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Apple drops Consumer Reports/iPhone 4 discussion threads

76 points by riffer 16y ago

asnyder 16y ago
Remember, it's Apple, no dissent is allowed. Frankly, most companies would probably do the same thing. You wouldn't want a highly negative thread in your forums. That might make potential customers question their zeal and wait for the next model before they make their purchase. Definitely not something you want if you're in the business of releasing new phones every year or so.
- mcknz 16y ago
  A smart company would use its own forums to respond directly to its customers.
  - napierzaza 16y ago
    I'm sure that they will respond publicly to this. They already did, and they might very well change direction. But it's not too reasonable to expect a whole organization to do an about face within 24 hours of a bad review from CR. Apple likes to shoot first and ask questions later. They banned a number of apps and only reversed the ruling after PR problems. So we'll see if this happens.
- Terretta 16y ago
  In theory these are user volunteer help forums, not "oh look at that article over there" forums. I've been lurking on the iPhone 4 boards since launch. Apple is leaving extremely negative threads open and active. They generally do not leave threads that are begun as pointers to, and discussions on, outside sources.
- neonfunk 16y ago
  Admittedly, I remember being surprised both when Apple opened up ratings/reviews for its own products on store.apple.com, and also when their apps on the App Store followed all of the same rules as 3rd party apps. Both instances seemed atypical for a company that loathes imperfection, or the appearance thereof.
niekmaas 16y ago
So? Apple is a company that tries to make money. It's not a goverment funded organisation that is founded to serve its users with a fair and allround content. If Apple decides to delete those threads than they should be able to do so.
- stanleydrew 16y ago
  No one said they shouldn't be able to. It's interesting that they chose to though.
  - bonsaitree 16y ago
    I wouldn't use the term "interesting" so much as "foolish". Much like Best Buy's recent firing/non-firing of that employee, the act itself only serves to add more fuel to the negative-PR fire.
    - alanstorm 16y ago
      When has Negative PR kept a dominant technology company from remaining dominant?
- kevinh 16y ago
  It depends on what sort of image the company wants to uphold. Do they want to be the company that goes out of their way to protect the rights of their customers with some less than perfect products, or do they want to be the company with perfect products that uses its customers as a means to its end, nothing more, nothing less? I doubt many people on the Apple forums weren't aware of the issue. Deleting the thread simply gives them more negative publicity.
- yock 16y ago
  All too often this is the naive apologists cry: "It's their foo. They should be allowed to do with it whatever they want." It's a true enough statement, but it stumbles spectacularly wide of the point. Don't mistake the right to do something with the judgment of whether or not you should.
- 16y ago
Aaronontheweb 16y ago
"Just hold the phone differently, peasants!" - Steve Jobs
- Glide 16y ago
  Funny thing is, I actually hold showed a person who bought an iPhone 4 how to hold the phone without cupping the bottom part. He nows hold it a different way and hasn't gotten any issues. This really shows that there are always so many things we assume don't matter but really do. And frankly how I'm holding a cell phone shouldn't matter.
sounddust 16y ago
I guess they undeleted them, because I see both threads on their forums: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503667&tstart=0 http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503667&#3... http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503228&tstart=15 http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503228&#3...
- city41 16y ago
  For what it's worth, neither of those threads are the main one the article is talking about, which can be seen here: http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=consumer+report+apple+site:discussions.apple.com&d=674577384348&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=6fddb6d,f506f19b http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=consumer+report+apple+site:...
ROFISH 16y ago
Umm... it's a support board for people who have bought a product, not a soapbox to whine on. It's one thing to have negative threads about how their product they bought doesn't work, it's another when people who haven't bought one complain. (And/or a continuation of the same subject that needs to be merged into the parent thread.) EDIT: I should edit quickly to say that what I mean is that support boards specifically for support are for one purpose: support. Complaints need to go in the complaint box or the FCC or something.
- illumin8 16y ago
  For some reason Apple spawns such hatred within the industry that fans of other products will actively create accounts and start trolling on their message boards. I don't go trolling on Blackberry forums about how their devices require reboots regularly, or Android forums about the Evo4G battery life issues, so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so?
  - jasonlotito 16y ago
    > so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so? Because Apple's products impact so much of industry, that even if you don't use their products, their products impact your life. For example, just because you might not use a Microsoft product doesn't mean you aren't affected by Microsoft's choices. That's at least one of the reasons.
    - illumin8 16y ago
      I'm not buying this - how does an iPhone 4 antenna issue affect someone that didn't even buy one? Are you being harmed if someone you call gets a dropped call because they held their iPhone 4 in the wrong way?
      - napierzaza 16y ago
        Uh oh, do you think this means that people who have RECEIVED phone calls from iPhone 4s will be in on the class action? Great.
sdh 16y ago
Apple Rule #1: Never buy the 1st rev of any Apple product. It is unfortunate, because I really want an iPad, but it's a hard reality we have to tolerate until Apple figures out how to get their 1st revs right. The most disturbing aspect of this rule is the almost guaranteed denial of 1st rev problems by Apple.
- CoryMathews 16y ago
  uhh this is version 4 of the iPhone. While I agree with you, on first gen, but this is a 4th gen iPhone conversation.
  - city41 16y ago
    Eh, I would consider the phones to theoretically be version 1.0 (first gen), 1.5 (3g), 1.6 (3gs) and the iPhone 4 is 2.0. Avoiding "dot oh" releases is a common thing regardless of manufacturer.
  - chc 16y ago
