3 ms·

> We continue to iterate on LogDevice with the ultimate goal of contributing it to the open source community later in 2017. Frankly, if it's the same license a

by shock 9y ago

> We continue to iterate on LogDevice with the ultimate goal of contributing it to the open source community later in 2017. Frankly, if it's the same license as React (BSD + PATENTS), I'm not interested. Edit: Here come the facebook fanboys with the downvotes.

shock 9y ago
I want to elaborate a bit why I dislike Facebook's BSD + PATENTS license: I believe Facebook was built, in part, using software under MIT, BSD, Apache, etc – I see it as immoral when they turn around and release OSS software under BSD + PATENTS. BSD + PATENTS sounds like a great idea in theory – if every company released under BSD + PATENTS it would essentially render the patent system toothless, except for the patent trolls who would still be free to sue whomever they want. In practice, however, it would be hard for BSD + PATENTS to have widespread adoption because it would be seen as a loss of value to shareholders, especially as for some companies their patent portfolio is an important part of their valuation. IANAL.
- TAForObvReasons 9y ago
  What you are describing is essentially "ladder kicking", which was the top comment from the discussion a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14779881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14779881 > Having known so many people involved with Facebook for so long, I have come up with a phrase to describe the cultural phenomenon I’ve witnessed among them – ladder kicking. Basically, people who get a leg up from others, and then do everything in their power to ensure nobody else manages to get there. No, it’s not “human nature” or “how it works.” Silicon Valley and the tech industry at large weren’t built by these sorts of people, and we need to be more active in preventing this mind-virus from spreading.
  - shock 9y ago
    Thank you for linking the other discussion, it is much more eloquent than my own comment. The bit that worries me is: They’ve built their entire business on the back of open source software that wasn’t ever encumbered with the sort of nonsense they’ve attached to their own projects. And this industry is just going to let them have it, because the stuff they are putting out is shiny and “convenient” and free? Are we really allowing them to do this for the sake of convenience?
qaq 9y ago
In this case since main alternatives are under licenses that come with less restrictive patent grants this is a very valid criticism. In case of React not so much.
amelius 9y ago
Frankly, if this comes from a company that treats its users as products, I'm not interested no matter what the license says.
- shock 9y ago
  These days I get the impression that there are fewer and fewer companies that don't see users as products. I hope I'm wrong.
sctb 9y ago
We've had many discussions about licensing issues, but this isn't one of them. Please don't post off topic and then complain about downvotes—it breaks the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- shock 9y ago
  I never imagined that the project's license would be off-topic. To me a project's license is very material, a deciding factor if I'm using it or not. That's what I was trying to express.
  - sctb 9y ago
    The project under discussion doesn't have a license.
    - shock 9y ago
      I'm assuming you mean it doesn't have a license because it's not released. By that same logic we shouldn't be discussing the project because it doesn't exist.
- kordless 9y ago
  > we've had many > don't post off topic Users of HN, please note "we" is Facebook and Facebook, or a representative of Facebook, is telling us what we can and can't discuss here. This is why I quit posting here and use /r/hackernews on Reddit for my links. However, I occasionally make an appearance when I see patterns emerge, such as control where we didn't assume control existed.
  - grzm 9y ago
    'sctb is an HN mod and does not work for Facebook nor is a representative of Facebook.
- shock 9y ago
  > We've had many discussions about licensing issues, but this isn't one of them. Why do you decide what we discuss? Since you squashed my comment about licensing, another one popped up. It means people do think licensing is important to discuss.
jasonwatkinspdx 9y ago
I'm not a facebook fanboy, but I did vote this down because it's a derailment based on an assumption. This isn't released yet and no one knows the terms. Atop that, I'm just getting really tired of seeing the patent issue trotted out any and every time facebook or react are mentioned here.

by shock 9y ago

shock 9y ago

I want to elaborate a bit why I dislike Facebook's BSD + PATENTS license: I believe Facebook was built, in part, using software under MIT, BSD, Apache, etc – I see it as immoral when they turn around and release OSS software under BSD + PATENTS. BSD + PATENTS sounds like a great idea in theory – if every company released under BSD + PATENTS it would essentially render the patent system toothless, except for the patent trolls who would still be free to sue whomever they want. In practice, however, it would be hard for BSD + PATENTS to have widespread adoption because it would be seen as a loss of value to shareholders, especially as for some companies their patent portfolio is an important part of their valuation. IANAL.

TAForObvReasons 9y ago
What you are describing is essentially "ladder kicking", which was the top comment from the discussion a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14779881 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14779881 > Having known so many people involved with Facebook for so long, I have come up with a phrase to describe the cultural phenomenon I’ve witnessed among them – ladder kicking. Basically, people who get a leg up from others, and then do everything in their power to ensure nobody else manages to get there. No, it’s not “human nature” or “how it works.” Silicon Valley and the tech industry at large weren’t built by these sorts of people, and we need to be more active in preventing this mind-virus from spreading.
- shock 9y ago
  Thank you for linking the other discussion, it is much more eloquent than my own comment. The bit that worries me is: They’ve built their entire business on the back of open source software that wasn’t ever encumbered with the sort of nonsense they’ve attached to their own projects. And this industry is just going to let them have it, because the stuff they are putting out is shiny and “convenient” and free? Are we really allowing them to do this for the sake of convenience?

qaq 9y ago

In this case since main alternatives are under licenses that come with less restrictive patent grants this is a very valid criticism. In case of React not so much.

amelius 9y ago

Frankly, if this comes from a company that treats its users as products, I'm not interested no matter what the license says.

shock 9y ago
These days I get the impression that there are fewer and fewer companies that don't see users as products. I hope I'm wrong.

sctb 9y ago

We've had many discussions about licensing issues, but this isn't one of them. Please don't post off topic and then complain about downvotes—it breaks the guidelines. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

shock 9y ago
I never imagined that the project's license would be off-topic. To me a project's license is very material, a deciding factor if I'm using it or not. That's what I was trying to express.
- sctb 9y ago
  The project under discussion doesn't have a license.
  - shock 9y ago
    I'm assuming you mean it doesn't have a license because it's not released. By that same logic we shouldn't be discussing the project because it doesn't exist.
kordless 9y ago
> we've had many > don't post off topic Users of HN, please note "we" is Facebook and Facebook, or a representative of Facebook, is telling us what we can and can't discuss here. This is why I quit posting here and use /r/hackernews on Reddit for my links. However, I occasionally make an appearance when I see patterns emerge, such as control where we didn't assume control existed.
- grzm 9y ago
  'sctb is an HN mod and does not work for Facebook nor is a representative of Facebook.
shock 9y ago
> We've had many discussions about licensing issues, but this isn't one of them. Why do you decide what we discuss? Since you squashed my comment about licensing, another one popped up. It means people do think licensing is important to discuss.

jasonwatkinspdx 9y ago

I'm not a facebook fanboy, but I did vote this down because it's a derailment based on an assumption. This isn't released yet and no one knows the terms. Atop that, I'm just getting really tired of seeing the patent issue trotted out any and every time facebook or react are mentioned here.