32 ms·

Linux desktop market share over 3%

146 points by AlexeyBrin 9y ago

sitepodmatt 9y ago
This partially thanks to Apple, every developer I know using Apple has some issues with OS X quality and/or the increasing price (they already subscribed to the premium idea years ago but the touchbar price boost was a new level of kicker). Strangely I suspect Microsoft may of actually dented some of this, social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. Disclaimer bounce: Long time ubuntu user, just listening social media. Also, I'd be interested to know if chromebooks factor into this stat?
- Finnucane 9y ago
  The statistics here show a noticeable drop for Windows between July and August. It's not clear what these numbers really represent. Chrome might be part of it. Also, the general slowing of the PC market in general. Linux doesn't have to grow very fast if the others are declining. In the future, it will the year of the Linux desktop because no one else will be using desktops.
- arca_vorago 9y ago
  >social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. You must live in a special bubble then, because w10 was so horrible we still hear moaning about it in the sysadmin community. For me, it was the straw that broke the camels back I needed to completely remove myself from MS's horrible, user-patronizing ecosystem. I feel sorry for all the businesses that are trapped in it. I refuse to support it anymore though. My hope is for people that manage friends and family systems to start putting easy linux distros on instead of Windows. The malware ecosystem alone is a good enough reason to do so. As for WSL... I'm just amazed at how many people have forgotten the three E's and the MS of the 90's. MS is not to be trusted.
- twiss 9y ago
  "Other" is 0.00%, so Chrome OS is highly likely counted as Linux, unless its market share is 0%.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  > Strangely I suspect Microsoft may of actually dented some of this, social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. I sit here this morning in a diner, with a Windows 10 tablet hybrid. It's the first Windows machine I've owned in half a decade.
  - mark-r 9y ago
    I have a cheap Windows 10 laptop for occasional use when I'm out of town, and I really only use it for browsing. That turd has completely frustrated me with its low resolution and slow response to things that should be instant. Booting seems to take forever for example. I've been researching Chromebooks and this afternoon I'll buy one that will be better in every way and cheaper.
    - LyndsySimon 9y ago
      I settled on a Samsung Galaxy TabPro S. m3/8GB/256GB. I found a refurb for $530 shipped and couldn't be happier with it.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      If I were buying a Chromebook today I'd get either a Samsung Chromebook Pro or an ASUS Chromebook Flip C302CA (probably the latter). I often travel with the smaller Asus Chromebook but it's been in need of a hardware upgrade for a while.
      - mark-r 9y ago
        I looked at those, but my wife thought I was crazy for looking at $400+ Chromebooks when much cheaper ones were available. She was right, as long as I was willing to pass on the convertible form factor. I just picked up the Acer Chromebook 14 from Costco for $260. It has a nice IPS display with decent resolution, and the rest of it looks good as well.
        ghaff 9y ago
        I don't actually use the convertible form factor on my Asus much--really only when I'm not traveling without a dedicated tablet for some reason. It makes for a somewhat heavy and awkward tablet. I like the specs and looks of those higher-end models but you're right that they're pushing into laptop range with their pricing.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  I can only chime in with my anecdote but I started hitting hardware limits on my macbook and I went to shop for a new computer. The cheapest mac that solved my bottleneck (ram) was a $900 Mac Mini but that computer had no upgrade room and I recently got a 4k display and I didn't want to find out whether the Iris graphics were up to the task. I built a badass linux box for $850 - Ryzen 1600, 1050 ti, SSD, 32 gb of ram. It's hard to make an linux to apples comparison because mine is just a desktop and most macs come with displays but the apple premium just wasn't worth it. I had a few issues out of the gate (not getting it running, but installing Nvidia drivers and getting tensorflow to use GPU acceleration) but it was an excellent learning experience and a few hours of time (which was honestly an enjoyable use of time) saved me considerable money over Apple. My desktop is the performance peer of an $2,400 iMac. I'd pay a premium for an Apple but not 3x as much. And I'll probably continue to use a Macbook as a secondary device but when my Macbook fails, it's going to be harder and harder to shell out Macbook money when I know that a used Lenovo with Ubuntu will get the job done.
  - hak8or 9y ago
    Any specific reason you used a dedicated eh GPU instead of just the integrated one? Or do ryzen igp's not do too well?
    - ahartmetz 9y ago
      Ryzen plus IGP products are not available yet.
    - alexanderstears 9y ago
      Yeah - training neural networks and running my 4k main monitor. Also, the current Ryzens need dedicated GPUs.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    Apple isn't really playing in the desktop market and has been phoning it in with the Mac Mini and Pro for some time. Usually developers talking about Macs are talking about MacBook Pros.
- overcast 9y ago
  This is entirely due to other devices, like chromebooks being counted in the tally. Linux desktops/laptops are definitely not gaining that much compared to Macs. Outside our little microcosm on HN, the general public isn't leaving their Macs for Linux.
- lowbloodsugar 9y ago
  My path was windows->linux->mac. I lasted about nine months on linux, and then switch to a mac because it was "a nice nix that works with my phone". My next computer will run linux. My phone doesn't need a computer any more, and my computer needs more than the 16gb of ram that my 2011 MBP and 2016 MBP both max out at.
  - Nerdfest 9y ago
    You obviously have an iPhone. Rewarding that platform lock-in would not be my first choice.
- tomxor 9y ago
  You're not wrong, I am one of those devs. I was always happy to play with other OS, but when it came to desktop - Mac was the obvious choice, and that would still be my choice 10 years ago both because of linux ease-of-entry back then and my skills and patience. After 10.6 I refused to upgrade because of <rant>!@£$%^</rant> and gradually got comfortable with a transition to a minimal tiling based desktop on Linux. Now i'm so much happier, dev is simple and using my computer is so much more relaxing without having to fend off a continuous barrage of "upgrades".
  - marssaxman 9y ago
    10.6.8 was the best Mac OS ever. Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore. I believe in personal computers as tools of personal empowerment; it's my machine, not Apple's. I really resent being told what I can and can't do with it, and I neither need nor want an itunes account. I've been using Macs since 1985 and spent the first half of my career developing Mac software exclusively, but I've also been using Linux since... hmm... 1998. Macs always used to come first, but at some point a couple of years ago I noticed that I'd gradually, without really meaning to, started spending virtually all my time in Linux instead. I still have a Mac mini on my desk at home, and it's nice enough, but when it eventually dies I doubt I'll bother to replace it. Everything I want to do works just fine in Linux.
    - tomxor 9y ago
      >Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore I have exactly the same feeling, I also had some fake nostalgic experience with Mac OS Classic / System6 etc (of which my age gives me no right to be). Everything up to and including 10.6.8 for any quirks they may have had, all felt like an OS that the user was truly in charge of, while still having a friendly, slick and minimal UI... But now, instead of using an OS it feels like using a website shop or an iPhone, it feels like the OS is in charge of the user, and users are expected to need to be told what to do. I suppose it's inevitable, Apple aren't really a computer company any more.
rrdharan 9y ago