    You're confusing branding with identity. The previous three iPhones were all roughly the same hardware — incremental improvements with each model. The iPhone 4 is significantly different hardware. It keeps the iPhone brand, but it is a new piece of hardware. Similarly, the PowerBook G4 was not the fourth revision of the original PowerBook hardware.
- city41 16y ago
  I bought the first iPhone and it was far and away the best phone I've ever had. I replaced it with a Sony Ericsson phone because I've grown to be quite uncomfortable with Apple. The Sony phone is awful. It sort of makes me wonder what I'm really accomplishing by doing this :)
  - joe_the_user 16y ago
    I don't have an iPhone but as far as I understand, the first iPhone was absolutely awful as a phone even though it had a great UI and was amazingly functional in general (I've used the iPhone's camera function and it rocked). An ex-boss stopped making cellular calls and used skype instead just so he could keep doing other stuff with his iPhone.
Padraig 16y ago
I'm looking forward to a proper response to these design issues. I have quite a bit of my savings invested in Apple and, while a recall would be bad, an Apple that doesn't recognise it's own fuck ups would be far more serious. They've made it much harder for themselves with Jobs' obnoxious e-mails and that dishonest press release.
pavs 16y ago
I have some rules when buying gadgets: - Never buy it in the first six months of release, even if it is a holodeck. - Read/watch review. Not only from fanboys but also from rivals and people who despise this gizmo. - If its expensive (and a bit out of your range), wait to see if there is any competing products. (I am still waiting to see what Google has to offer before getting iPad) Frankly I am surprised that most tech savvy consumers don't follow some of these rule.
- asdf333 16y ago
  Correction: especially if its a holodeck. haven't you seen what happens when the holodeck is broken in the next generation?! it is no laughing matter.
  - GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
    I dunno man, if I had an insane holodeck I am sure its better than not having one :)
- GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
  I'd buy a holodeck even if 50% functional. I think as long as it does not kill me its good, eh? However never buy in 6 mo is a fairly good soft restriction. You can probably wait 2 months and buy it. My rule is "don't give in to the hype". I also have the same outlook as I did with the iPod. If it is expensive wait till there is some good competition because after some good competition it can only get better, or the competition will. No competition = shit products. Hence Pentium 4
- dhimes 16y ago
  I have similar rules, but there is a caveat: the industry only progresses if some people are willing to go first. I feel like occasionally I have an obligation to take my turn. Kind of like driving on a long trip: we're all speeding for hundreds of miles, and sometimes you have to take a turn at the front of the pack. It's only fair.
- ThomPete 16y ago
  the reason why I don't follow those rules is because I am not buying gadgets only to consume but to explore. I don't care if products have mistakes in them (unless obviously blatant mistakes). I don't see myself only as a consumer.
GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
I read the cached version. The damn form post was a flame war about how one dude can't stand consumer reports. Its amazing how well he baited people. However if no more posts arise, that is a problem.
srparish 16y ago
Apple has been doing this stuff for years. I bought a macbook pro two years ago and the dvd drive started failing withing the first 6 months. I took it into their store and got a run around and no replacement. There were third party forums with a lot of complaints, but most of the posts on Apple's support site disappeared pretty quickly.
- YooLi 16y ago
  Probably because the posts weren't related to tech support or there were already threads or a thread about the drive. I don't really get the mentality. The users know what they are posting isn't tech support but do it anyway. You see the same thing on deal sites like slickdeals/fatwallet where someone posts in the hot deals forum and even says something like "this isn't a hot deal but I wanted to get the most people to see this..." It also happens in Amazon product reviews. I don't want to read about how the 3rd party merchant you ordered from took 4 weeks to ship it to you when I am looking for product (not merchant) reviews. All the people who give 1-star reviews to books that aren't available in Kindle format to 'force' the publishers to release them are doing the same thing. It's a self-entitlement problem.
gojomo 16y ago
Also, HN kills many threads with complaints about HN. It's the prerogative and even duty of a forum proprietor to steer discussion in productive directions, given the goals of the forum. Proprietors aren't obligated to let a culture of complaint take hold, or provide a soapbox for all their implacable critics. Sure, certain actions will appear to be -- or actually be -- heavy-handed and counterproductive. But some control is definitely better than none. It's a matter of choosing the right amount, while occasionally over- or under-shooting. There are plenty of places to hear about the CR review, or bitch about Apple and its products -- Apple's own forums don't need to be one those places.
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  Evidence? Threads get modded down but that's a bit different.
  - gojomo 16y ago
    Make sure you have 'showdead' on in your preferences. You'll see occasional flare-ups of whiny or repetitive threads all [dead]-ed. One recent series was a bunch of "why did thread X get killed?" "why did the question about thread X get killed?" etc. You'll also see what looks like arbitrary [dead]ing of plausibly topical submissions -- and with what appears to be HN preference against offering explanations or answering questions, people are left guessing why. Sometimes I think it's just that a few users who like to use flags-as-downvotes wander by at a time, triggering an auto-[dead], and then no attentive admin is sufficiently motivated to reverse the decision. (A bunch of submissions and comments that seemed harmless to me were [dead]ed over the July 4 weekend, perhaps because more surly flaggers than magnanimous admins were online.) Also, I find it ironic that people are downvoting my defense of forum-moderation. Don't they realize their downvotes are -- by causing my comment to fade and drop out of view -- censoring me? Hypocritical basterds! :) edit: added 2nd paragraph with more anecdotal examples
jsz0 16y ago
I'm really surprised in all 61 comments here no one has bothered to mention Apple left the "Serious Antenna Problem!" thread active. Basic forum moderation -- no need for duplicate threads on the same topic. I guess it's not quite as entertaining to look at it in an objective way though and, of course, that's what everyone on the Internet really wants: Entertainment.

