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Droid X actually self-destructs if you try to mod it
As an Android advocate/fan this _really_ rubs me the wrong way.
- philwelch 16y agoThe article blames Motorola, which is fair, but I'd cast a look at Verizon, too. Their history of crippling phones is long and sordid.
- ROFISH 16y agoIt's probably not too far from the truth. Free tethering is probably causing a hamper on their system.
- Supermighty 16y agoThe main reason Verizon would want something like this is to prevent un-paid for tethering. But this doesn't stop that. You can still get root on a Moto ROM and still install a tethering app.
- lanstein 16y agoOr just install PdaNet, phone doesn't even need to be rooted.
- maqr 16y agoAre the comments on mobile crunch for real or just a pack of trolls? I wonder what the actual public perception will be. Is this "Motorola stops would-be cell phone hackers!" or "Motorola puts self-destruct sequence in your phone!"?
- l0nwlf 16y agoThat's Motorola's policy and it's clearly documented ( http://community.developer.motorola.com/t5/MOTODEV-Blog/Custom-ROMs-and-Motorola-s-Android-Handsets/ba-p/4224 http://community.developer.motorola.com/t5/MOTODEV-Blog/Cust... ) "Securing the software on our handsets, thereby preventing a non-Motorola ROM image from being loaded, has been our common practice for many years." It's really depressing :(
- veemjeem 16y agoAnd people say Apple is evil... at least Apple has never put fuses like this into their hardware. If Motorola had any kind of market share, they'd take evil to a whole new level.
- stcredzero 16y agoNo fuses, but there was a rumor that they would be overwriting mods in the future. (On-air updates.)
- tetha 16y agoI really like how companies don't understand that the possibility to modify and fiddle with a device makes this device much more attractive for the right customers lke us hackers.
- brk 16y agoTrue, but you represent probably .1% of their total customer base. The bigger issue at hand is that the common hardware hacker is such a rare beast these days...
- Setsuna 16y agoTrue, but also consider the people who go to their friendly neighborhood hacker to get their device "unlocked".
- stcredzero 16y agoHackers have been online tastemakers to some extent, but not so much in the hardware realm. This is why the companies don't care. I wonder why this is the case?
- detst 16y agoWhat do they gain by doing this? I just don't get it. I have no problem with them not supporting hacking their devices but to go out of the way to prevent it (let alone bricking it) doesn't make any sense. We wouldn't accept it from a computer manufacturer, so why with a phone? EDIT: I know most here will get it but this drives me crazy because it stifles progression. Did Motorola every think that their next best engineers might be the kids that are so passionate about this stuff that they want to tinker with their phone in these ways?
- jsz0 16y agoMotorola has the OEM mindset. Verizon is their customer. Verizon wants people to pay for tethering. Maybe GPS navigation. Maybe they don't want high bandwidth apps allowed on their 3G network. Since there's basically no market for unlocked phones in the US companies like Motorola and HTC can't really stand up to the carriers. It'd be suicide. (HTC is doing the same types of things by digitally signing the boot loader code on their handsets)
- Zak 16y agoAs I understand it, Motorola/Verizon did not do this with the original Droid. It seems strange that they would start now. Bootloader signing, though annoying and, I think inappropriate for a manufacturer to do is non-destructive. Intentionally bricking a phone is another thing entirely: it's vandalism.
- Supermighty 16y agoThe original Droid was developed in partnership with Google. Chances are this had something to do with the openness of the original.
- detst 16y agoYes, they were quite closely involved in that one. Which begs the question of will Google do something about this. I'm not sure this is something they are really looking to take a stand on but bricking a device is going too far. Maybe they should revoke license to Google apps on this phone until that feature is fixed.
- mandeepdhami 16y agoSadly, this is not new. See "Tivoization" at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization
- Supermighty 16y agoI was planning on getting the Droid X until I learned of this. It's a slap in the face and unfortunately most people won't even realize it. Slowly innovation and growth in smart phones will slow and no one will realize why. They won't realize they were cutting of their own noses. How popular was Moto's Linux phone before android? Not as popular as they are, that's for sure. They need the hackers and tinkers to push the platform forward. Moto and Verizion sure has heck won't do it.
- lenni 16y agoNot quite as evil, but T-Mobile Germany is preventing me from flashing my HTC Hero and at the same time delay official updates by months. Suffice to say, I won't ever buy a phone from a mobile phone company again - they suck at software!
- nailer 16y agoThe only phone you actually have control over is a Nexus One. People still have to root HTC's other phones, Motorola phones, iPhones, and just about every other usable consumer phone device.
- dandrews 16y agoThere's also Nokia's N900, which runs Maemo - a Debian derivative.