I wonder if Windows 10's WSL is counted as Windows or Linux when computing this stat.
- mixedCase 9y ago
  Are WSL users running browsers from WSL? curl at least sends no user agent unless you manually enter one.
  - Meegul 9y ago
    I somewhat regularly use Firefox from within the WSL. It's a privacy by obscurity thing for me though.
    - asdfgadsfgasfdg 9y ago
      Doesn't that give you an amazingly unique fingerprint? https://panopticlick.eff.org/ https://panopticlick.eff.org/ https://amiunique.org/ https://amiunique.org/
      - Meegul 9y ago
        Seems so. But I meant more privacy on a local machine basis. That is, someone would really need to dig through the filesystem to find browsing information, rather than just looking at the standard locations. I recognize it's a weak privacy measure, but in my situation it gives me a mostly private browser on a shared user account.
        asdfgadsfgasfdg 9y ago
        OK. This sounds like a perfect use for either private browsing mode or another profile with history etc set to false though.
        Meegul 9y ago
        Private browsing wouldn't save any browsing information, which is something I want. Also, using another profile would reveal that the profile exists in the first place. Using the WSL is much more hidden.
Retric 9y ago
Interesting, looking at their past data windows had a 5% drop in market share over the last 10 years (~95.5%>%90.5%) which is much larger than I was expecting.
rihegher 9y ago
"This report contains preview data that has NOT been reviewed by Quality Assurance." Does anybody know the methodology here? I mean it could even be a spike from user now using chrome headless from cloud linux server.
- andrew3726 9y ago
  Seems to be explained here: https://www.netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx#Methodology https://www.netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx#Methodology
jxn 9y ago
That seems like a suspiciously large bump. I could imagine a scenario where the numbers are right, though. Is Chrome OS counted as Linux? School is starting up again in many areas...
- rossdavidh 9y ago
  Well, it seems like either: 1) Chrome has a market share less than FreeBSD, and so is not mentioned 2) Chrome is not considered a desktop/laptop OS, or 3) The Linux numbers include Chrome. Option (3) seems the most likely, and I have to agree that it's driven by schools. A lot of mainstream schools are starting to use Chromebooks for their students, it's almost the default school option now, I think.
- myth_drannon 9y ago
  Yeah, 30% jump in one month. There is an error somewhere there
  - markstos 9y ago
    Or many thousands of students started school and booted up new Chromebooks in August.
    - claytonjy 9y ago
      Even then, there's either way more chromebook-using students than I'd have ever guessed, or there's way fewer other linux users...probably a little of both.
      - jrs95 9y ago
        Chromebooks are very popular in education, so it really wouldn't surprise me.
        pjmlp 9y ago
        Only in US.
Cerium 9y ago
Linux is ready for a lot of people. Inset my parents up with Ubuntu six months ago and they like it. Not super tech savvy, they can wait word docs, email, and browse the web. All their purchase price went to hardware and none to Microsoft!
- yostrovs 9y ago
  And think of how many people worked on everything related to Linux and how many tried their best to use it, all because of their hatred of Microsoft. And for what?
- boyce 9y ago
  For people ugrading from w7, it's much easier to adapt to Cinnamon than W10, especially older folks
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    I myself had an easy time adjusting, and I'm planning to give my grandma either a Debian or a Linux Mint system with Cinnamon once it's finally time for a new laptop. It's curious how a "supported" OS like Windows 7 mysteriously only runs on old hardware and cannot be bought anymore. You'd almost think they're trying to force you to upgrade.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - overcast 9y ago
    Except the whole not running any normal software they see in day to day use. Older folks are definitely not going to understand why their version of Office 2016 isn't installing on their "Linux machine" their grandson setup for them. I went down this route before with my own, and it ends in either installing Windows, or getting a Mac/iPad.
    - reacweb 9y ago
jussij 9y ago
So lets go back to 2009 when it was obvious Linux would kill Windows: http://www.pcworld.com/article/181640/linux_will_kill_windows_says_former_microsoftie.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/181640/linux_will_kill_window...
- midnitewarrior 9y ago
  Well, unfortunately, the dominant version of Windows of that time (2009), Windows XP (released in 2001) still has twice the market share of the entire desktop install base of Linux. https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share... Perhaps in another decade Linux desktop will finally overshadow a version of Windows from 2001...
- uiri 9y ago
  The point that the source for that article was making is that FOSS will kill proprietary software, not that necessarily that Linux will (near term) kill Windows. One only needs to look at Microsoft's open source push (e.g. https://github.com/Azure https://github.com/Azure, https://github.com/Microsoft https://github.com/Microsoft) to see that that article's larger prediction is coming true.
  - anon1385 9y ago
    It hasn't killed proprietary software at all though; if anything the average person interacts with more proprietary software per day than ever before. It's just than now it's all behind a web interface. It's notable that the Linux stats are being boosted significantly by Chromebooks. Ask RMS what he thinks of Chromebooks… Weirdly an entire generation of developers have managed to convince themselves that by working on proprietary web apps they are somehow fighting the good fight on the side of FOSS.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      That is the biggest irony of all, isn't it?
pixelmonkey 9y ago
Been running Linux since 2002. I do have to say, though it took 10 years longer than I thought it would, the combination of hardware standardization in consumer laptops and maturity of Linux kernel has meant that, in the last few years, Linux has "just worked" more often than not (and WAY more often than it used to). I recently upgraded from a Lenovo X220 to a 4th-generation Lenovo X1 Carbon, and installed Ubuntu GNOME 17.04. Didn't need to tweak a single thing about the hardware. Everything just worked. That said, I did hit a weird GPU bug[1] that reminded me that no matter how good Linux on the desktop has gotten, there's always something. :-/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1710051 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video...
- bitexploder 9y ago
  To be blunt, those i915 GPU drivers are shit. I battled a brand new Dell XPS 13 for like two weeks before I hit a stable mix. Once I fixed everything it is great. In particular virt-manager/virt-viewer/libvirt/KVM have come a long way. I don't need Workstation or Virtualbox any longer. Having Docker and a real X11 server is nice. Everything /generally/ works. A few things I have to run a VM for like Webex..... Regardless I don't think I experience much more bugginess than my Mac peers now, and most things work out of the box. Linux on the desktop: Most things work out of the box ;)
  - gtaylor 9y ago
    My XPS 15 with i915 + Mobile Nvidia GPU has been really un-fun to deal with, but it's finally getting better now. Docking and undocking is still an adventure every time, though.
    - bitexploder 9y ago
      It's interesting, most of our company is on Macs and people experience lots of issues waking up from sleep. Mac didn't used to be that way for many years. I run i3 and just logout before any sort of monitor changing.
  - 9y ago
WoodenChair 9y ago
I question the reliability of these statistics. Look in particular back 1 year (before the default view) at April 2016. In that month Windows was < 90% and the Mac was nearing 10%. Is there really such a large variability? Regarding other comments on Windows, it's all about where your starting point is. If your starting point is April 2016 then Windows is actually up. Further I would like to see ChromeOS separated into its own category. Are we going to start counting Android running on a laptop as "Desktop Linux?" Do we care about the kernel or the userland?
