7 ms·

My Failed Attempt Switching to Linux

13 points by ahawkins 9y ago

jancsika 9y ago
Why is the author comparing an OS designed to run on that particular hardware to manually installing an OS on a machine for which the author hadn't investigated compatibility? If you compare OSX on Apple hardware to Linux on hardware that ships with Linux pre-installed (probably Ubuntu) I imagine the usability would be comparable. edit: typo
ProAm 9y ago
This reads more of a guy buying the wrong product and not knowing anything about linux and giving up quickly.
- dep_b 9y ago
  > not knowing anything about linux and giving up quickly. to be honest, he said in the article: > I have a life to live I mean how do you need to know about macOS before it runs really smooth on your MacBook? You're not getting paid figuring out which Linux set-up with which patches and config tweaks makes it run just as smooth as a MacBook out of the box. Of course it's not a problem if you like to do this stuff or you're a professional Linux developer.
  - bussierem 9y ago
    Outside of the download of the install ISO, getting stock Ubuntu installed takes about the same amount of time as setting up a new Mac/W10 machine... Answer a few questions, hit "Next" a bunch, and poof you already have stuff installed and ready for you to do all the normal stuff. Very much unfair to claim you need patches and config tweaks and such these days, unless you're straying from the beaten path.
  - anderber 9y ago
    > patches and config tweaks makes it run just as smooth as a MacBook Well, why did he choose Arch linux? He could very well have used Elementary or Ubuntu and easily install with all the 3rd-party stuff he might need.
- sever5 9y ago
  The choices of Arch/NixOS/FreeBSD are bizarre.
lewisj489 9y ago
1. You don't know how to search for laptops. 2. Try Windows?
TwoNineA 9y ago
OP complains about MacBook Pro and needing 32 GB of RAM yet he accepts a 720p screen because it's good for writing/Vim never mentioning why he needs 32 GB of RAM.
- svennek 9y ago
  He probably uses an editor made on electron like atom... That is what the cool kidz use today..
edflsafoiewq 9y ago
The title is very misleading. The vast majority of the post is about laptop specs. The only things he says about Linux are: he had difficulty writing a PKGBUILD under Arch, and the palm detection didn't work under NixOS.
bpizzi 9y ago
A better title would be 'My Failed Attempt Switching to a Lenovo X260 from a MBP 13"'. His 'failure' has not really something to do with Linux itself (he did tried a BSD), more with inadequation between hardware and driver support (btw, if the author wander here: you should have tried at least ubuntu before jumping on arch or nixos).
- cylinder714 9y ago
  Yes, absolutely. And OpenBSD may have been a better fit for his X260 with regards to device drivers.
franciscop 9y ago
Buy $500 laptop with a fake description, install a hard distribution and complain that it doesn't work. Author buys a Macbook Air for God knows how much and say it's way easier. This is not really a fair attempt at switching! This is like using a Raspberry Pi and complaining about its performance. For the next time: 1. Get a decent laptop, preferably one that is known to work in Linux (though in my experience, most 1-5 yo laptops have decent drivers). I got mine for $650 with IPS 1080p (Zenbook UX305CA). 2. Use a easy distribution such as Ubuntu where you just have to click "next" few times. 3. Enjoy your Operative System!
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > Buy a Macbook Air for God knows how much and say it's way easier. ...or buy a Dell XPS 13 which actually has Linux pre-installed by the OEM, and comes with hardware that's actually tested on Linux by the OEM. Apple hardware is notoriously difficult with Linux, because they obviously don't test it on anything but OS X, and the hardware is completely opaque and may even vary within a given {model, year} combination, making it even more difficult for Linux developers to target than most PC hardware. By contrast, Dell actually sources hardware specifically for the Linux edition (ex: they use a different wireless card for the Linux and Windows editions for this exact reason[0]) and pushes any driver patches upstream to the kernel. Aside from the philosophical argument for voting with your wallet for a manufacturer that actually devotes resources towards building hardware that works with Linux, you'll just have a way easier time getting everything working. I'm a longtime Linux user, and having experienced the process on an XPS 13, a Thinkpad, and a Macbook Air, each multiple times over, there's no way I'd ever consider running Linux on any laptop but an XPS 13 (or the Precision, its 15'' counterpart) again. [0] In other words, don't buy the Windows edition and install Linux on it, because you'll probably have issues with your wireless card if you do. Even if you want to install a different distribution, buy the Ubuntu version - Dell upstreams all its patches, so the wireless card that ships with the Ubuntu version will work on any Linux distribution.