- nailer 16y agoIndeed it does, but I don't count the N900 or OpenMoko, having used both, as usable general purpose phones.
- regularfry 16y agoUpvoted. I have one, and it's hands-down the best phone I've ever owned, precisely because it's rampantly open.
- masomenos 16y agoThere was also a developer version of the G1/Dream -- http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/12/18/Android-Diary http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2008/12/18/Android-Di...
- elblanco 16y agoGood, don't buy one and send a message via lack of dollars.
- meunierc 16y agoWhen are you kids going to learn? If you have to root it, hack it, jailbreak it or otherwise mod it against the terms of purchase which you signed voluntarily when purchasing, why are you surprised when your candy is removed from you? If it doesn't do the job and the maker doesn't want it to do the job, it's his problem. Don't act like a spoiled brat and give in to the cat-and-mouse game of hacking and counterhacking. Vote with your dollars.
- dododo 16y agothis is the source of the article: http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/droid-x-discussion/3330-how-droid-x-locked-down-let-me-tell-you-what-i-know.html http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/droid-x-discussion/3330-h... from the source, the things checked before blowing the fuse are: "the firmware information (what we call ROMS), the kernel information, and the bootloader version" it seems like if you get any kind of corruption, in any part of the above components, for any amount of time, your phone becomes a brick. corruption happens: my previous phone was a motorola. i stopped using it because it would randomly redirect phone calls to other numbers in the phone book (but it was usable for a long period despite this). motorola phones' get corruption (which keep essential functions working), but now any temporary, minor problem results in permanent, intentional bricking.
- slmichalk 16y agoThe article mentions that it must be fixed at the hardware level by Motorola. I wonder if there is something that can be done to disable this, such as jumping two pins on the main PCB. A steady hand and a small soldering iron can work wonders.
- GrandMasterBirt 16y agoI've had motorola phones randomly call people. And not let me hang up my phone calls until I pull the battery. At least they didn't take 10 minutes to boot like the blackberry.
- harry 16y agoI also dislike this move by Motorola. It's like using tamper proof screws and violates the idea from Make: "If you can't open it, you don't own it." DIY/Makers and anyone else who ends up repairing fancy devices (phones, after market stereo head units, various lab equipment) have constantly fought with this type of thing. It comes in forms of bios that self destruct, glue that's only purpose is to break something internal if a panel is removed, or tamper proof screws on replacement parts. See the Makers "Bill of Rights" - http://cdn.makezine.com/make/MAKERS_RIGHTS.pdf http://cdn.makezine.com/make/MAKERS_RIGHTS.pdf (pdf). I tend to judge companies on whether or not their products are outright MADE to prevent me from being able to fix it myself. If I can't, I won't buy products from them again. As @meunierc said, "vote with your dollars."
- joezydeco 16y agoOkay. We get it. For chrissakes, Motorola itself said "go buy something else if you want to hack Android". What else do you want?
- harry 16y agoThe commercial sector to produce some products with longevity and ease of repair as features.
- protomyth 16y agoThe commercial sector has learned that certain product segments are filled with people who are not "into" the product (e.g. a lamp is a lamp). Thus, Wal-Mart-type stores rule. Most people buying these products do not make their decisions based on longevity or ease of repair. Motorola has actually been honest enough about this to tell you to buy from someone else.
- harry 16y agoI appreciate that Motorola is honest. It is still a PITA to tell a distant in-law/customer/acquaintance that I can't fix THEIR phone because of some dumb thing the company decided 2 years ago and has since replaced and forgotten about. The Moto decision is just a tiny thing that probably won't affect much in the grand scheme of things. I just have an issue with the fundamentals. It's a hot button issue for me. ^_^
- ant5 16y agoI don't really care, and I certainly wouldn't change my recommendation of a phone to a consumer based on this. But read to the end before you downvote :) As a vendor, dealing with hacks, jailbreaks, and other such things is remarkably expensive. Consumers (not developers) wind up installing these things without understanding the implications of what they're doing. The OS breaks, the applications break, things go haywire, things go bad. The hardware vendor, the OS vendor, and the application vendor all take the blame and have to deal with the support costs. We get support e-mails all the time that can be traced to iOS jailbreak-induced issues. It's a massive pain in the neck that, understandably, a vendor just doesn't want to deal with. Moreover, as a consumer, it's incredibly wasteful to be spending so much time on trying to break into undocumented systems that the vendors just aren't interested in supporting. Instead, I want to support vendors that provide more open platforms for a more premium price. It costs more to produce an open, supported platform, and I don't mind paying a little bit for an Android development phone that allows me to experiment with OS-level work, or something like the Ubiquity RouterStation Pro[0] as an alternative to consumer wireless routers. The advantage to me is that hacking the device is supported and I don't have to fight with a consumer manufacturer -- a company with very different priorities to my own -- to do it. [0] http://www.ubnt.com/rspro http://www.ubnt.com/rspro
- dinedal 16y agoThat's ridiculous. To make the over used car analogy, this is if you were to replace the engine on a brand new car you bought with a different one, only to have the car destroy itself, and the new engine you just put in it. It's one thing to not support the new engine when it has problems. It's another thing to destroy property that someone bought from you after the sale if they use it in a way you don't approve. I understand it costs more to support an open platform. But it's a choice to support that open platform, and Motorola doesn't have to do that, they can hang up on Joe Average who did installs the mod just like a dealership would do so on anyone who screwed up putting a completely different engine in their brand new car.