midnitewarrior 9y ago
Is this finally the year of the Linux desktop???
- samfisher83 9y ago
  Well how many years have they been predicting this? I guess it has won mobile.
  - midnitewarrior 9y ago
    Nobody uses Linux on mobile. Phone users use Android. Android uses Linux. Phone users do not use Linux.
  - zeep 9y ago
    > won mobile until Google's Fuchsia takes off...
- koolba 9y ago
  Quoting LL Cool J (from "Mama Said Knock You Out"): > Don't call it a comeback, > I've been here for years For many of us, particularly among HN users, it's been the year of the Linux desktop for a long while.
  - tomxor 9y ago
    >For many of us, particularly among HN users, it's been the year of the Linux desktop for a long while. True, "The year of the Linux Desktop" is completely subjective :P For me it was around 2014. Q: "What was your year of the Linux desktop?" Now that would be an interesting statistic, more telling than some single number via collecting user-agent strings. To be clear "Your year" is when you go full Linux as your primary desktop.
- dhimes 9y ago
  +1 Never gets old :)
jdlyga 9y ago
Linux Desktop is definitely gaining more users. Personally, I didn't start really using Desktop Linux until Ubuntu 16.04. Now I use Ubuntu at work and Manjaro at home.
- csdreamer7 9y ago
  A fellow Ubuntu & Manjaro user!
  - Zigurd 9y ago
    All of that bump can be accounted for by back-to-school Chromebook purchases. That gives ChromeOS what is still a very low penetration, but perhaps as much as a third of "desktop" Linux, and a very high growth rate. I could see it outpacing legacy Linux distros in a year and challenging Mac OS in three years. Fast changes in a market that barely budges year to year.
thinbeige 9y ago
My notebook with Arch is my favorite. The reason: I can run the system without any desktop environment. I use just i3 as my window manager. Can't do this neither with Windows nor macOS.
- extr 9y ago
  Tiling WMs are just too good to pass up. In some ways I prefer my workflow on my 13" laptop with arch/bspwm to my massive dual monitor windows setup at work. As soon as you get used to it you wonder how you ever used a laptop without it.
loudmax 9y ago
Are there really more than half as many Linux desktop users as Mac users? If so, it's heartening our share increasing, even if's still tiny. FreeBSD and OpenBSD are pretty great OSs too. I wonder if their share isn't so tiny because BSD enthusiasts have an easy option of running a Mac and still have access to BSD tools under the hood.
- 2trill2spill 9y ago
  > FreeBSD and OpenBSD are pretty great OSs too. I wonder if their share isn't so tiny because BSD enthusiasts have an easy option of running a Mac and still have access to BSD tools under the hood. Yea and the driver situation for laptops on FreeBSD doesn't help. I've never had problems installing FreeBSD on server or desktop hardware, but on laptops either the wifi doesn't work or suspend and resume doesn't work, or of course both. But this reflects the goals FreeBSD so one shouldn't really be that surprised.
  - sydney6 9y ago
    I run FreeBSD on my Laptop (X230) and i can assure you that both, wifi and suspend/resume, are working perfectly fine.. edit: Typo.
    - sydney6 9y ago
      In Fact, as i think about it, there is nothing on this machine that does not work out of the box with FreeBSD.
    - nekkoru 9y ago
      Yeah, awesome, what about the tens of thousands of other laptop models on the market?
      - sydney6 9y ago
        Well, i can only account for the machines that i have, of course.. Most Business Laptops come with Intel Chipsets (Wifi, Ethernet, Graphics, etc.) throughout and at least these should be working fine.
ashark 9y ago
I switched my gaming desktop over to Linux this year because I just couldn't stand Win10 any more. Ubuntu is, if anything, less stable and less user-friendly than when I left it nearly a decade ago (8.04 or 8.10 was when I got fed up and left, I think, mostly over Pulseaudio ruining everything), but Win10's just intolerable. I mean, 8 was bad, but this is another level of garbage. I've been a user of almost every desktop Windows since 3.1 (only exception: ME), plus a couple of the server/workstation versions (NT4, 2K), but 10 finally got me to drop it. If the Mac Mini gets an update and external video card enclosures stop costing as much as an entire mid-tier video card and/or manage to convince me I won't have to replace them every 2-3 years to keep up, I'll probably go that way. Until then, it's Linux.
- zeveb 9y ago
  > Ubuntu is, if anything, less stable and less user-friendly than when I left it nearly a decade ago (8.04 or 8.10 was when I got fed up and left, I think, mostly over Pulseaudio ruining everything), but Win10's just intolerable. Give Debian a shot. Given that Ubuntu is based on Debian, plus some decisions of dubious worth, Debian is basically all the good parts of Ubuntu and none of the bad. Agreed re. Windows 10. I have a Windows 10 laptop for use with software & websites which don't work on Linux (as an aside: websites that don't work on Linux: how is this even a thing in 2017?), and it's just appallingly bad. I have to wonder if the people behind its UI have ever actually used it. This isn't an issue of unfamiliarity with Windows metaphors on my part: although I'm primarily a Linux user, I've been using Windows secondarily since the 90s, and Windows 10 is essentially unusable, at least on a laptop without a mouse.
  - ashark 9y ago
    > Give Debian a shot. Given that Ubuntu is based on Debian, plus some decisions of dubious worth, Debian is basically all the good parts of Ubuntu and none of the bad. Debian and Gentoo were my main distros before I went to Ubuntu for its sensible defaults (c'mon early 2000s Debian, obviously I don't want Galleon or whatever, I want Firefox, and so on for basically every other Debian default program) and pretty good just-worksitude, but maybe I do need to give Debian another shot. If Ubuntu 17.10 isn't a big improvement (Wayland is finally a thing now I guess? Mostly-vanilla Gnome as the default DE again which is obviously the right move assuming they're not willing to jump onboard with one of the retro-Gnome DEs, so maybe it'll be good?) I might visit my old friend Debian. > Agreed re. Windows 10. I have a Windows 10 laptop for use with software & websites which don't work on Linux (as an aside: websites that don't work on Linux: how is this even a thing in 2017?), and it's just appallingly bad. I have to wonder if the people behind its UI have ever actually used it. This isn't an issue of unfamiliarity with Windows metaphors on my part: although I'm primarily a Linux user, I've been using Windows secondarily since the 90s, and Windows 10 is essentially unusable, at least on a laptop without a mouse. Yep. I ditched Windows on my home desktop, but I have a Surface3 at work I have to use for certain testing. I don't know how people can be productive on it. The Surface3 itself is pretty bad (I was kind of excited to try it because I know the Surface line has a lot of positive buzz, but am now very confused where all that came from) but the hardware plus Win10 is a total disaster. Just, wow. And like you've I've spend a lot of time over a lot of years in Windows, so that's not the problem. Every time I use it any desire to go back to Win10 on my desktop vanishes.
jroseattle 9y ago
Not sure this methodology can be trusted all that much. The same headline, 4 months ago, would read: "Linux desktop market share now less than 2%".
thomasthomas 9y ago
makes sense. as majority of the population moves away from desktops, windows and mac will lose market share. the hardcore Linux users that aren't going anywhere will gain market share.
SEJeff 9y ago
Now to flip this over a bit, I wonder what the Linux mobile share is and the Linux embedded share is. Not too many Windows CE devices around, and even some SCADA systems are moving to Linux. Perhaps I'm biased, having used Linux on the desktop since late 1999/early 2000 or so.
- nthcolumn 9y ago
  Microsoft make more money from Android than their awful Windows phones. Personally worked on SCADA systems for powers stations but never on windows, all DEC-Unix and Linux in fact how I got into linux in '97. My kids both nearly teenagers have known only Linux and Apple (except Windows at schools*). I recall also how many of those years were hailed as 'Year of the Linux Desktop'. Also 'Linux' desktop - please people don't forget all the work by unsung heroes on e.g. KDE and Gnome apps, package managers, Drake installers, Compiz and Beryl, getting winmodems working, nvidia drivers, goddamn pulseaudio,... you get my drift.
