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The tech sector is the worst at this. The skills we test for are the ones that can be figured out in about a month, and the ones we don't test for are the ones

The tech sector is the worst at this. The skills we test for are the ones that can be figured out in about a month, and the ones we don't test for are the ones that need to be learned over a lifetime

avoutthere 9y ago
Well said. I've been telling people for years that tech sector interviews select for the wrong skill sets.
- pgwhalen 9y ago
  What skill sets should they select for?
  - existencebox 9y ago
    Having done a good handful of interviews, I tend to look for "generic problem solving" (not in the sense of trick questions, but in the sense of running through ambiguous engineering and mixed social/engineering scenarios to see how they'd move forward) communication skills (the ability to communicate the above effectively, talk about past work, problems, successes) and frankly track record. (this is obviously harder for new hires so you look for things like coursework, projects, even successes in other lines of work can demonstrate someone's professionalism and capability) You may note that these are all primarily "soft skills" and I would hope this is the takeaway from my ramble. My experience has been that it's often easier for a hire to pick up the technical rather than the nontechnical side of things. Depending on the level of the job, of course you have to filter for a certain level of competency as well, but I can usually get a good sense of that within the questions I ask above. When I get someone to really start talking about "what have I succeeded/failed at; why; what would I do different" I tend to find I can get a decent read on if they're bullshitting me or not.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Are you hiring programmers/developers or people like sys admins? It sounds like the latter, I can't imagine anyone hiring the former claiming dev skills are easy to pick up.
      - WalterSear 9y ago
        I think they are talking about picking up unfamiliar tools and languages that are reasonably close to their existing skillset rather than 'learning to code'.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Maybe, evaluating a dev is tricky, judging them on soft skills alone would lead to many false positives and negatives.
        WalterSear 9y ago
        Sure. I think the parent is implying that this evaluation is what is flawed, and overly driven by a focus on the superficial layers of technology. So, for instance, a Reactjs developer fresh out of bootcamp gets considered over a veteran Angular developer, 'because they know React.'
      - xemdetia 9y ago
        I use a similar criteria for programmers/developers, if you have sound fundamentals in troubleshooting and working through a (technical) problem on your own you are more useful than someone who after hiring lacks those skills. The learning curve of any dev job is a sequence of problem solving steps to get to the technical knowledge required to speak of the code accurately. If they are not willing or able to do that work without handholding and you don't have time to handhold it's probably not going to work as well than someone who can do this independently. If you haven't encountered someone who is unwilling to even look at a makefile/build/ide setting page without assistance you might not see the use of it.
      - deleted 9y ago
  - UnpossibleJim 9y ago
    In my experience, a lot of skill tests in the tech sector look for a specific set of skills that a CEO has read about, that are the new skills du jour, and not the skill set they actually need. It comes down to money people coming in the tech sector because there is money there and putting their trust in other money peoples, while treating the people that make the tech sector run like an inexhaustible, cheap resource. People have heard that there is a "gold rush" in the tech sector without actually understanding the product. It's an obvious money grab and isulting when you go into a job interview that needs a small subset of programming skills and they "require" a math degree, programming experience, design experience and are willing to pay a junior developer salary (even though you are managing a team of two or three) because you "get resume cred for working at our big name company/get in on the ground floor of tgis awesome start up"...... well, that's the west coast anyway. The ego over here is truly amazing.
  - bitbang 9y ago
    What skill sets a person has (provided it's related in some way to the open position) is less important than how quickly they can adapt and acquire new skill sets.
    - jayd16 9y ago
      By this logic, no one should hire senior developers as they are just a waste of money.
      - stale2002 9y ago
        Being a senior dev is more about high level soft skills and architecture skills, as opposed to knowing the intricacies of whatever programming language the company uses. Coding syntax can be learned to master level in a couple weeks. "designing software" and "managing a project" skills cannot.
        dkhenry 9y ago
        Just to pile on, I have had people who complained that they should have been a senior dev because they knew the most about algorithms and the internals of compilers, languages, libraries, and CPU's. Those same people couldn't communicate that knowledge to others and couldn't design complex systems containing multiple independent components, but they felt since they had strong technical skills that was all they needed.
  - hueving 9y ago
    Implementing small algorithms in a vacuum.
corporateslave3 9y ago
Google and FB know this, the problem is that its far too inefficient for them to screen for those hard earned skills. The algorithms tests are pretty close to IQ tests that you can study for. For mass hiring of decently intelligent employees, they are actually very effective. Worst comes to worst, you put the bad employee on a PIP or boring project and just hire someone else. Large corporations have definitely thought through this.

