7 ms·

There is a shortage of workers in as much as there is a shortage of BMW 7-series sedans for under $30k. I looked everywhere at that price. Massive shortage.

jdavis703 9y ago
This is true in certain cases, but not all. I just offered an unemployed family member (and recent computer science grad) a freelance opportunity worth $100 an hour to build out a simple e-commerce site. They didn't want the work. I think part of the problem is that you can have a lot of "fun" these days for very cheap (video games, YouTube, etc). Maybe it's time for us to reexamine why people don't even want high-paying jobs.
- petraeus 9y ago
  "I'll pay you $100/hr but the whole budget is 5 hours"
  - Danihan 9y ago
    Is there a word for laugh-cringing..? So spot on.
- notfromhere 9y ago
  >why people don't even want high-paying jobs. I'm gonna guess there's two sides to that story
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- quantumhobbit 9y ago
  I'm in a pretty small secondary market and was recently advised by someone who knows what he is talking about to never accept less than $200/hr for contract work. That is the going rate around here and accepting less signals that you don't know what you are doing. Perhaps the $100/hr isn't as much as you think it is. More so if you are somewhere expensive like San Francisco or New York.
  - PaulHoule 9y ago
    Many shops I know that charge $200/hr charge $200/hr to a customer and pay a developer $50/hr and then proceed to subtract value from the project because of agency considerations.
  - stephenhuey 9y ago
    Care to share which secondary market you're in?
  - shortoncash 9y ago
    Can you hint at your market? I'm in a sizable market and my competitors are in the 125-150 range. I think I produce better work, but my first few major projects that lasted a few years are only now winding down and I'm out seeking new work. I'd like to experiment with different pricing strategies with the positive reputation I've accumulated.
    - quantumhobbit 9y ago
      I'm in Richmond VA.
- TuringNYC 9y ago
  Its all fun and games until you have a family...then it is difficult to have 3 roommates to an apartment, you have massive healthcare premiums, deductibles and you find that 70% of the tech jobs are in a metro area where your salary doesn't pay for more than a 1br apt for your family. ...but yes, our entertainment costs are fairly inexpensive. Too bad there are so many other things to pay for.
  - thrownblown 9y ago
    This. Now i'm divorced, but I got to keep the rent controlled apartment in Russian Hill, with the roommates. Ex and kid moved to Sacramento and commutes in to her grad school classes at SF State.
  - jedberg 9y ago
    > then it is difficult to have 3 roommates to an apartment Well technically you still have the roommates, they just make a mess everywhere and you have to cover their rent every month.
- yahna 9y ago
  It's entirely possible this person just felt like they have other, better, options. Maybe they don't want to be a web dev, maybe they want regular work vs the uncertainty of consulting, maybe they felt like they weren't up to the job. > I think part of the problem is that you can have a lot of "fun" these days for very cheap (video games, YouTube, etc). Not even really sure what that means? Isn't this like talking about pro athletes or rock stars?
ikeyany 9y ago
We need to bring in cheaper, more desperate H1-BMWs from overseas.
- monksy 9y ago
  We need to start bringing back more American-BMWs. Those foreign BMWs are taking our cars!
  - mmmpop 9y ago
    I recall Buick trying that about a decade ago without much success.
stale2002 9y ago
If going to the doctor for a checkup costed you 20K out of pocket, would you consider there to be a "shortage" of doctors? How about if it costs a 100$ per loaf of bread? I'd considered that to be a shortage. Even if supply is technically meeting demand.
- tunetine 9y ago
  No, and I'm not sure why. Maybe because doctors have unlimited demand and are considered more highly skilled?
  - stale2002 9y ago
    How about 100$ bread? Is that a shortage? People literally starving to death, because they can't pay for food? But supply is meeting demand at that point, right?
    - basseq 9y ago
      But supply is meeting demand at that point, right? It implies a shortage, because of the price point. Because demand far outstrips supply, which drives price up.
      - stale2002 9y ago
        And now to bring things full circle, if tech salaries are very high, doesn't this ALSO imply a shortage of programmers, as demand is far outstripping supply?
        thanksgiving 9y ago
        I'd say no. We can't compartmentalize things like this. I fully support bringing in foreign talent but the logic is flawed. I want lower wages across the economy but the conversation must start in the board room. Nobody, other than the investor, should be making more than a certain multiplier of the minimum wage. The CEO who got fired from HP and went on to be the CEO at Oracle? Is there a shortage of CEOs? I'm sure if you look within your organization, you'll find at least one person willing to bite the bullet and become your next CEO if you need. Sorry if this was a little off topic. I feel uneasy about our growing inequality in our economy but we can't fix it outside of the boardroom. Did you know that board members get paid? I surely didn't until not too long ago. Why do they get paid? I mean I'm not talking compensation for travel. I'm talking six figure compensation. Do we have a shortage of people who are willing to sit on your board?