ruskimalooski 9y ago
As nice as Linux on the desktop can be sometimes, it was actually refreshing to come back to Windows 10, especially after my time with Arch. I had forgotten how nice having certain things simply work out of the box was (wifi drivers, bluetooth drivers, etc). I like Linux a lot, but its hard to see myself using it as a primary computer anymore, especially as a more personal, recreational machine.
- reacweb 9y ago
  It is strange that I have the opposite experience. When a problem occurs in Linux, the investigation is like a trip in the unknown. At the end, the problem is clearly identified and definitively solved and I have improved my knowledge about the system. When the same occurs in windows, I have to reinstall random software or drivers until it works. No clue if it will fail again soon. Nothing learned about what was the bug that has caused this problem.
- Rotareti 9y ago
  > I had forgotten how nice having certain things simply work out of the box was (wifi drivers, bluetooth drivers, etc). If this is what you want, why did you pick Arch Linux out of all distros? I'm using Linux Mint and it ran flawlessly out of the box on my ThinkPad.
  - ruskimalooski 9y ago
    Yea, I've used Mint. I didn't care for it. Arch was not my first pick, I used it after using it a bunch.
- su30mki117 9y ago
  My experience is somewhat similar. I dual boot Antergos and Windows 10 on my Thinkpad X230. I find Windows 10 to be almost as fast and zippy as Linux now. I understand all the hate it gets regarding privacy concerns and being a closed system. But if you are ready to put up with them, it is a fine operating system. I see a huge improvement in Windows 10 when it comes to stability and performance issues.
nicodjimenez 9y ago
Having a Linux desktop is a no brainer. Linux laptops, on the other hand... Has anyone had a good experience with a Linux laptop? As soon as that's possible I'd happily ditch MacOS
- dbcurtis 9y ago
  I've had various Lenovo T series laptops at home and at work for over 10 years, either running Linux only, or as Linux/Windows switch-boot systems. The only reason I've ever had windows on any of those laptops is to run embedded development tools required by employers. The Linux part of the experience has been largely smooth and painless. Before purchasing, make sure that the video and wifi are well supported by Linux and meet the needs of your application, but I've found with most Lenovo's the laptops hit all the checkboxes for me. I'm not trying to shill for Lenovo, there are certainly other quality laptops out there. I happen to like the pointing device and keyboard and general build quality, and I try not to spend a lot of time over-optimizing my purchases with a lot of research. So, yes, I've had great experiences with Linux laptops.
  - beefield 9y ago
    The biggest trouble I had with my current T was due to me buying it immediately after launch, and it took some months before the usual distros started working with wifi and 3g modem without hickups.
    - dbcurtis 9y ago
      Fair enough. Waiting until the pioneers' questions have been crawled by Google is a good strategy.
- matthewn 9y ago
  The Thinkpad X series has been giving me a first-rate Linux laptop experience for something like a decade now.
  - 9y ago
kruhft 9y ago
One less user, as I've switched to macOS. Unix under the hood, working software/hardware with no or little fuss, sudo port ... works with all the free software I could want and the rest generally compiles relatively easily), and I can buy devices at a store and they 'just work.' Kernel is open source, and the rest is 'good enough'. I'd use linux for embedded, but as a desktop, not anymore.
- kruhft 9y ago
  macOS let's me get work DONE with the computer, not just work ON the computer.
bdcravens 9y ago
Worth noting this is international. The share in a poor country where the additional cost of Windows matters paints a much different picture than the share would in the US, for example. (drilling down to country requires an expensive upgrade)
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Most poor countries just pirate, so licenses don't play any role.
Chiba-City 9y ago
Linux is very close to perfect as a "decision support and design" workstation. Tool performance, ubiquity, interoperability and stability are the big targets there. We have to name as a goal data and media asset durability and tool compatibility over years or decades. Linux has virtues that end up conflicting. An occupational hazard of Linux as a tool and OS innovation platform are disruptions, disappointments, instability and dropped balls. Other people are goofing off without enduring responsibility for a large user base. We confuse design criteria we inherit from the commercial world. Easy to use, easy to remember, easy to diagnose problems and "quick to getting going" are not the same always compatible design targets. The Window Manager wars took up tons of Linux desktop attention. Gaming is naturally an arena for hardware churn and 1-upmanship. I have great hope for Linux desktop stability with government deployments and thus a global tug for stability against rushing breaking changes. The Linux platform and package manager contents are remarkable achievements.
- Chiba-City 9y ago
  Did I make a mistake? Is it unfashionable to be for well documented, reliable and stable Linux And OSS tools? I like old and new programming languages too. Those are not so incompatible. Is there a thematic disatisfaction I am missing?
bdcravens 9y ago
I've been a "Linux user" since 1998, but never have used it as my primary desktop. I recently tried going to Linux on an XPS 15 (with 4k display). I plugin into multiple monitors at home an work: 2 1920x1080, 1 2560x1440, and one 4k. I tried multiple distros, and even both Gnome and KDE Plasma. I'm sure given enough time I could have made it work, but eventually I had throw in the towel and go back to my MBP.
balladeer 9y ago
When my 5 year old MacBook Air dies, and it doesn't look like I will have a replacement in the price range, I will go for a really lightweight laptop (I hope there'll be one like Air and similarly priced) and install ElementaryOS[0] on it. My needs are simple - sleek, lightweight ~13 inch laptop with normal computing needs for movie, music etc and little bit of coding in Vim (or some other text editor) and all. Linux Desktop has indeed come a long way since 2006 (that was when I introduced to them). [0] https://elementary.io https://elementary.io
- dhimes 9y ago
  How is this different from other linuxes?
jetti 9y ago
As of about a month ago I'm officially Windows free. I have an iMac for desktop and had a 2012 MBP for laptop (that dual booted Windows via Bootcamp). A torrential downpour that soak my backpack ended up destroying that MBP so I bought a used Dell Precision workstation (that came with Windows 10) and put Fedora 26 on it. I don't miss Windows at all. I can play my games on my Mac and while I'm a professional C# dev, I'm working on migrating away from that stack so it isn't like I'm any worse off. Edit: One thing that I do wish was on Linux is Microsoft Office. I'm working on a book (which I will need Windows for, so I'll have to run it in a VM until I finish the book) but being able to use the Word on Linux would make things so much easier.
- papul1993 9y ago
  Have you tried LaTeX? It has a learning curve but the output is far better than MS Word.
  - jetti 9y ago
    Yes. I'm bound to Word because that is what the publisher uses and has their templates in. If it was self publish then I would've been using Latex (or maybe even markdown) the whole time.
  - sidthegeek 9y ago
    I've had good luck with Wine on all my Linux machines.
emergie 9y ago
Other source, PL traffic only, 2.36% in W34 2017: http://www.ranking.pl/en/rankings/operating-systems.html http://www.ranking.pl/en/rankings/operating-systems.html No visible bump in data, just slow growth from 1.55% in Q3 2015 through 2.00% in Q3 2016 to 2.40% in Q3 2017. So oversimplifying a bit it means about 4 converts per 1k citizens annualy.
anotheryou 9y ago
It's funny how it is ready for grandmothers and devs, but everyone in between will struggle with the commandline or 3rd party software at some point...

