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Since we are on the topic of idiom, this one rings true: “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down”. Unless you’re the boss of the company you rarely stand t

Since we are on the topic of idiom, this one rings true: “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down”. Unless you’re the boss of the company you rarely stand to profit from problem solving or creative thinking — and usually speaking up will be detrimental to you in some way. Are American companies that different? The few places I've worked software engineers didn't get bonuses, only the people in sales did. Software engineers are seen as a resource.

skybrian 9y ago
Depends where you work? Yearly bonuses seem pretty common in Silicon Valley. (Or other compensation like stock options.)
bm1362 9y ago
Two NYC startups I've worked at have bonuses in the contracts. 10/20% based on performance with modifiers each way.
- chris11 9y ago
  How is performance generally measured for dev positions though?
  - bonzini 9y ago
    Mentoring, helping with customers issues, architecting new features, etc.
  - bm1362 9y ago
    Peer and management feedback was used for the perf reviews.
hn_throwaway_99 9y ago
Companies I've worked for treat engineers very well, and good engineers are highlighted and fast-tracked for promotions.
aidenn0 9y ago
It varies a lot; I've met SWEs that tripled their pay by switching jobs. My starting pay was more than double that of someone of similar talent to myself who ended up at a different company. My lowest offer coming out of college was a $30k 1 year contract in 2005. Needless to say I didn't accept that one.
kbenson 9y ago
It may not be bonuses exactly, but pointing to initiatives you've started that were adopted by the company, or problems you've found and fixed, is good ammunition when angling for a raise or promotion in Western companies. I have a feeling the bigger problem is keeping someone up the management tree from you from stealing the credit (and depending on how many levels of management there are, at least some of that will likely happen, and that's no necessarily a bad thing, managers are judged by the accomplishments of the people under them). This article makes it sound like China in fundamentally different in that respect.
adventured 9y ago
> Are American companies that different? The few places I've worked software engineers didn't get bonuses, only the people in sales did. Software engineers are seen as a resource. People in sales don't get a bonus because they're not viewed as a resource, they get a bonus because they hit a sales target for eg the year and their pay is often determined in part through sales goals. All employees are generally viewed as a resource by management. It's not uncommon for software engineers to get an annual bonus, that's particularly true if things are going well and it's also commonly true for any higher value employees (software engineers commonly earn 2x to 4x the median income in the US).
PhantomGremlin 9y ago
Are American companies that different? There's a little more creative thinking in American companies, but people are still people. Which means you need to tread very carefully or you will quickly acquire an almost invariably fatal reputation as "not a team player".
jdboyd 9y ago
Not getting a bonus is a bit different from actually being punished for creative thinking.

skybrian 9y ago

Depends where you work? Yearly bonuses seem pretty common in Silicon Valley. (Or other compensation like stock options.)

bm1362 9y ago

Two NYC startups I've worked at have bonuses in the contracts. 10/20% based on performance with modifiers each way.

chris11 9y ago
How is performance generally measured for dev positions though?
- bonzini 9y ago
  Mentoring, helping with customers issues, architecting new features, etc.
- bm1362 9y ago
  Peer and management feedback was used for the perf reviews.

hn_throwaway_99 9y ago

Companies I've worked for treat engineers very well, and good engineers are highlighted and fast-tracked for promotions.

aidenn0 9y ago

It varies a lot; I've met SWEs that tripled their pay by switching jobs. My starting pay was more than double that of someone of similar talent to myself who ended up at a different company. My lowest offer coming out of college was a $30k 1 year contract in 2005. Needless to say I didn't accept that one.

kbenson 9y ago

It may not be bonuses exactly, but pointing to initiatives you've started that were adopted by the company, or problems you've found and fixed, is good ammunition when angling for a raise or promotion in Western companies. I have a feeling the bigger problem is keeping someone up the management tree from you from stealing the credit (and depending on how many levels of management there are, at least some of that will likely happen, and that's no necessarily a bad thing, managers are judged by the accomplishments of the people under them). This article makes it sound like China in fundamentally different in that respect.

adventured 9y ago

> Are American companies that different? The few places I've worked software engineers didn't get bonuses, only the people in sales did. Software engineers are seen as a resource. People in sales don't get a bonus because they're not viewed as a resource, they get a bonus because they hit a sales target for eg the year and their pay is often determined in part through sales goals. All employees are generally viewed as a resource by management. It's not uncommon for software engineers to get an annual bonus, that's particularly true if things are going well and it's also commonly true for any higher value employees (software engineers commonly earn 2x to 4x the median income in the US).

PhantomGremlin 9y ago

Are American companies that different? There's a little more creative thinking in American companies, but people are still people. Which means you need to tread very carefully or you will quickly acquire an almost invariably fatal reputation as "not a team player".

jdboyd 9y ago

Not getting a bonus is a bit different from actually being punished for creative thinking.