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I'm not saying it doesn't suck for westerners. What I am saying is that from my view, which is of course constrained by all kinds of limits, my best guess hypot

I'm not saying it doesn't suck for westerners. What I am saying is that from my view, which is of course constrained by all kinds of limits, my best guess hypotheses that I am putting 100% of my money on in the form of all my investments, is that it doesn't yet suck for the vast majority of Chinese in their own minds. Like a drum roll, we've been forced to give 10-20% wage increases every single year to keep my talent. Engineers that worked for me four years ago started out riding the bus. Now, they've all bought a new car at some point. Several make more than I did at 25. They are not clamoring for democracy.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
It sucks for Chinese also. To know their life expectancies are being sacrificed for cheaper exports...really sucks. That under the dome video was censored very quickly for a reason.
- musage 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Dome_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Dome_(film)
DashRattlesnake 9y ago
> They are not clamoring for democracy. That's understandable, given that's against the law and would probably be a prison sentence.
- yorwba 9y ago
  Actually, there are plenty of propaganda posters for "democracy" (民主). You just can't go and demand actual input beyond electing your local party official.
simonh 9y ago
Someone else mentioned inflation. This is what I said to my wife recently on a trip to see her family in China. Everyone is as complaining about inflation. Inflation has gone crazy for over a decade, but since I first went there average wages in China have gone up by about 8x. The thing is they can't have high wages without High inflation. If wages go up then the workers in the factory making stuff get paid more, the truck driver that takes the goods to the shop is paid more, the shop assistants get paid more, the shop owner pays more rent. Therefore they have to charge more for their goods. But this is not a bad thing. Meanwhile the exchange rate has made foreign goods twice as expensive. But if wages are up 8x then those foreign goods are actualy 4x more affordable. Hence all the foreign cars. It's all just the Chinese economy converging on global norms. When I first went, cars were an impossible luxury for most Chinese and in my wife's city the streets were bare except for taxis, busses and bicycles. Now there are traffic jams everywhere. The problem is China has already almost reached international norms. The disparity that has allowed it to grow so fast is almost equalised. Factory wages are increasing because most of the untapped rural labour has been tapped. Within 10 years Chinese will be much better off, but China will have all the same problems every other advanced economy has and its economic miracle will have played out. EDIT: Wolfram says bigger multiples than I thought. Wow, things change fast.
musage 9y ago
> it doesn't yet suck for the vast majority of Chinese in their own minds For me that says more about them than about China.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

It sucks for Chinese also. To know their life expectancies are being sacrificed for cheaper exports...really sucks. That under the dome video was censored very quickly for a reason.

musage 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Dome_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under_the_Dome_(film)

DashRattlesnake 9y ago

> They are not clamoring for democracy. That's understandable, given that's against the law and would probably be a prison sentence.

yorwba 9y ago
Actually, there are plenty of propaganda posters for "democracy" (民主). You just can't go and demand actual input beyond electing your local party official.

simonh 9y ago

Someone else mentioned inflation. This is what I said to my wife recently on a trip to see her family in China. Everyone is as complaining about inflation. Inflation has gone crazy for over a decade, but since I first went there average wages in China have gone up by about 8x. The thing is they can't have high wages without High inflation. If wages go up then the workers in the factory making stuff get paid more, the truck driver that takes the goods to the shop is paid more, the shop assistants get paid more, the shop owner pays more rent. Therefore they have to charge more for their goods. But this is not a bad thing. Meanwhile the exchange rate has made foreign goods twice as expensive. But if wages are up 8x then those foreign goods are actualy 4x more affordable. Hence all the foreign cars. It's all just the Chinese economy converging on global norms. When I first went, cars were an impossible luxury for most Chinese and in my wife's city the streets were bare except for taxis, busses and bicycles. Now there are traffic jams everywhere. The problem is China has already almost reached international norms. The disparity that has allowed it to grow so fast is almost equalised. Factory wages are increasing because most of the untapped rural labour has been tapped. Within 10 years Chinese will be much better off, but China will have all the same problems every other advanced economy has and its economic miracle will have played out. EDIT: Wolfram says bigger multiples than I thought. Wow, things change fast.

musage 9y ago

> it doesn't yet suck for the vast majority of Chinese in their own minds For me that says more about them than about China.