146 points by AlexeyBrin 9y ago

This partially thanks to Apple, every developer I know using Apple has some issues with OS X quality and/or the increasing price (they already subscribed to the premium idea years ago but the touchbar price boost was a new level of kicker). Strangely I suspect Microsoft may of actually dented some of this, social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. Disclaimer bounce: Long time ubuntu user, just listening social media. Also, I'd be interested to know if chromebooks factor into this stat?

Finnucane 9y ago
The statistics here show a noticeable drop for Windows between July and August. It's not clear what these numbers really represent. Chrome might be part of it. Also, the general slowing of the PC market in general. Linux doesn't have to grow very fast if the others are declining. In the future, it will the year of the Linux desktop because no one else will be using desktops.
arca_vorago 9y ago
>social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. You must live in a special bubble then, because w10 was so horrible we still hear moaning about it in the sysadmin community. For me, it was the straw that broke the camels back I needed to completely remove myself from MS's horrible, user-patronizing ecosystem. I feel sorry for all the businesses that are trapped in it. I refuse to support it anymore though. My hope is for people that manage friends and family systems to start putting easy linux distros on instead of Windows. The malware ecosystem alone is a good enough reason to do so. As for WSL... I'm just amazed at how many people have forgotten the three E's and the MS of the 90's. MS is not to be trusted.
twiss 9y ago
"Other" is 0.00%, so Chrome OS is highly likely counted as Linux, unless its market share is 0%.
LyndsySimon 9y ago
> Strangely I suspect Microsoft may of actually dented some of this, social media around win10 and wsl generally seem positive. I sit here this morning in a diner, with a Windows 10 tablet hybrid. It's the first Windows machine I've owned in half a decade.
- mark-r 9y ago
  I have a cheap Windows 10 laptop for occasional use when I'm out of town, and I really only use it for browsing. That turd has completely frustrated me with its low resolution and slow response to things that should be instant. Booting seems to take forever for example. I've been researching Chromebooks and this afternoon I'll buy one that will be better in every way and cheaper.
  - LyndsySimon 9y ago
    I settled on a Samsung Galaxy TabPro S. m3/8GB/256GB. I found a refurb for $530 shipped and couldn't be happier with it.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    If I were buying a Chromebook today I'd get either a Samsung Chromebook Pro or an ASUS Chromebook Flip C302CA (probably the latter). I often travel with the smaller Asus Chromebook but it's been in need of a hardware upgrade for a while.
    - mark-r 9y ago
      I looked at those, but my wife thought I was crazy for looking at $400+ Chromebooks when much cheaper ones were available. She was right, as long as I was willing to pass on the convertible form factor. I just picked up the Acer Chromebook 14 from Costco for $260. It has a nice IPS display with decent resolution, and the rest of it looks good as well.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        I don't actually use the convertible form factor on my Asus much--really only when I'm not traveling without a dedicated tablet for some reason. It makes for a somewhat heavy and awkward tablet. I like the specs and looks of those higher-end models but you're right that they're pushing into laptop range with their pricing.
alexanderstears 9y ago
I can only chime in with my anecdote but I started hitting hardware limits on my macbook and I went to shop for a new computer. The cheapest mac that solved my bottleneck (ram) was a $900 Mac Mini but that computer had no upgrade room and I recently got a 4k display and I didn't want to find out whether the Iris graphics were up to the task. I built a badass linux box for $850 - Ryzen 1600, 1050 ti, SSD, 32 gb of ram. It's hard to make an linux to apples comparison because mine is just a desktop and most macs come with displays but the apple premium just wasn't worth it. I had a few issues out of the gate (not getting it running, but installing Nvidia drivers and getting tensorflow to use GPU acceleration) but it was an excellent learning experience and a few hours of time (which was honestly an enjoyable use of time) saved me considerable money over Apple. My desktop is the performance peer of an $2,400 iMac. I'd pay a premium for an Apple but not 3x as much. And I'll probably continue to use a Macbook as a secondary device but when my Macbook fails, it's going to be harder and harder to shell out Macbook money when I know that a used Lenovo with Ubuntu will get the job done.
- hak8or 9y ago
  Any specific reason you used a dedicated eh GPU instead of just the integrated one? Or do ryzen igp's not do too well?
  - ahartmetz 9y ago
    Ryzen plus IGP products are not available yet.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    Yeah - training neural networks and running my 4k main monitor. Also, the current Ryzens need dedicated GPUs.
- closeparen 9y ago
  Apple isn't really playing in the desktop market and has been phoning it in with the Mac Mini and Pro for some time. Usually developers talking about Macs are talking about MacBook Pros.
overcast 9y ago
This is entirely due to other devices, like chromebooks being counted in the tally. Linux desktops/laptops are definitely not gaining that much compared to Macs. Outside our little microcosm on HN, the general public isn't leaving their Macs for Linux.
lowbloodsugar 9y ago
My path was windows->linux->mac. I lasted about nine months on linux, and then switch to a mac because it was "a nice nix that works with my phone". My next computer will run linux. My phone doesn't need a computer any more, and my computer needs more than the 16gb of ram that my 2011 MBP and 2016 MBP both max out at.
- Nerdfest 9y ago
  You obviously have an iPhone. Rewarding that platform lock-in would not be my first choice.
tomxor 9y ago
You're not wrong, I am one of those devs. I was always happy to play with other OS, but when it came to desktop - Mac was the obvious choice, and that would still be my choice 10 years ago both because of linux ease-of-entry back then and my skills and patience. After 10.6 I refused to upgrade because of <rant>!@£$%^</rant> and gradually got comfortable with a transition to a minimal tiling based desktop on Linux. Now i'm so much happier, dev is simple and using my computer is so much more relaxing without having to fend off a continuous barrage of "upgrades".
- marssaxman 9y ago
  10.6.8 was the best Mac OS ever. Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore. I believe in personal computers as tools of personal empowerment; it's my machine, not Apple's. I really resent being told what I can and can't do with it, and I neither need nor want an itunes account. I've been using Macs since 1985 and spent the first half of my career developing Mac software exclusively, but I've also been using Linux since... hmm... 1998. Macs always used to come first, but at some point a couple of years ago I noticed that I'd gradually, without really meaning to, started spending virtually all my time in Linux instead. I still have a Mac mini on my desk at home, and it's nice enough, but when it eventually dies I doubt I'll bother to replace it. Everything I want to do works just fine in Linux.
  - tomxor 9y ago
    >Since then I've felt increasingly uncomfortable with the heavy-handed, paternalistic direction Apple has been taking their OS; it just doesn't feel like home anymore I have exactly the same feeling, I also had some fake nostalgic experience with Mac OS Classic / System6 etc (of which my age gives me no right to be). Everything up to and including 10.6.8 for any quirks they may have had, all felt like an OS that the user was truly in charge of, while still having a friendly, slick and minimal UI... But now, instead of using an OS it feels like using a website shop or an iPhone, it feels like the OS is in charge of the user, and users are expected to need to be told what to do. I suppose it's inevitable, Apple aren't really a computer company any more.

rrdharan 9y ago

I wonder if Windows 10's WSL is counted as Windows or Linux when computing this stat.

mixedCase 9y ago
Are WSL users running browsers from WSL? curl at least sends no user agent unless you manually enter one.
- Meegul 9y ago
  I somewhat regularly use Firefox from within the WSL. It's a privacy by obscurity thing for me though.
  - asdfgadsfgasfdg 9y ago
    Doesn't that give you an amazingly unique fingerprint? https://panopticlick.eff.org/ https://panopticlick.eff.org/ https://amiunique.org/ https://amiunique.org/
    - Meegul 9y ago
      Seems so. But I meant more privacy on a local machine basis. That is, someone would really need to dig through the filesystem to find browsing information, rather than just looking at the standard locations. I recognize it's a weak privacy measure, but in my situation it gives me a mostly private browser on a shared user account.
      - asdfgadsfgasfdg 9y ago
        OK. This sounds like a perfect use for either private browsing mode or another profile with history etc set to false though.
        Meegul 9y ago
        Private browsing wouldn't save any browsing information, which is something I want. Also, using another profile would reveal that the profile exists in the first place. Using the WSL is much more hidden.

