4 ms·

Bitcoin have no real world use case

noir_lord 9y ago
Seems to be really effective at separating people from their money (though not all of them, when the music stops someone will be left without a chair).
ThomPete 9y ago
That depends om where in the world you live.
mrep 9y ago
Bitcoin does seem to be the best payment technology for online illegal transactions. Albeit, one could argue those shouldn't be 'real' in the first place.
- chenster 9y ago
  Monero could be a better choice as it is completely untraceable.
  - tehlike 9y ago
    yeah, i am planning to invest/speculate in it. along with zcash/dash/etc.
- andy_ppp 9y ago
  No, it’s a store of value like a rolex or a pot of gold. Except much more fungible. And it increases in value relatively every time new “real” money is created. I don’t agree that it’s just for illegal transactions.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    It's not just for illegal activity, it just seems like that's a huge percentage of its current use. Not unlike Tor, sadly. It may be more fungible at the moment, but is it anywhere near as safe? Gold goes up and down but nowhere near to the degree we've seen with bitcoin. Add a minimum it's useful in manufacturing so even if the price crash there would still be people to buy it. Rolexes are useful, they have an intrinsic value/use. Bitcoin is only valuable as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin could effectively disappear. I'm not saying it looks likely at the moment but even if your holdings are very large all it takes is the market to decide to stop accepting/exchanging it. I think that's FAR more likely than gold or Rolexes.
    - andy_ppp 9y ago
      Does the FUD you just wrote invalidate the utility I suggested? If, maybe, someday etc. Bitcoin could be worthless. This is very true but money, of any kind, is only worth what people believe it’s worth. And in case you didn’t know, cash is also used for illegal activity...
      - MBCook 9y ago
        I'm trying to suggest that it isn't a proven store of value. Just because something has value today doesn't mean it will tomorrow. Gold has centuries of history behind it, Rolex has maybe 100 years. Cash is thousands of years old. Bitcoin has had a high value for a couple of years. I'm not trying to suggest it's Beanie Babies or Pokémon cards. Obviously those were never useful as real currency and bitcoin can buy things today. But I don't think it's fair to compare it to gold or cash. And you're right, cash is used for illegal activity. But a HUGE chunk of it's use is for normal legal activity. There's no real way to know, but I'd be very interested to find out what percentage of bitcoin use is for legal activity. It's a very popular on the dark web because it's so much harder to trace than the normal credit card. They are legal stores on the "normal" internet that take it, but do they process a lot of transactions compared to the illegal stuff? Calling something FUD usually means that you think someone is mounting some sort of propaganda campaign against someone/something. That's not me, but the literal meaning fits. I'm afraid people will convert money they can't afford to lose into bitcoin even though we don't know how stable it is long term. I'm uncertain that it can continue to be used as transaction volumes increase. I doubt it's as impenetrable as people think because the US government (among others) is capable of throwing a LOT of computer power at getting enough hashing to manipulate the block chain.
        omarchowdhury 9y ago
        According to a report by J.P. Morgan Chase, just 0.0002% of Overstock’s revenue last year were conducted in Bitcoin. Overstock announced BTC support 3 years ago, in 2014. Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/merchants-arent-accepting-bitcoin-2017-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/merchants-arent-accepting-bit...
eswat 9y ago
Tell that to the bitcoin remit startups in the developing world.
brownbat 9y ago
The global remittance market transferred more than half a trillion dollars last year, typically at exorbitant, near monopolistic rents.[0] How big of an industry are electronic payments? Anyone have a guess? I couldn't even find a number I was confident was a reasonable approximation. Unfathomably large. A unit of exchange as volatile as BTC is not an obvious ideal in the US. But what about in Venezuela, compared to local currency? What's the value of an asset that holds or appreciates, or even bounces around wildly in value in comparison to a currency with triple digit inflation? If all it does is put a stop to the grossest malfeasance by the dozen worst central banks in the world, how would we calculate that as a value? It's reasonable to believe that BTC isn't the ideal solution for any of these, but with the established markets, even if it is destined to just take over a minority 1% of those sectors, then it's currently far undervalued. If it has a shot at preventing governments from causing mass starvation by printing money and passing it to cronies,[1] then it's a net win for humanity. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/aug/18/global-remittance-industry-choking-billions-developing-world https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/aug/18/g... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1gUR8wM5vA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1gUR8wM5vA

Seems to be really effective at separating people from their money (though not all of them, when the music stops someone will be left without a chair).

