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I dislike how they immediately lump "hackers, drugs and porn" together as bad things. Hackers and others within that category are great. Thanks to hackers you

I dislike how they immediately lump "hackers, drugs and porn" together as bad things. Hackers and others within that category are great. Thanks to hackers you can get full access to devices that would otherwise be locked down. Thanks to hackers you can take full control of your media content, playing it without constraints and on any device. Drugs are a huge market, let's tax it. Most people buying drugs are likely harmless members of society. We're wasting time and money chasing down buyers, sellers, and service managers. There's an absurd amount of people in jail for engaging in fully benign activities. Porn is a huge industry which pretty much everyone likes. A few rotten apples don't mean you have a rotten tree. Oh, we also waste a lot of money chasing down prostitutes and the like. I'm sure many sex workers would love to continue what they're doing without having to worry about the risk of cops showing up.

JulianMorrison 9y ago
The porn that's a bad thing is child porn, rape porn, and violence porn.
- JupiterMoon 9y ago
  Really none of these should be called porn+. They are various forms of abuse imagery and are both crimes and evidence of crimes. + (Assuming the rape and violence are real not just actors)
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    In a few years lots of the edgier stuff will just be very realistic computer-generated imagery, but I expect the puritans will be making the same argument? In fact, even if the government set up some sort of bureau of approved CP (maybe they would enforce that all legal CP could be built from source?) lots of people would still want it outlawed...
    - alsetmusic 9y ago
      > In a few years lots of the edgier stuff will just be very realistic computer-generated imagery, but I expect the puritans will be making the same argument? In fact, even if the government set up some sort of bureau of approved CP (maybe they would enforce that all legal CP could be built from source?) lots of people would still want it outlawed... I lack a citation, but I believe even mock child porn is already illegal in the US.
    - snakeanus 9y ago
      Countries like the UK and Canada already consider drawn pornography of characters that look underage illegal. Most Japanese anime and manga pornography (even extremely unrealistic hand-drawn instances of it) is already illegal in these countries, see http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-convicted-over-illegal-7958896 http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-co... for example.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - etplayer 9y ago
        Not only the UK an Canada, but Australia, NZ and some European countries too have implemented what I must say is a heinous law against freedom of expression through drawing. This hideous trend shows that governments have little care. It was also illegal in all of the US at the country level, however this was stricken down by SCOTUS rightly in my judgement as a violation of the first amendment. There are still state laws against it.
  - khedoros1 9y ago
    > They are various forms of abuse imagery and are both crimes and evidence of crimes. They can be that and still be porn to some people.
- TheAceOfHearts 9y ago
  Those are the bad apples.
  - rad88 9y ago
    Bad apples means tiny minority. The proportion of porn being exchanged on Tor marketplaces that involves children or abuse is not tiny.
- jack1243star 9y ago
  You mean child abuse, rape and violence. Sexual kinks are too often the scapegoat used.
- snakeanus 9y ago
  The act of creating them is bad, the porn itself is not. It's just data that harms nobody.
  - AlexeyBrin 9y ago
    Think about what you are claiming ... by consuming child/rape/violent porn for example, you indirectly encourage the production of new data.
    - snakeanus 9y ago
      How so?
      - rad88 9y ago
        By indicating you want it and being a participant in the market for it. There are people who, knowing you are like them and enjoy that sort of thing, will make it for you. To make you happy. It's that sick.
        snakeanus 9y ago
        > There are people who, knowing you are like them and enjoy that sort of thing, will make it for you. To make you happy. I doubt that anyone would make child pornography in order to satisfy someone else. I would be pretty sure that one would do it either for a huge financial gain, personal satisfaction, or both. The people who upload it for free would still rape children even if they were not able to upload it anywhere. Considering that I would say that this argument is even worse than saying that the media should stop reporting terrorist attacks to disencourage the terrorists from performing terrorist acts (assuming that they do it for personal fame or to scare people). The first could be solved by catching people who are buying and selling. However none of these can be solved by catching people who simply watch or distribute but do not create nor buy child pornography - catching them would be arresting them for a thoughtcrime.
        etplayer 9y ago
openasocket 9y ago
> Hackers and others within that category are great. Thanks to hackers you can get full access to devices that would otherwise be locked down. Thanks to hackers you can take full control of your media content, playing it without constraints and on any device. You're ignoring a lot of the other things hackers do. Like, you know, break into systems they don't own for profit. On the dark web, you've got DDoS as a service and botnet as a service sites.
- snakeanus 9y ago
  > break into systems they don't own What is wrong with that? The owners of these systems should have made sure that they don't run shitty and (vulnerable/old versions of their) programs. > On the dark web, you've got DDoS as a service and botnet as a service sites. These things exist on the normal web as well.
  - openasocket 9y ago
    What kind of Machiavellian logic is that? I'm able to hack you, therefore there's nothing wrong with doing so? What about in the physical world? If you don't know how to defend yourself, is there anything wrong with me mugging you?
    - snakeanus 9y ago
      > I'm able to hack you, therefore there's nothing wrong with doing so? Yes > What about in the physical world? Actions in the physical world actually harm people, something which is not true for the virtual world and can be trivially be avoided.
      - openasocket 9y ago
        > Actions in the physical world actually harm people, something which is not true for the virtual world I can drain your bank accounts by hacking you, how is that not actual harm? > and can be trivially be avoided Leaving aside the argument about whether securing yourself is "trivial", that doesn't make it OK! If you leave your door unlocked, that doesn't mean it's OK for me to come in and steal your TV.

