize 9y ago
  > There is even a comedy version (same games with added silliness) I seem to remember one where the hostess wrote the numbers on a huge dick she'd drawn on the board. Thus giving new meaning to "Numberwang".
userbinator 9y ago
if I need to calculate something I'll pull up a console and go into a repl and just ask php or ruby to calculate it for me I'm guessing you don't spend 100% of your time in front of a computer, and even if you do, in the time it takes you to do that, someone who can actually do mental arithmetic will have approximately calculated that problem and several more, because they can stay in the "flow" of thinking about the bigger problem. As someone who can, it's astounding how many developers out there can't --- pulling out the calculator for computations as simple as 12+51 or 6x128. It reminds me of the "developers don't need to learn how to type quickly" argument --- yes, you can be productive without, but you'll quickly find yourself to be in a handicap in contrast to others who can write, rewrite, and mentally estimate and compute the results in their head several times faster, saving much time in compiling/running/debugging/etc.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  Being able to perform mental arithmetic even approximately is a very helpful skill - buy 6 items at £12.80 and get charged £110? Easily catchable with a quick "6x10+25%" mental approximation. (I'm fairly sure there's a famous book about this kind of thing but for some reason my brain is stuck on "How To Solve It" by Polya which I don't think is correct.)

csydas 9y ago

The how is what is supposed to be being taught to children at the moment and why the math classes are shifting away from times tables and such. Rote memorization doesn't produce as good of a result as understanding how the calculations work on more intuitive level. I can't find it at the moment since I'm in the metro with poor connection but there was an article about how geometry was taught in such a way to teach kids to distrust their own common sense and instinct by relying on Byzantine rules from the getgo instead of letting kids naturally explore geometry and get a feel for shapes, angles, etc. (with the rules coming later)

chii 9y ago
The move away from rote can have an unexpected draw back. Fast mental estimation requires rote learning , otherwise you draw a blank. over-reliance on tooling like calculators have made mental skills like that decrease over the years.

khedoros1 9y ago

As a dev, I use my multiplication tables pretty constantly, especially for quick estimates using approximate numbers. I probably didn't need to know them as early as I did...

kagamine 9y ago

Start watching Countdown, the UK numbers and letters game. You will need your times tables for the math part. There is even a comedy version (same games with added silliness) to keep the interest of 'younger' audiences. Youtube search : 8 out of 10 cats does countdown. It's fun and funny. Here is the 2017 final of the 'proper, serious' Countdown, also on YT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-VdiufVWrw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-VdiufVWrw

bitwize 9y ago
> There is even a comedy version (same games with added silliness) I seem to remember one where the hostess wrote the numbers on a huge dick she'd drawn on the board. Thus giving new meaning to "Numberwang".

userbinator 9y ago

if I need to calculate something I'll pull up a console and go into a repl and just ask php or ruby to calculate it for me I'm guessing you don't spend 100% of your time in front of a computer, and even if you do, in the time it takes you to do that, someone who can actually do mental arithmetic will have approximately calculated that problem and several more, because they can stay in the "flow" of thinking about the bigger problem. As someone who can, it's astounding how many developers out there can't --- pulling out the calculator for computations as simple as 12+51 or 6x128. It reminds me of the "developers don't need to learn how to type quickly" argument --- yes, you can be productive without, but you'll quickly find yourself to be in a handicap in contrast to others who can write, rewrite, and mentally estimate and compute the results in their head several times faster, saving much time in compiling/running/debugging/etc.

zimpenfish 9y ago
Being able to perform mental arithmetic even approximately is a very helpful skill - buy 6 items at £12.80 and get charged £110? Easily catchable with a quick "6x10+25%" mental approximation. (I'm fairly sure there's a famous book about this kind of thing but for some reason my brain is stuck on "How To Solve It" by Polya which I don't think is correct.)