  - therealmocker 9y ago
    I think the parent poster was referencing the Macbook Air purchased in the article, not suggesting it as a base for new Linux installation.
jsnk 9y ago
I had a good time switching to Windows / Ubuntu and I talked about my experience here. http://blog.jasonkim.ca/blog/2017/01/01/my-macbook-pro-alternative/ http://blog.jasonkim.ca/blog/2017/01/01/my-macbook-pro-alter... You do need to spend some time tweaking and fixing up minor issues here and there when you install ubuntu, but in the end it was worth it.
svennek 9y ago
Allow me to add: If you own a Mac now, please do yourself and every happy linux user a favor and stay there… Reading the never ending torrent of “linux is not as great as MacOS and no hardware is as great as a Mac” gets really, really tiresome… Different folks, different tools… If you are/were attracted to a Mac, you would probably never be happy with a linux box… For myself it was the other way around (years, and years ago), bought a Mac, hated it furiously, fire-sold it a few months later (a top of the line last-gen PowerMac G4, when it came out)… Having to use the bloody trackpad is so bad ergonomics (when used to the TrackPoint), way to closed-off and “magic” OS, no reasonable good free software (at the time). Same as reading a review of a Landrover from a guy that has been driving sportscars all his life.. “Not low enough”, “bulky”, “boring sound”…. (copy paste from my comment on the article)
- pavel_lishin 9y ago
  Seconding this, based on my own limited experience of running Linux at home. It's just a desktop with Ubuntu, but I've had all sorts of weird, one-off problems with it that cause me headaches. I would hate to have to deal with this on a day-to-day basis on my primary machine - so I choose not to. Mac, despite slipping software quality, still mostly Just Works without having to google a dozen forums with half-answers.
  - svennek 9y ago
    > Mac, despite slipping software quality, still mostly Just Works without having to google a dozen forums with half-answers. Which people like me find to be the fun part :)
    - pavel_lishin 9y ago
      I completely understand the fun in solving a puzzle, but for my day-to-day machine I want something reliable - puzzles are great for the weekend. It's the difference between having a Honda Accord for a daily driver, and a 19600-something-or-other as a fun fix-up project in the garage. (Sorry, I'm not a car guy, that analogy went off track very rapidly.)
binaryapparatus 9y ago
Very low value article. Sigh.
cpburns2009 9y ago
If you're going to switch to Linux, why would Arch Linux be your first pick? I'm sure there are even harder distributions to choose from but wouldn't Ubuntu, Fedora, or Mint be much easier to start with? I like Arch Linux and I'm currently running it on my laptop. I like to think I'm a moderately experienced user after using Linux for 9 years, but it took me around 2 weeks of evenings tinkering with Arch to get it fully set up. That just seems like a terrible choice if you're coming from a Mac.
- beojan 9y ago
  And having failed with that (though I don't know why he had to write his own PKGBUILD) why would you then try FreeBSD and NixOS?
- pkilgore 9y ago
  I do all my dev work on Linux; hacked it for ten years. I've used a bunch of different debians and red hat in the process (most recently a highly modified elementaryOS). It took 40 minutes with Arch before I decided to give up. I do like their wiki though.
sevensor 9y ago
Why on earth was the author trying to write a PKGBUILD? 4 years of daily use at home and at work, and I've never needed to do that to get a system up and running. Where would you even get the idea that this was necessary?
- wink 9y ago
  Same here, was running Arch on an older laptop for years (recently bricked it, not Arch's fault), replicating my usual setup as far as possible and unless it has something to do with newer hardware... why?
mikejmoffitt 9y ago
> You want a fucking good trackpad. [...] This is your primary input device. Heh, alright buddy.
- tarboreus 9y ago
  Maybe he should just get a big button that says "push here" on it.
type0 9y ago
I wonder why he didn't try Gentoo also
syncaddict 9y ago
Installed Debian 9 on my 2014 Macbook Pro 13" and am very happy with it. It is just for experimenting purposes, but it was so smooth I hang on to it. (complete story here :https://syncaddict.net/2017/08/ubuntu-16-04-on-macbook-pro-111-success-story/ https://syncaddict.net/2017/08/ubuntu-16-04-on-macbook-pro-1...) I did buy the late 2016 MBP 15" with touch bar, but it is really not that excellent. Not as excellent as my 2013 MBP 15" was. It is a good machine, but underwhelming by Apple standards.