- ant5 16y agoMotorola doesn't have to do that, they can hang up on Joe Average who did installs the mod ... Cars aren't phones. The cost of installing a new engine is very different than the cost of installing a phone hack, the set of people likely to do so (and the associated cost to the manufacturer and other vendors) isn't the same, and there's going to be a lot more consumer awareness about what they're doing by replacing the engine. And really -- modern cars are locked down.
- rufugee 16y agoDamn it. Just cancelled my order (placed yesterday). Funny thing is I was switching from AT&T to Verizon to get it, so now Verizon has not only lost my $200 but my future monthly fees as well. Now I'm considering the Nexus One, but then I wonder when the Nexus Two might come out? From a hardware standpoint (aside from the 8GB internal storage, HDMI out and bigger screen) the DroidX doesn't look that much better. Thoughts?
- elblanco 16y agoThe HTC incredible is basically the same hardware as the Nexus One. I'm pretty happy with mine so far.
- Kadin 16y agoCan you get FroYo on the Incredible without any jailbreaking or other messing around? I've been thinking of getting a Nexus One specifically because of FroYo (and its wireless tethering -- which finally puts it on feature parity with my old Nokia E61i), but it's fairly expensive and I'm loath to drop $500+ on something if there's something better on the market or about to come on the market.
- elblanco 16y ago"Jailbreaking" doesn't exist on Android phones (for the most part cough Motorola). Installing firmwares does. According to HTC, Froyo is set for auto-update on the Incredible in Q3 sometime. Or you can just install one of the firmwares that's out on the web and get it today.
- fragmede 16y agoOn Android, you have to 'root' the phone in some fashion in order to install firmware. On a couple Android phones, the rooting process is 'supported', but on most models, rooting relies on exploiting the phone in the same way a jailbreak would.
- gamble 16y agoI can just imagine the reaction if it had been Apple releasing a phone that self-destructed when you modded it. Since this is Android - and Android is 'open' - expect the story to fall into news-cycle oblivion by next week. Where's the outrage now?
- nooneelse 16y agoThere are posts on various Android related forums speaking against this, numerous blog posts, and some people have canceled their orders... so your implicit charge of hypocrisy falls entirely flat in the face of reality. Care to retract it?
- gamble 16y agoThere are always at least a half-dozen anti-Apple posts on HN at any given time. I see one post about this, which is already falling off the radar. If this had been about an Apple product, people would be working themselves into a frothy geek-rage.
- zzzmarcus 16y agoThe efuse paranoia has, to a large degree, already been debunked. DroidLife[0] quotes BGR[1] as saying: "The current theory being put forth by the non-alarmists in the Android hacking community suggests that the DROID X is locked in a similar manner to the Milestone. Though it may be difficult to crack, and may lead to many hairs being pulled out, mucking with the bootloader probably won’t brick your phone." [0]http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/enough-with-the-efuse-talk-already/ http://www.droid-life.com/2010/07/15/enough-with-the-efuse-t... [1]http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/15/reality-check-modding-the-droid-x-may-not-lead-to-a-bricked-phone/ http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/15/reality-check-modd...
- dolinsky 16y agoIt's a shame there isn't a way to place blinking tags around this comment, arrows pointing at it. Until this efuse problem has been proven 'in the wild' it's nothing more than a possibility, and from the BGR article (I searched this thread first to see if someone had already posted it) it seems this efuse has been in place in previous Droid models but has never been used.
- GrandMasterBirt 16y agoThat is a dangerous statement dolinsky my man. That means that we should buy the phone only to realize we got a gimped device for the purposes of verizon deciding which software features to lock so they can charge us 10 bucks a month for each.
- borisk 16y agoCool, so now a virus can potentially destroy phones on hardware level.
- atiw 16y agoWow, Google is giving away their OS for free, and Motorola is locking it up. It's not even theirs to lock up. We PAID for it....do they not get the concept of money or what?
- joeycfan 16y agoYou know what? We're gonna have to install Linux or OpenBSD on these damn phones after all....