Retric 9y ago

Interesting, looking at their past data windows had a 5% drop in market share over the last 10 years (~95.5%>%90.5%) which is much larger than I was expecting.

rihegher 9y ago

"This report contains preview data that has NOT been reviewed by Quality Assurance." Does anybody know the methodology here? I mean it could even be a spike from user now using chrome headless from cloud linux server.

andrew3726 9y ago
Seems to be explained here: https://www.netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx#Methodology https://www.netmarketshare.com/faq.aspx#Methodology

jxn 9y ago

That seems like a suspiciously large bump. I could imagine a scenario where the numbers are right, though. Is Chrome OS counted as Linux? School is starting up again in many areas...

rossdavidh 9y ago
Well, it seems like either: 1) Chrome has a market share less than FreeBSD, and so is not mentioned 2) Chrome is not considered a desktop/laptop OS, or 3) The Linux numbers include Chrome. Option (3) seems the most likely, and I have to agree that it's driven by schools. A lot of mainstream schools are starting to use Chromebooks for their students, it's almost the default school option now, I think.
myth_drannon 9y ago
Yeah, 30% jump in one month. There is an error somewhere there
- markstos 9y ago
  Or many thousands of students started school and booted up new Chromebooks in August.
  - claytonjy 9y ago
    Even then, there's either way more chromebook-using students than I'd have ever guessed, or there's way fewer other linux users...probably a little of both.
    - jrs95 9y ago
      Chromebooks are very popular in education, so it really wouldn't surprise me.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        Only in US.

Cerium 9y ago

Linux is ready for a lot of people. Inset my parents up with Ubuntu six months ago and they like it. Not super tech savvy, they can wait word docs, email, and browse the web. All their purchase price went to hardware and none to Microsoft!

yostrovs 9y ago
And think of how many people worked on everything related to Linux and how many tried their best to use it, all because of their hatred of Microsoft. And for what?
boyce 9y ago
For people ugrading from w7, it's much easier to adapt to Cinnamon than W10, especially older folks
- lucb1e 9y ago
  I myself had an easy time adjusting, and I'm planning to give my grandma either a Debian or a Linux Mint system with Cinnamon once it's finally time for a new laptop. It's curious how a "supported" OS like Windows 7 mysteriously only runs on old hardware and cannot be bought anymore. You'd almost think they're trying to force you to upgrade.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- overcast 9y ago
  Except the whole not running any normal software they see in day to day use. Older folks are definitely not going to understand why their version of Office 2016 isn't installing on their "Linux machine" their grandson setup for them. I went down this route before with my own, and it ends in either installing Windows, or getting a Mac/iPad.
  - reacweb 9y ago

jussij 9y ago

So lets go back to 2009 when it was obvious Linux would kill Windows: http://www.pcworld.com/article/181640/linux_will_kill_windows_says_former_microsoftie.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/181640/linux_will_kill_window...

midnitewarrior 9y ago
Well, unfortunately, the dominant version of Windows of that time (2009), Windows XP (released in 2001) still has twice the market share of the entire desktop install base of Linux. https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share... Perhaps in another decade Linux desktop will finally overshadow a version of Windows from 2001...
uiri 9y ago
The point that the source for that article was making is that FOSS will kill proprietary software, not that necessarily that Linux will (near term) kill Windows. One only needs to look at Microsoft's open source push (e.g. https://github.com/Azure https://github.com/Azure, https://github.com/Microsoft https://github.com/Microsoft) to see that that article's larger prediction is coming true.
- anon1385 9y ago
  It hasn't killed proprietary software at all though; if anything the average person interacts with more proprietary software per day than ever before. It's just than now it's all behind a web interface. It's notable that the Linux stats are being boosted significantly by Chromebooks. Ask RMS what he thinks of Chromebooks… Weirdly an entire generation of developers have managed to convince themselves that by working on proprietary web apps they are somehow fighting the good fight on the side of FOSS.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    That is the biggest irony of all, isn't it?

pixelmonkey 9y ago

Been running Linux since 2002. I do have to say, though it took 10 years longer than I thought it would, the combination of hardware standardization in consumer laptops and maturity of Linux kernel has meant that, in the last few years, Linux has "just worked" more often than not (and WAY more often than it used to). I recently upgraded from a Lenovo X220 to a 4th-generation Lenovo X1 Carbon, and installed Ubuntu GNOME 17.04. Didn't need to tweak a single thing about the hardware. Everything just worked. That said, I did hit a weird GPU bug[1] that reminded me that no matter how good Linux on the desktop has gotten, there's always something. :-/ https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1710051 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video...

bitexploder 9y ago
To be blunt, those i915 GPU drivers are shit. I battled a brand new Dell XPS 13 for like two weeks before I hit a stable mix. Once I fixed everything it is great. In particular virt-manager/virt-viewer/libvirt/KVM have come a long way. I don't need Workstation or Virtualbox any longer. Having Docker and a real X11 server is nice. Everything /generally/ works. A few things I have to run a VM for like Webex..... Regardless I don't think I experience much more bugginess than my Mac peers now, and most things work out of the box. Linux on the desktop: Most things work out of the box ;)
- gtaylor 9y ago
  My XPS 15 with i915 + Mobile Nvidia GPU has been really un-fun to deal with, but it's finally getting better now. Docking and undocking is still an adventure every time, though.
  - bitexploder 9y ago
    It's interesting, most of our company is on Macs and people experience lots of issues waking up from sleep. Mac didn't used to be that way for many years. I run i3 and just logout before any sort of monitor changing.
- 9y ago

WoodenChair 9y ago

I question the reliability of these statistics. Look in particular back 1 year (before the default view) at April 2016. In that month Windows was < 90% and the Mac was nearing 10%. Is there really such a large variability? Regarding other comments on Windows, it's all about where your starting point is. If your starting point is April 2016 then Windows is actually up. Further I would like to see ChromeOS separated into its own category. Are we going to start counting Android running on a laptop as "Desktop Linux?" Do we care about the kernel or the userland?

midnitewarrior 9y ago

Is this finally the year of the Linux desktop???