13 points by ahawkins 9y ago

Why is the author comparing an OS designed to run on that particular hardware to manually installing an OS on a machine for which the author hadn't investigated compatibility? If you compare OSX on Apple hardware to Linux on hardware that ships with Linux pre-installed (probably Ubuntu) I imagine the usability would be comparable. edit: typo

ProAm 9y ago

This reads more of a guy buying the wrong product and not knowing anything about linux and giving up quickly.

dep_b 9y ago
> not knowing anything about linux and giving up quickly. to be honest, he said in the article: > I have a life to live I mean how do you need to know about macOS before it runs really smooth on your MacBook? You're not getting paid figuring out which Linux set-up with which patches and config tweaks makes it run just as smooth as a MacBook out of the box. Of course it's not a problem if you like to do this stuff or you're a professional Linux developer.
- bussierem 9y ago
  Outside of the download of the install ISO, getting stock Ubuntu installed takes about the same amount of time as setting up a new Mac/W10 machine... Answer a few questions, hit "Next" a bunch, and poof you already have stuff installed and ready for you to do all the normal stuff. Very much unfair to claim you need patches and config tweaks and such these days, unless you're straying from the beaten path.
- anderber 9y ago
  > patches and config tweaks makes it run just as smooth as a MacBook Well, why did he choose Arch linux? He could very well have used Elementary or Ubuntu and easily install with all the 3rd-party stuff he might need.
sever5 9y ago
The choices of Arch/NixOS/FreeBSD are bizarre.

lewisj489 9y ago

1. You don't know how to search for laptops. 2. Try Windows?

TwoNineA 9y ago

OP complains about MacBook Pro and needing 32 GB of RAM yet he accepts a 720p screen because it's good for writing/Vim never mentioning why he needs 32 GB of RAM.

svennek 9y ago
He probably uses an editor made on electron like atom... That is what the cool kidz use today..

edflsafoiewq 9y ago

The title is very misleading. The vast majority of the post is about laptop specs. The only things he says about Linux are: he had difficulty writing a PKGBUILD under Arch, and the palm detection didn't work under NixOS.

bpizzi 9y ago

A better title would be 'My Failed Attempt Switching to a Lenovo X260 from a MBP 13"'. His 'failure' has not really something to do with Linux itself (he did tried a BSD), more with inadequation between hardware and driver support (btw, if the author wander here: you should have tried at least ubuntu before jumping on arch or nixos).

cylinder714 9y ago
Yes, absolutely. And OpenBSD may have been a better fit for his X260 with regards to device drivers.

franciscop 9y ago

Buy $500 laptop with a fake description, install a hard distribution and complain that it doesn't work. Author buys a Macbook Air for God knows how much and say it's way easier. This is not really a fair attempt at switching! This is like using a Raspberry Pi and complaining about its performance. For the next time: 1. Get a decent laptop, preferably one that is known to work in Linux (though in my experience, most 1-5 yo laptops have decent drivers). I got mine for $650 with IPS 1080p (Zenbook UX305CA). 2. Use a easy distribution such as Ubuntu where you just have to click "next" few times. 3. Enjoy your Operative System!

chimeracoder 9y ago
> Buy a Macbook Air for God knows how much and say it's way easier. ...or buy a Dell XPS 13 which actually has Linux pre-installed by the OEM, and comes with hardware that's actually tested on Linux by the OEM. Apple hardware is notoriously difficult with Linux, because they obviously don't test it on anything but OS X, and the hardware is completely opaque and may even vary within a given {model, year} combination, making it even more difficult for Linux developers to target than most PC hardware. By contrast, Dell actually sources hardware specifically for the Linux edition (ex: they use a different wireless card for the Linux and Windows editions for this exact reason[0]) and pushes any driver patches upstream to the kernel. Aside from the philosophical argument for voting with your wallet for a manufacturer that actually devotes resources towards building hardware that works with Linux, you'll just have a way easier time getting everything working. I'm a longtime Linux user, and having experienced the process on an XPS 13, a Thinkpad, and a Macbook Air, each multiple times over, there's no way I'd ever consider running Linux on any laptop but an XPS 13 (or the Precision, its 15'' counterpart) again. [0] In other words, don't buy the Windows edition and install Linux on it, because you'll probably have issues with your wireless card if you do. Even if you want to install a different distribution, buy the Ubuntu version - Dell upstreams all its patches, so the wireless card that ships with the Ubuntu version will work on any Linux distribution.
- therealmocker 9y ago
  I think the parent poster was referencing the Macbook Air purchased in the article, not suggesting it as a base for new Linux installation.

