5 ms·

Same thing happens with doctors in the US. Doctors should know that after the first 12 hours, the doctor's not as good at doctoring anymore.

dv_dt 9y ago
The discussion about work hours here typically seems to put effectiveness after 4-6 hours as dropping off for programming, for pilots regulations allow 8 work hours (with 10 required hours off, and at least 8 of those consecutive uninterrupted sleep). It makes one wonder at the working conditions of doctors and sailors.
- JBlue42 9y ago
  Toss in architects, visual effects artists, kinda of whatever job you want in the US, especially if there's no history of a union. As someone else said, there's a lot of ego involved too. Given that a lot of it is "brainwork", it's the only physical way they might be able to feel they're testing themselves against something. Most of it in those jobs is just production-churn and an attempt by the higher-ups to save money on things that a) were bid low and b) have shitty margins.
wpietri 9y ago
Yes. Although in talking with doctor friends, it turns out there's an interesting counter-force. A major source of errors is handoffs. I've certainly seen this when in the hospital with family; new doctors would frequently ask me for historical information, including about what other doctors had said or done. I was fine giving it, but what if I hadn't been there?
- dx034 9y ago
  Do they work with checklists? That seems to be the number one reason why crews in aviation can work with such low error rates. Handoffs with strict checklists would probably cause lower error rates.
  - LeifCarrotson 9y ago
    Yes, they do have a lot of checklists, but it's one thing to create a checklist for an airplane with very strict requirements for validation and maintenance and another to create a checklist for a human being.
  - b4ux1t3 9y ago
    Crap, I listened to a podcasts sometime last year about how using checklists in a medical setting decreased errors by a ridiculous amount. I'm going to try to find it. But, if I don't, you got the gist of it: Have a checklist, and stick to it. Don't expect one person, or even multiple people, to remember all of the steps off the top of their head.
    - Pharylon 9y ago
      If you find it, post it so I can listen.
      - b4ux1t3 9y ago
        I'm having a bear of a time trying to figure out what podcast it was. It might even have been a YouTube video. I've been going through different permutations of search terms to find it. I'm worried it might have been .NET Rocks![1] They have a great podcast, but their episodes aren't indexed by Google because of their website structure. I'm gonna keep looking, and even check my home computer's history when I get home tonight, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Someone a bit above linked to a book that I'm pretty sure was the impetus behind the podcast I listened to, so it might be worth giving that a read. [1] https://dotnetrocks.com/ https://dotnetrocks.com/ EDIT: HA! I found it! It was actually in the press section on the book's web page. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122226184 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1222261...
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      Possibly talking about "The Checklist Manifesto" - http://atulgawande.com/book/the-checklist-manifesto/ http://atulgawande.com/book/the-checklist-manifesto/ It's an -excellent- book about the application of checklists to error reduction etc.

dv_dt 9y ago

The discussion about work hours here typically seems to put effectiveness after 4-6 hours as dropping off for programming, for pilots regulations allow 8 work hours (with 10 required hours off, and at least 8 of those consecutive uninterrupted sleep). It makes one wonder at the working conditions of doctors and sailors.

JBlue42 9y ago
Toss in architects, visual effects artists, kinda of whatever job you want in the US, especially if there's no history of a union. As someone else said, there's a lot of ego involved too. Given that a lot of it is "brainwork", it's the only physical way they might be able to feel they're testing themselves against something. Most of it in those jobs is just production-churn and an attempt by the higher-ups to save money on things that a) were bid low and b) have shitty margins.

wpietri 9y ago

Yes. Although in talking with doctor friends, it turns out there's an interesting counter-force. A major source of errors is handoffs. I've certainly seen this when in the hospital with family; new doctors would frequently ask me for historical information, including about what other doctors had said or done. I was fine giving it, but what if I hadn't been there?

dx034 9y ago
Do they work with checklists? That seems to be the number one reason why crews in aviation can work with such low error rates. Handoffs with strict checklists would probably cause lower error rates.
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  Yes, they do have a lot of checklists, but it's one thing to create a checklist for an airplane with very strict requirements for validation and maintenance and another to create a checklist for a human being.
- b4ux1t3 9y ago
  Crap, I listened to a podcasts sometime last year about how using checklists in a medical setting decreased errors by a ridiculous amount. I'm going to try to find it. But, if I don't, you got the gist of it: Have a checklist, and stick to it. Don't expect one person, or even multiple people, to remember all of the steps off the top of their head.
  - Pharylon 9y ago
    If you find it, post it so I can listen.
    - b4ux1t3 9y ago
      I'm having a bear of a time trying to figure out what podcast it was. It might even have been a YouTube video. I've been going through different permutations of search terms to find it. I'm worried it might have been .NET Rocks![1] They have a great podcast, but their episodes aren't indexed by Google because of their website structure. I'm gonna keep looking, and even check my home computer's history when I get home tonight, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Someone a bit above linked to a book that I'm pretty sure was the impetus behind the podcast I listened to, so it might be worth giving that a read. [1] https://dotnetrocks.com/ https://dotnetrocks.com/ EDIT: HA! I found it! It was actually in the press section on the book's web page. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122226184 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1222261...
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    Possibly talking about "The Checklist Manifesto" - http://atulgawande.com/book/the-checklist-manifesto/ http://atulgawande.com/book/the-checklist-manifesto/ It's an -excellent- book about the application of checklists to error reduction etc.