jdavis703 9y ago

This is true in certain cases, but not all. I just offered an unemployed family member (and recent computer science grad) a freelance opportunity worth $100 an hour to build out a simple e-commerce site. They didn't want the work. I think part of the problem is that you can have a lot of "fun" these days for very cheap (video games, YouTube, etc). Maybe it's time for us to reexamine why people don't even want high-paying jobs.

petraeus 9y ago
"I'll pay you $100/hr but the whole budget is 5 hours"
- Danihan 9y ago
  Is there a word for laugh-cringing..? So spot on.
notfromhere 9y ago
>why people don't even want high-paying jobs. I'm gonna guess there's two sides to that story
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
quantumhobbit 9y ago
I'm in a pretty small secondary market and was recently advised by someone who knows what he is talking about to never accept less than $200/hr for contract work. That is the going rate around here and accepting less signals that you don't know what you are doing. Perhaps the $100/hr isn't as much as you think it is. More so if you are somewhere expensive like San Francisco or New York.
- PaulHoule 9y ago
  Many shops I know that charge $200/hr charge $200/hr to a customer and pay a developer $50/hr and then proceed to subtract value from the project because of agency considerations.
- stephenhuey 9y ago
  Care to share which secondary market you're in?
- shortoncash 9y ago
  Can you hint at your market? I'm in a sizable market and my competitors are in the 125-150 range. I think I produce better work, but my first few major projects that lasted a few years are only now winding down and I'm out seeking new work. I'd like to experiment with different pricing strategies with the positive reputation I've accumulated.
  - quantumhobbit 9y ago
    I'm in Richmond VA.
TuringNYC 9y ago
Its all fun and games until you have a family...then it is difficult to have 3 roommates to an apartment, you have massive healthcare premiums, deductibles and you find that 70% of the tech jobs are in a metro area where your salary doesn't pay for more than a 1br apt for your family. ...but yes, our entertainment costs are fairly inexpensive. Too bad there are so many other things to pay for.
- thrownblown 9y ago
  This. Now i'm divorced, but I got to keep the rent controlled apartment in Russian Hill, with the roommates. Ex and kid moved to Sacramento and commutes in to her grad school classes at SF State.
- jedberg 9y ago
  > then it is difficult to have 3 roommates to an apartment Well technically you still have the roommates, they just make a mess everywhere and you have to cover their rent every month.
yahna 9y ago
It's entirely possible this person just felt like they have other, better, options. Maybe they don't want to be a web dev, maybe they want regular work vs the uncertainty of consulting, maybe they felt like they weren't up to the job. > I think part of the problem is that you can have a lot of "fun" these days for very cheap (video games, YouTube, etc). Not even really sure what that means? Isn't this like talking about pro athletes or rock stars?

ikeyany 9y ago

We need to bring in cheaper, more desperate H1-BMWs from overseas.

monksy 9y ago
We need to start bringing back more American-BMWs. Those foreign BMWs are taking our cars!
- mmmpop 9y ago
  I recall Buick trying that about a decade ago without much success.

stale2002 9y ago

If going to the doctor for a checkup costed you 20K out of pocket, would you consider there to be a "shortage" of doctors? How about if it costs a 100$ per loaf of bread? I'd considered that to be a shortage. Even if supply is technically meeting demand.

tunetine 9y ago
No, and I'm not sure why. Maybe because doctors have unlimited demand and are considered more highly skilled?
- stale2002 9y ago
  How about 100$ bread? Is that a shortage? People literally starving to death, because they can't pay for food? But supply is meeting demand at that point, right?
  - basseq 9y ago
    But supply is meeting demand at that point, right? It implies a shortage, because of the price point. Because demand far outstrips supply, which drives price up.
    - stale2002 9y ago
      And now to bring things full circle, if tech salaries are very high, doesn't this ALSO imply a shortage of programmers, as demand is far outstripping supply?
      - thanksgiving 9y ago
        I'd say no. We can't compartmentalize things like this. I fully support bringing in foreign talent but the logic is flawed. I want lower wages across the economy but the conversation must start in the board room. Nobody, other than the investor, should be making more than a certain multiplier of the minimum wage. The CEO who got fired from HP and went on to be the CEO at Oracle? Is there a shortage of CEOs? I'm sure if you look within your organization, you'll find at least one person willing to bite the bullet and become your next CEO if you need. Sorry if this was a little off topic. I feel uneasy about our growing inequality in our economy but we can't fix it outside of the boardroom. Did you know that board members get paid? I surely didn't until not too long ago. Why do they get paid? I mean I'm not talking compensation for travel. I'm talking six figure compensation. Do we have a shortage of people who are willing to sit on your board?