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"Android 8.0 makes KASLR available in Android kernels 4.4 and newer." And yet on my pixel with Android 8.0, I am only using 3.18.52. Who actually ships Android

by khc 9y ago

"Android 8.0 makes KASLR available in Android kernels 4.4 and newer." And yet on my pixel with Android 8.0, I am only using 3.18.52. Who actually ships Android with kernel 4.x?

trthomps 9y ago
I also have 3.18 on my Pixel XL. I assume the unreleased Pixel 2 devices will be running kernel 4.4 if that's what they targeted. They probably wanted to back port it to 3.18 but it was too much work. I'm pretty disappointed they didn't move the Pixel forward to a new kernel though, this seems to be one of the biggest issues with Android.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Quite disappointing, yet another bad example for OEMs.
- khc 9y ago
  I hope so, but given that 3.18 was released almost three years ago I am not holding my breath.
- wmf 9y ago
  This is an interesting case study in development cycles. The Pixel XL from October 2016 uses the Snapdragon 82x released in July 2016 but first announced in March 2015 and it uses a kernel from 2014 which gives us a hint about when driver development started.
MBCook 9y ago
I was surprised to read that in the article. New android phones from top vendors (not the $50 junk devices) ship with 3.x kernels? Wow.
- fooker 9y ago
  3.x kernels with security patches. What seems to be the issue? You can claim big rewards from Google if you report kernel exploits in Android.
  - gsnedders 9y ago
    > 3.x kernels with security patches. What seems to be the issue? Limiting the scope of vulnerabilities before they are patched. There's plenty of more recent defence-in-depth work that will make some vulnerabilities impossible to exploit on more recent kernels, and while they will get patched on the older kernels it'd still be nicer if they weren't exploitable in the first place.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      Even without that there are lots of power saving fixes that get put into Linux with every release. That kind of stuff seems like it be very important in a phone as well.
      - kllrnohj 9y ago
        Given Android has its own power management story independent of what upstream is doing those power changes are unlikely to be relevant or significant to Android.
        MBCook 9y ago
        I know (vaguely) that android has its own power management system, and I don't know how much it ties into what the kernel uses on a standard laptop. But the changes to the normal kernel one as well as some of the changes in data structures are algorithms designed to be more efficient in the first place are probably still useful.
Moral_ 9y ago
The new pixel 2 phones coming out in October are on 4.4
ibrahima 9y ago
My Nexus 5X, only a year older than your Pixel, is on 3.10, so it got none of these updates :(
tetromino_ 9y ago
OnePlus ships modern kernels. My OnePlus 5 is using kernel 4.4.21 - this is with Nougat 7.1.1, by the way; no Oreo here yet.
- khc 9y ago
  Ok I am very disappointing with Google in that case
  - forkbomb_ 9y ago
    The kernel you get is entirely up to the SoC vendor. Snapdragon 820/821 ships with 3.18. Snapdragon 830 ships with 4.4. Snapdragon 830+1 will ship with 4.9 There's a huge amount of work involved in porting a chipset from one kernel version to another. While I'm sure Google _could_ do it, it's ultimately not worth their while - they'd probably lose support from Qualcomm, and if they hit any weird bugs they'd be on their own.
- murderfs 9y ago
  OnePlus ships the kernel that Qualcomm gives them. The BSP for Snapdragon 835 (aka msm8998) is based on 4.4
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
ajtaylor 9y ago
My Galaxy S8 is running kernel 4.4.16
mrmondo 9y ago
4.4 is old. Technology - especially software moves fast and it’s been 9 months since 4.4 was released. There’s been a lot of security, performance and feature improvements since 4.4 was released. Major and/or userland problems don’t tend to occur as the kernel gets developed and released. There are major advantages in accepting new subsystem code over patched ‘legacy’ code.
salcoco 9y ago
I got the OnePlus 5 and it has kernel 4.4.21 tho using android 7.1

by khc 9y ago

"Android 8.0 makes KASLR available in Android kernels 4.4 and newer." And yet on my pixel with Android 8.0, I am only using 3.18.52. Who actually ships Android with kernel 4.x?

trthomps 9y ago

I also have 3.18 on my Pixel XL. I assume the unreleased Pixel 2 devices will be running kernel 4.4 if that's what they targeted. They probably wanted to back port it to 3.18 but it was too much work. I'm pretty disappointed they didn't move the Pixel forward to a new kernel though, this seems to be one of the biggest issues with Android.

pjmlp 9y ago
Quite disappointing, yet another bad example for OEMs.
khc 9y ago
I hope so, but given that 3.18 was released almost three years ago I am not holding my breath.
wmf 9y ago
This is an interesting case study in development cycles. The Pixel XL from October 2016 uses the Snapdragon 82x released in July 2016 but first announced in March 2015 and it uses a kernel from 2014 which gives us a hint about when driver development started.

MBCook 9y ago

I was surprised to read that in the article. New android phones from top vendors (not the $50 junk devices) ship with 3.x kernels? Wow.

fooker 9y ago
3.x kernels with security patches. What seems to be the issue? You can claim big rewards from Google if you report kernel exploits in Android.
- gsnedders 9y ago
  > 3.x kernels with security patches. What seems to be the issue? Limiting the scope of vulnerabilities before they are patched. There's plenty of more recent defence-in-depth work that will make some vulnerabilities impossible to exploit on more recent kernels, and while they will get patched on the older kernels it'd still be nicer if they weren't exploitable in the first place.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    Even without that there are lots of power saving fixes that get put into Linux with every release. That kind of stuff seems like it be very important in a phone as well.
    - kllrnohj 9y ago
      Given Android has its own power management story independent of what upstream is doing those power changes are unlikely to be relevant or significant to Android.
      - MBCook 9y ago
        I know (vaguely) that android has its own power management system, and I don't know how much it ties into what the kernel uses on a standard laptop. But the changes to the normal kernel one as well as some of the changes in data structures are algorithms designed to be more efficient in the first place are probably still useful.

Moral_ 9y ago

The new pixel 2 phones coming out in October are on 4.4

ibrahima 9y ago

My Nexus 5X, only a year older than your Pixel, is on 3.10, so it got none of these updates :(

tetromino_ 9y ago

OnePlus ships modern kernels. My OnePlus 5 is using kernel 4.4.21 - this is with Nougat 7.1.1, by the way; no Oreo here yet.

khc 9y ago
Ok I am very disappointing with Google in that case
- forkbomb_ 9y ago
  The kernel you get is entirely up to the SoC vendor. Snapdragon 820/821 ships with 3.18. Snapdragon 830 ships with 4.4. Snapdragon 830+1 will ship with 4.9 There's a huge amount of work involved in porting a chipset from one kernel version to another. While I'm sure Google _could_ do it, it's ultimately not worth their while - they'd probably lose support from Qualcomm, and if they hit any weird bugs they'd be on their own.
murderfs 9y ago
OnePlus ships the kernel that Qualcomm gives them. The BSP for Snapdragon 835 (aka msm8998) is based on 4.4

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

ajtaylor 9y ago

My Galaxy S8 is running kernel 4.4.16

mrmondo 9y ago

4.4 is old. Technology - especially software moves fast and it’s been 9 months since 4.4 was released. There’s been a lot of security, performance and feature improvements since 4.4 was released. Major and/or userland problems don’t tend to occur as the kernel gets developed and released. There are major advantages in accepting new subsystem code over patched ‘legacy’ code.

salcoco 9y ago

I got the OnePlus 5 and it has kernel 4.4.21 tho using android 7.1