jsnk 9y ago

I had a good time switching to Windows / Ubuntu and I talked about my experience here. http://blog.jasonkim.ca/blog/2017/01/01/my-macbook-pro-alternative/ http://blog.jasonkim.ca/blog/2017/01/01/my-macbook-pro-alter... You do need to spend some time tweaking and fixing up minor issues here and there when you install ubuntu, but in the end it was worth it.

svennek 9y ago

Allow me to add: If you own a Mac now, please do yourself and every happy linux user a favor and stay there… Reading the never ending torrent of “linux is not as great as MacOS and no hardware is as great as a Mac” gets really, really tiresome… Different folks, different tools… If you are/were attracted to a Mac, you would probably never be happy with a linux box… For myself it was the other way around (years, and years ago), bought a Mac, hated it furiously, fire-sold it a few months later (a top of the line last-gen PowerMac G4, when it came out)… Having to use the bloody trackpad is so bad ergonomics (when used to the TrackPoint), way to closed-off and “magic” OS, no reasonable good free software (at the time). Same as reading a review of a Landrover from a guy that has been driving sportscars all his life.. “Not low enough”, “bulky”, “boring sound”…. (copy paste from my comment on the article)

pavel_lishin 9y ago
Seconding this, based on my own limited experience of running Linux at home. It's just a desktop with Ubuntu, but I've had all sorts of weird, one-off problems with it that cause me headaches. I would hate to have to deal with this on a day-to-day basis on my primary machine - so I choose not to. Mac, despite slipping software quality, still mostly Just Works without having to google a dozen forums with half-answers.
- svennek 9y ago
  > Mac, despite slipping software quality, still mostly Just Works without having to google a dozen forums with half-answers. Which people like me find to be the fun part :)
  - pavel_lishin 9y ago
    I completely understand the fun in solving a puzzle, but for my day-to-day machine I want something reliable - puzzles are great for the weekend. It's the difference between having a Honda Accord for a daily driver, and a 19600-something-or-other as a fun fix-up project in the garage. (Sorry, I'm not a car guy, that analogy went off track very rapidly.)

binaryapparatus 9y ago

Very low value article. Sigh.

cpburns2009 9y ago

If you're going to switch to Linux, why would Arch Linux be your first pick? I'm sure there are even harder distributions to choose from but wouldn't Ubuntu, Fedora, or Mint be much easier to start with? I like Arch Linux and I'm currently running it on my laptop. I like to think I'm a moderately experienced user after using Linux for 9 years, but it took me around 2 weeks of evenings tinkering with Arch to get it fully set up. That just seems like a terrible choice if you're coming from a Mac.

beojan 9y ago
And having failed with that (though I don't know why he had to write his own PKGBUILD) why would you then try FreeBSD and NixOS?
pkilgore 9y ago
I do all my dev work on Linux; hacked it for ten years. I've used a bunch of different debians and red hat in the process (most recently a highly modified elementaryOS). It took 40 minutes with Arch before I decided to give up. I do like their wiki though.

sevensor 9y ago

Why on earth was the author trying to write a PKGBUILD? 4 years of daily use at home and at work, and I've never needed to do that to get a system up and running. Where would you even get the idea that this was necessary?

wink 9y ago
Same here, was running Arch on an older laptop for years (recently bricked it, not Arch's fault), replicating my usual setup as far as possible and unless it has something to do with newer hardware... why?

mikejmoffitt 9y ago

> You want a fucking good trackpad. [...] This is your primary input device. Heh, alright buddy.

tarboreus 9y ago
Maybe he should just get a big button that says "push here" on it.

type0 9y ago

I wonder why he didn't try Gentoo also

syncaddict 9y ago

Installed Debian 9 on my 2014 Macbook Pro 13" and am very happy with it. It is just for experimenting purposes, but it was so smooth I hang on to it. (complete story here :https://syncaddict.net/2017/08/ubuntu-16-04-on-macbook-pro-111-success-story/ https://syncaddict.net/2017/08/ubuntu-16-04-on-macbook-pro-1...) I did buy the late 2016 MBP 15" with touch bar, but it is really not that excellent. Not as excellent as my 2013 MBP 15" was. It is a good machine, but underwhelming by Apple standards.