samfisher83 9y ago
Well how many years have they been predicting this? I guess it has won mobile.
- midnitewarrior 9y ago
  Nobody uses Linux on mobile. Phone users use Android. Android uses Linux. Phone users do not use Linux.
- zeep 9y ago
  > won mobile until Google's Fuchsia takes off...
koolba 9y ago
Quoting LL Cool J (from "Mama Said Knock You Out"): > Don't call it a comeback, > I've been here for years For many of us, particularly among HN users, it's been the year of the Linux desktop for a long while.
- tomxor 9y ago
  >For many of us, particularly among HN users, it's been the year of the Linux desktop for a long while. True, "The year of the Linux Desktop" is completely subjective :P For me it was around 2014. Q: "What was your year of the Linux desktop?" Now that would be an interesting statistic, more telling than some single number via collecting user-agent strings. To be clear "Your year" is when you go full Linux as your primary desktop.
dhimes 9y ago
+1 Never gets old :)

jdlyga 9y ago

Linux Desktop is definitely gaining more users. Personally, I didn't start really using Desktop Linux until Ubuntu 16.04. Now I use Ubuntu at work and Manjaro at home.

csdreamer7 9y ago
A fellow Ubuntu & Manjaro user!
- Zigurd 9y ago
  All of that bump can be accounted for by back-to-school Chromebook purchases. That gives ChromeOS what is still a very low penetration, but perhaps as much as a third of "desktop" Linux, and a very high growth rate. I could see it outpacing legacy Linux distros in a year and challenging Mac OS in three years. Fast changes in a market that barely budges year to year.

thinbeige 9y ago

My notebook with Arch is my favorite. The reason: I can run the system without any desktop environment. I use just i3 as my window manager. Can't do this neither with Windows nor macOS.

extr 9y ago
Tiling WMs are just too good to pass up. In some ways I prefer my workflow on my 13" laptop with arch/bspwm to my massive dual monitor windows setup at work. As soon as you get used to it you wonder how you ever used a laptop without it.

loudmax 9y ago

Are there really more than half as many Linux desktop users as Mac users? If so, it's heartening our share increasing, even if's still tiny. FreeBSD and OpenBSD are pretty great OSs too. I wonder if their share isn't so tiny because BSD enthusiasts have an easy option of running a Mac and still have access to BSD tools under the hood.

2trill2spill 9y ago
> FreeBSD and OpenBSD are pretty great OSs too. I wonder if their share isn't so tiny because BSD enthusiasts have an easy option of running a Mac and still have access to BSD tools under the hood. Yea and the driver situation for laptops on FreeBSD doesn't help. I've never had problems installing FreeBSD on server or desktop hardware, but on laptops either the wifi doesn't work or suspend and resume doesn't work, or of course both. But this reflects the goals FreeBSD so one shouldn't really be that surprised.
- sydney6 9y ago
  I run FreeBSD on my Laptop (X230) and i can assure you that both, wifi and suspend/resume, are working perfectly fine.. edit: Typo.
  - sydney6 9y ago
    In Fact, as i think about it, there is nothing on this machine that does not work out of the box with FreeBSD.
  - nekkoru 9y ago
    Yeah, awesome, what about the tens of thousands of other laptop models on the market?
    - sydney6 9y ago
      Well, i can only account for the machines that i have, of course.. Most Business Laptops come with Intel Chipsets (Wifi, Ethernet, Graphics, etc.) throughout and at least these should be working fine.

ashark 9y ago

I switched my gaming desktop over to Linux this year because I just couldn't stand Win10 any more. Ubuntu is, if anything, less stable and less user-friendly than when I left it nearly a decade ago (8.04 or 8.10 was when I got fed up and left, I think, mostly over Pulseaudio ruining everything), but Win10's just intolerable. I mean, 8 was bad, but this is another level of garbage. I've been a user of almost every desktop Windows since 3.1 (only exception: ME), plus a couple of the server/workstation versions (NT4, 2K), but 10 finally got me to drop it. If the Mac Mini gets an update and external video card enclosures stop costing as much as an entire mid-tier video card and/or manage to convince me I won't have to replace them every 2-3 years to keep up, I'll probably go that way. Until then, it's Linux.

zeveb 9y ago
> Ubuntu is, if anything, less stable and less user-friendly than when I left it nearly a decade ago (8.04 or 8.10 was when I got fed up and left, I think, mostly over Pulseaudio ruining everything), but Win10's just intolerable. Give Debian a shot. Given that Ubuntu is based on Debian, plus some decisions of dubious worth, Debian is basically all the good parts of Ubuntu and none of the bad. Agreed re. Windows 10. I have a Windows 10 laptop for use with software & websites which don't work on Linux (as an aside: websites that don't work on Linux: how is this even a thing in 2017?), and it's just appallingly bad. I have to wonder if the people behind its UI have ever actually used it. This isn't an issue of unfamiliarity with Windows metaphors on my part: although I'm primarily a Linux user, I've been using Windows secondarily since the 90s, and Windows 10 is essentially unusable, at least on a laptop without a mouse.
- ashark 9y ago
  > Give Debian a shot. Given that Ubuntu is based on Debian, plus some decisions of dubious worth, Debian is basically all the good parts of Ubuntu and none of the bad. Debian and Gentoo were my main distros before I went to Ubuntu for its sensible defaults (c'mon early 2000s Debian, obviously I don't want Galleon or whatever, I want Firefox, and so on for basically every other Debian default program) and pretty good just-worksitude, but maybe I do need to give Debian another shot. If Ubuntu 17.10 isn't a big improvement (Wayland is finally a thing now I guess? Mostly-vanilla Gnome as the default DE again which is obviously the right move assuming they're not willing to jump onboard with one of the retro-Gnome DEs, so maybe it'll be good?) I might visit my old friend Debian. > Agreed re. Windows 10. I have a Windows 10 laptop for use with software & websites which don't work on Linux (as an aside: websites that don't work on Linux: how is this even a thing in 2017?), and it's just appallingly bad. I have to wonder if the people behind its UI have ever actually used it. This isn't an issue of unfamiliarity with Windows metaphors on my part: although I'm primarily a Linux user, I've been using Windows secondarily since the 90s, and Windows 10 is essentially unusable, at least on a laptop without a mouse. Yep. I ditched Windows on my home desktop, but I have a Surface3 at work I have to use for certain testing. I don't know how people can be productive on it. The Surface3 itself is pretty bad (I was kind of excited to try it because I know the Surface line has a lot of positive buzz, but am now very confused where all that came from) but the hardware plus Win10 is a total disaster. Just, wow. And like you've I've spend a lot of time over a lot of years in Windows, so that's not the problem. Every time I use it any desire to go back to Win10 on my desktop vanishes.

jroseattle 9y ago

Not sure this methodology can be trusted all that much. The same headline, 4 months ago, would read: "Linux desktop market share now less than 2%".

thomasthomas 9y ago

makes sense. as majority of the population moves away from desktops, windows and mac will lose market share. the hardcore Linux users that aren't going anywhere will gain market share.