JulianMorrison 9y ago

The porn that's a bad thing is child porn, rape porn, and violence porn.

JupiterMoon 9y ago
Really none of these should be called porn+. They are various forms of abuse imagery and are both crimes and evidence of crimes. + (Assuming the rape and violence are real not just actors)
- jessaustin 9y ago
  In a few years lots of the edgier stuff will just be very realistic computer-generated imagery, but I expect the puritans will be making the same argument? In fact, even if the government set up some sort of bureau of approved CP (maybe they would enforce that all legal CP could be built from source?) lots of people would still want it outlawed...
  - alsetmusic 9y ago
    > In a few years lots of the edgier stuff will just be very realistic computer-generated imagery, but I expect the puritans will be making the same argument? In fact, even if the government set up some sort of bureau of approved CP (maybe they would enforce that all legal CP could be built from source?) lots of people would still want it outlawed... I lack a citation, but I believe even mock child porn is already illegal in the US.
  - snakeanus 9y ago
    Countries like the UK and Canada already consider drawn pornography of characters that look underage illegal. Most Japanese anime and manga pornography (even extremely unrealistic hand-drawn instances of it) is already illegal in these countries, see http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-convicted-over-illegal-7958896 http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-co... for example.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - etplayer 9y ago
      Not only the UK an Canada, but Australia, NZ and some European countries too have implemented what I must say is a heinous law against freedom of expression through drawing. This hideous trend shows that governments have little care. It was also illegal in all of the US at the country level, however this was stricken down by SCOTUS rightly in my judgement as a violation of the first amendment. There are still state laws against it.
- khedoros1 9y ago
  > They are various forms of abuse imagery and are both crimes and evidence of crimes. They can be that and still be porn to some people.
TheAceOfHearts 9y ago
Those are the bad apples.
- rad88 9y ago
  Bad apples means tiny minority. The proportion of porn being exchanged on Tor marketplaces that involves children or abuse is not tiny.
jack1243star 9y ago
You mean child abuse, rape and violence. Sexual kinks are too often the scapegoat used.
snakeanus 9y ago
The act of creating them is bad, the porn itself is not. It's just data that harms nobody.
- AlexeyBrin 9y ago
  Think about what you are claiming ... by consuming child/rape/violent porn for example, you indirectly encourage the production of new data.
  - snakeanus 9y ago
    How so?
    - rad88 9y ago
      By indicating you want it and being a participant in the market for it. There are people who, knowing you are like them and enjoy that sort of thing, will make it for you. To make you happy. It's that sick.
      - snakeanus 9y ago
        > There are people who, knowing you are like them and enjoy that sort of thing, will make it for you. To make you happy. I doubt that anyone would make child pornography in order to satisfy someone else. I would be pretty sure that one would do it either for a huge financial gain, personal satisfaction, or both. The people who upload it for free would still rape children even if they were not able to upload it anywhere. Considering that I would say that this argument is even worse than saying that the media should stop reporting terrorist attacks to disencourage the terrorists from performing terrorist acts (assuming that they do it for personal fame or to scare people). The first could be solved by catching people who are buying and selling. However none of these can be solved by catching people who simply watch or distribute but do not create nor buy child pornography - catching them would be arresting them for a thoughtcrime.
      - etplayer 9y ago

openasocket 9y ago

> Hackers and others within that category are great. Thanks to hackers you can get full access to devices that would otherwise be locked down. Thanks to hackers you can take full control of your media content, playing it without constraints and on any device. You're ignoring a lot of the other things hackers do. Like, you know, break into systems they don't own for profit. On the dark web, you've got DDoS as a service and botnet as a service sites.

snakeanus 9y ago
> break into systems they don't own What is wrong with that? The owners of these systems should have made sure that they don't run shitty and (vulnerable/old versions of their) programs. > On the dark web, you've got DDoS as a service and botnet as a service sites. These things exist on the normal web as well.
- openasocket 9y ago
  What kind of Machiavellian logic is that? I'm able to hack you, therefore there's nothing wrong with doing so? What about in the physical world? If you don't know how to defend yourself, is there anything wrong with me mugging you?
  - snakeanus 9y ago
    > I'm able to hack you, therefore there's nothing wrong with doing so? Yes > What about in the physical world? Actions in the physical world actually harm people, something which is not true for the virtual world and can be trivially be avoided.
    - openasocket 9y ago
      > Actions in the physical world actually harm people, something which is not true for the virtual world I can drain your bank accounts by hacking you, how is that not actual harm? > and can be trivially be avoided Leaving aside the argument about whether securing yourself is "trivial", that doesn't make it OK! If you leave your door unlocked, that doesn't mean it's OK for me to come in and steal your TV.