ThomPete 9y ago

That depends om where in the world you live.

mrep 9y ago

Bitcoin does seem to be the best payment technology for online illegal transactions. Albeit, one could argue those shouldn't be 'real' in the first place.

chenster 9y ago
Monero could be a better choice as it is completely untraceable.
- tehlike 9y ago
  yeah, i am planning to invest/speculate in it. along with zcash/dash/etc.
andy_ppp 9y ago
No, it’s a store of value like a rolex or a pot of gold. Except much more fungible. And it increases in value relatively every time new “real” money is created. I don’t agree that it’s just for illegal transactions.
- MBCook 9y ago
  It's not just for illegal activity, it just seems like that's a huge percentage of its current use. Not unlike Tor, sadly. It may be more fungible at the moment, but is it anywhere near as safe? Gold goes up and down but nowhere near to the degree we've seen with bitcoin. Add a minimum it's useful in manufacturing so even if the price crash there would still be people to buy it. Rolexes are useful, they have an intrinsic value/use. Bitcoin is only valuable as a medium of exchange. Bitcoin could effectively disappear. I'm not saying it looks likely at the moment but even if your holdings are very large all it takes is the market to decide to stop accepting/exchanging it. I think that's FAR more likely than gold or Rolexes.
  - andy_ppp 9y ago
    Does the FUD you just wrote invalidate the utility I suggested? If, maybe, someday etc. Bitcoin could be worthless. This is very true but money, of any kind, is only worth what people believe it’s worth. And in case you didn’t know, cash is also used for illegal activity...
    - MBCook 9y ago
      I'm trying to suggest that it isn't a proven store of value. Just because something has value today doesn't mean it will tomorrow. Gold has centuries of history behind it, Rolex has maybe 100 years. Cash is thousands of years old. Bitcoin has had a high value for a couple of years. I'm not trying to suggest it's Beanie Babies or Pokémon cards. Obviously those were never useful as real currency and bitcoin can buy things today. But I don't think it's fair to compare it to gold or cash. And you're right, cash is used for illegal activity. But a HUGE chunk of it's use is for normal legal activity. There's no real way to know, but I'd be very interested to find out what percentage of bitcoin use is for legal activity. It's a very popular on the dark web because it's so much harder to trace than the normal credit card. They are legal stores on the "normal" internet that take it, but do they process a lot of transactions compared to the illegal stuff? Calling something FUD usually means that you think someone is mounting some sort of propaganda campaign against someone/something. That's not me, but the literal meaning fits. I'm afraid people will convert money they can't afford to lose into bitcoin even though we don't know how stable it is long term. I'm uncertain that it can continue to be used as transaction volumes increase. I doubt it's as impenetrable as people think because the US government (among others) is capable of throwing a LOT of computer power at getting enough hashing to manipulate the block chain.
      - omarchowdhury 9y ago
        According to a report by J.P. Morgan Chase, just 0.0002% of Overstock’s revenue last year were conducted in Bitcoin. Overstock announced BTC support 3 years ago, in 2014. Source: http://www.businessinsider.com/merchants-arent-accepting-bitcoin-2017-7 http://www.businessinsider.com/merchants-arent-accepting-bit...

eswat 9y ago

Tell that to the bitcoin remit startups in the developing world.

brownbat 9y ago

The global remittance market transferred more than half a trillion dollars last year, typically at exorbitant, near monopolistic rents.[0] How big of an industry are electronic payments? Anyone have a guess? I couldn't even find a number I was confident was a reasonable approximation. Unfathomably large. A unit of exchange as volatile as BTC is not an obvious ideal in the US. But what about in Venezuela, compared to local currency? What's the value of an asset that holds or appreciates, or even bounces around wildly in value in comparison to a currency with triple digit inflation? If all it does is put a stop to the grossest malfeasance by the dozen worst central banks in the world, how would we calculate that as a value? It's reasonable to believe that BTC isn't the ideal solution for any of these, but with the established markets, even if it is destined to just take over a minority 1% of those sectors, then it's currently far undervalued. If it has a shot at preventing governments from causing mass starvation by printing money and passing it to cronies,[1] then it's a net win for humanity. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/aug/18/global-remittance-industry-choking-billions-developing-world https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/aug/18/g... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1gUR8wM5vA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1gUR8wM5vA