SEJeff 9y ago

Now to flip this over a bit, I wonder what the Linux mobile share is and the Linux embedded share is. Not too many Windows CE devices around, and even some SCADA systems are moving to Linux. Perhaps I'm biased, having used Linux on the desktop since late 1999/early 2000 or so.

nthcolumn 9y ago
Microsoft make more money from Android than their awful Windows phones. Personally worked on SCADA systems for powers stations but never on windows, all DEC-Unix and Linux in fact how I got into linux in '97. My kids both nearly teenagers have known only Linux and Apple (except Windows at schools*). I recall also how many of those years were hailed as 'Year of the Linux Desktop'. Also 'Linux' desktop - please people don't forget all the work by unsung heroes on e.g. KDE and Gnome apps, package managers, Drake installers, Compiz and Beryl, getting winmodems working, nvidia drivers, goddamn pulseaudio,... you get my drift.

ruskimalooski 9y ago

As nice as Linux on the desktop can be sometimes, it was actually refreshing to come back to Windows 10, especially after my time with Arch. I had forgotten how nice having certain things simply work out of the box was (wifi drivers, bluetooth drivers, etc). I like Linux a lot, but its hard to see myself using it as a primary computer anymore, especially as a more personal, recreational machine.

reacweb 9y ago
It is strange that I have the opposite experience. When a problem occurs in Linux, the investigation is like a trip in the unknown. At the end, the problem is clearly identified and definitively solved and I have improved my knowledge about the system. When the same occurs in windows, I have to reinstall random software or drivers until it works. No clue if it will fail again soon. Nothing learned about what was the bug that has caused this problem.
Rotareti 9y ago
> I had forgotten how nice having certain things simply work out of the box was (wifi drivers, bluetooth drivers, etc). If this is what you want, why did you pick Arch Linux out of all distros? I'm using Linux Mint and it ran flawlessly out of the box on my ThinkPad.
- ruskimalooski 9y ago
  Yea, I've used Mint. I didn't care for it. Arch was not my first pick, I used it after using it a bunch.
su30mki117 9y ago
My experience is somewhat similar. I dual boot Antergos and Windows 10 on my Thinkpad X230. I find Windows 10 to be almost as fast and zippy as Linux now. I understand all the hate it gets regarding privacy concerns and being a closed system. But if you are ready to put up with them, it is a fine operating system. I see a huge improvement in Windows 10 when it comes to stability and performance issues.

nicodjimenez 9y ago

Having a Linux desktop is a no brainer. Linux laptops, on the other hand... Has anyone had a good experience with a Linux laptop? As soon as that's possible I'd happily ditch MacOS

dbcurtis 9y ago
I've had various Lenovo T series laptops at home and at work for over 10 years, either running Linux only, or as Linux/Windows switch-boot systems. The only reason I've ever had windows on any of those laptops is to run embedded development tools required by employers. The Linux part of the experience has been largely smooth and painless. Before purchasing, make sure that the video and wifi are well supported by Linux and meet the needs of your application, but I've found with most Lenovo's the laptops hit all the checkboxes for me. I'm not trying to shill for Lenovo, there are certainly other quality laptops out there. I happen to like the pointing device and keyboard and general build quality, and I try not to spend a lot of time over-optimizing my purchases with a lot of research. So, yes, I've had great experiences with Linux laptops.
- beefield 9y ago
  The biggest trouble I had with my current T was due to me buying it immediately after launch, and it took some months before the usual distros started working with wifi and 3g modem without hickups.
  - dbcurtis 9y ago
    Fair enough. Waiting until the pioneers' questions have been crawled by Google is a good strategy.
matthewn 9y ago
The Thinkpad X series has been giving me a first-rate Linux laptop experience for something like a decade now.
- 9y ago

kruhft 9y ago

One less user, as I've switched to macOS. Unix under the hood, working software/hardware with no or little fuss, sudo port ... works with all the free software I could want and the rest generally compiles relatively easily), and I can buy devices at a store and they 'just work.' Kernel is open source, and the rest is 'good enough'. I'd use linux for embedded, but as a desktop, not anymore.

kruhft 9y ago
macOS let's me get work DONE with the computer, not just work ON the computer.

bdcravens 9y ago

Worth noting this is international. The share in a poor country where the additional cost of Windows matters paints a much different picture than the share would in the US, for example. (drilling down to country requires an expensive upgrade)

pjmlp 9y ago
Most poor countries just pirate, so licenses don't play any role.

Chiba-City 9y ago

Linux is very close to perfect as a "decision support and design" workstation. Tool performance, ubiquity, interoperability and stability are the big targets there. We have to name as a goal data and media asset durability and tool compatibility over years or decades. Linux has virtues that end up conflicting. An occupational hazard of Linux as a tool and OS innovation platform are disruptions, disappointments, instability and dropped balls. Other people are goofing off without enduring responsibility for a large user base. We confuse design criteria we inherit from the commercial world. Easy to use, easy to remember, easy to diagnose problems and "quick to getting going" are not the same always compatible design targets. The Window Manager wars took up tons of Linux desktop attention. Gaming is naturally an arena for hardware churn and 1-upmanship. I have great hope for Linux desktop stability with government deployments and thus a global tug for stability against rushing breaking changes. The Linux platform and package manager contents are remarkable achievements.

Chiba-City 9y ago
Did I make a mistake? Is it unfashionable to be for well documented, reliable and stable Linux And OSS tools? I like old and new programming languages too. Those are not so incompatible. Is there a thematic disatisfaction I am missing?

bdcravens 9y ago

I've been a "Linux user" since 1998, but never have used it as my primary desktop. I recently tried going to Linux on an XPS 15 (with 4k display). I plugin into multiple monitors at home an work: 2 1920x1080, 1 2560x1440, and one 4k. I tried multiple distros, and even both Gnome and KDE Plasma. I'm sure given enough time I could have made it work, but eventually I had throw in the towel and go back to my MBP.

balladeer 9y ago

When my 5 year old MacBook Air dies, and it doesn't look like I will have a replacement in the price range, I will go for a really lightweight laptop (I hope there'll be one like Air and similarly priced) and install ElementaryOS[0] on it. My needs are simple - sleek, lightweight ~13 inch laptop with normal computing needs for movie, music etc and little bit of coding in Vim (or some other text editor) and all. Linux Desktop has indeed come a long way since 2006 (that was when I introduced to them). [0] https://elementary.io https://elementary.io

dhimes 9y ago
How is this different from other linuxes?

jetti 9y ago

As of about a month ago I'm officially Windows free. I have an iMac for desktop and had a 2012 MBP for laptop (that dual booted Windows via Bootcamp). A torrential downpour that soak my backpack ended up destroying that MBP so I bought a used Dell Precision workstation (that came with Windows 10) and put Fedora 26 on it. I don't miss Windows at all. I can play my games on my Mac and while I'm a professional C# dev, I'm working on migrating away from that stack so it isn't like I'm any worse off. Edit: One thing that I do wish was on Linux is Microsoft Office. I'm working on a book (which I will need Windows for, so I'll have to run it in a VM until I finish the book) but being able to use the Word on Linux would make things so much easier.

papul1993 9y ago
Have you tried LaTeX? It has a learning curve but the output is far better than MS Word.
- jetti 9y ago
  Yes. I'm bound to Word because that is what the publisher uses and has their templates in. If it was self publish then I would've been using Latex (or maybe even markdown) the whole time.
- sidthegeek 9y ago
  I've had good luck with Wine on all my Linux machines.

emergie 9y ago

Other source, PL traffic only, 2.36% in W34 2017: http://www.ranking.pl/en/rankings/operating-systems.html http://www.ranking.pl/en/rankings/operating-systems.html No visible bump in data, just slow growth from 1.55% in Q3 2015 through 2.00% in Q3 2016 to 2.40% in Q3 2017. So oversimplifying a bit it means about 4 converts per 1k citizens annualy.

anotheryou 9y ago

It's funny how it is ready for grandmothers and devs, but everyone in between will struggle with the commandline or 3rd party software at some point...