The tech sector is the worst at this. The skills we test for are the ones that can be figured out in about a month, and the ones we don't test for are the ones that need to be learned over a lifetime

avoutthere 9y ago

Well said. I've been telling people for years that tech sector interviews select for the wrong skill sets.

pgwhalen 9y ago
What skill sets should they select for?
- existencebox 9y ago
  Having done a good handful of interviews, I tend to look for "generic problem solving" (not in the sense of trick questions, but in the sense of running through ambiguous engineering and mixed social/engineering scenarios to see how they'd move forward) communication skills (the ability to communicate the above effectively, talk about past work, problems, successes) and frankly track record. (this is obviously harder for new hires so you look for things like coursework, projects, even successes in other lines of work can demonstrate someone's professionalism and capability) You may note that these are all primarily "soft skills" and I would hope this is the takeaway from my ramble. My experience has been that it's often easier for a hire to pick up the technical rather than the nontechnical side of things. Depending on the level of the job, of course you have to filter for a certain level of competency as well, but I can usually get a good sense of that within the questions I ask above. When I get someone to really start talking about "what have I succeeded/failed at; why; what would I do different" I tend to find I can get a decent read on if they're bullshitting me or not.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Are you hiring programmers/developers or people like sys admins? It sounds like the latter, I can't imagine anyone hiring the former claiming dev skills are easy to pick up.
    - WalterSear 9y ago
      I think they are talking about picking up unfamiliar tools and languages that are reasonably close to their existing skillset rather than 'learning to code'.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Maybe, evaluating a dev is tricky, judging them on soft skills alone would lead to many false positives and negatives.
        WalterSear 9y ago
        Sure. I think the parent is implying that this evaluation is what is flawed, and overly driven by a focus on the superficial layers of technology. So, for instance, a Reactjs developer fresh out of bootcamp gets considered over a veteran Angular developer, 'because they know React.'
    - xemdetia 9y ago
      I use a similar criteria for programmers/developers, if you have sound fundamentals in troubleshooting and working through a (technical) problem on your own you are more useful than someone who after hiring lacks those skills. The learning curve of any dev job is a sequence of problem solving steps to get to the technical knowledge required to speak of the code accurately. If they are not willing or able to do that work without handholding and you don't have time to handhold it's probably not going to work as well than someone who can do this independently. If you haven't encountered someone who is unwilling to even look at a makefile/build/ide setting page without assistance you might not see the use of it.
    - deleted 9y ago
- UnpossibleJim 9y ago
  In my experience, a lot of skill tests in the tech sector look for a specific set of skills that a CEO has read about, that are the new skills du jour, and not the skill set they actually need. It comes down to money people coming in the tech sector because there is money there and putting their trust in other money peoples, while treating the people that make the tech sector run like an inexhaustible, cheap resource. People have heard that there is a "gold rush" in the tech sector without actually understanding the product. It's an obvious money grab and isulting when you go into a job interview that needs a small subset of programming skills and they "require" a math degree, programming experience, design experience and are willing to pay a junior developer salary (even though you are managing a team of two or three) because you "get resume cred for working at our big name company/get in on the ground floor of tgis awesome start up"...... well, that's the west coast anyway. The ego over here is truly amazing.
- bitbang 9y ago
  What skill sets a person has (provided it's related in some way to the open position) is less important than how quickly they can adapt and acquire new skill sets.
  - jayd16 9y ago
    By this logic, no one should hire senior developers as they are just a waste of money.
    - stale2002 9y ago
      Being a senior dev is more about high level soft skills and architecture skills, as opposed to knowing the intricacies of whatever programming language the company uses. Coding syntax can be learned to master level in a couple weeks. "designing software" and "managing a project" skills cannot.
      - dkhenry 9y ago
        Just to pile on, I have had people who complained that they should have been a senior dev because they knew the most about algorithms and the internals of compilers, languages, libraries, and CPU's. Those same people couldn't communicate that knowledge to others and couldn't design complex systems containing multiple independent components, but they felt since they had strong technical skills that was all they needed.
- hueving 9y ago
  Implementing small algorithms in a vacuum.

corporateslave3 9y ago

Google and FB know this, the problem is that its far too inefficient for them to screen for those hard earned skills. The algorithms tests are pretty close to IQ tests that you can study for. For mass hiring of decently intelligent employees, they are actually very effective. Worst comes to worst, you put the bad employee on a PIP or boring project and just hire someone else. Large corporations have definitely thought through this.