76 points by riffer 16y ago

Remember, it's Apple, no dissent is allowed. Frankly, most companies would probably do the same thing. You wouldn't want a highly negative thread in your forums. That might make potential customers question their zeal and wait for the next model before they make their purchase. Definitely not something you want if you're in the business of releasing new phones every year or so.

mcknz 16y ago
A smart company would use its own forums to respond directly to its customers.
- napierzaza 16y ago
  I'm sure that they will respond publicly to this. They already did, and they might very well change direction. But it's not too reasonable to expect a whole organization to do an about face within 24 hours of a bad review from CR. Apple likes to shoot first and ask questions later. They banned a number of apps and only reversed the ruling after PR problems. So we'll see if this happens.
Terretta 16y ago
In theory these are user volunteer help forums, not "oh look at that article over there" forums. I've been lurking on the iPhone 4 boards since launch. Apple is leaving extremely negative threads open and active. They generally do not leave threads that are begun as pointers to, and discussions on, outside sources.
neonfunk 16y ago
Admittedly, I remember being surprised both when Apple opened up ratings/reviews for its own products on store.apple.com, and also when their apps on the App Store followed all of the same rules as 3rd party apps. Both instances seemed atypical for a company that loathes imperfection, or the appearance thereof.

niekmaas 16y ago

So? Apple is a company that tries to make money. It's not a goverment funded organisation that is founded to serve its users with a fair and allround content. If Apple decides to delete those threads than they should be able to do so.

stanleydrew 16y ago
No one said they shouldn't be able to. It's interesting that they chose to though.
- bonsaitree 16y ago
  I wouldn't use the term "interesting" so much as "foolish". Much like Best Buy's recent firing/non-firing of that employee, the act itself only serves to add more fuel to the negative-PR fire.
  - alanstorm 16y ago
    When has Negative PR kept a dominant technology company from remaining dominant?
kevinh 16y ago
It depends on what sort of image the company wants to uphold. Do they want to be the company that goes out of their way to protect the rights of their customers with some less than perfect products, or do they want to be the company with perfect products that uses its customers as a means to its end, nothing more, nothing less? I doubt many people on the Apple forums weren't aware of the issue. Deleting the thread simply gives them more negative publicity.
yock 16y ago
All too often this is the naive apologists cry: "It's their foo. They should be allowed to do with it whatever they want." It's a true enough statement, but it stumbles spectacularly wide of the point. Don't mistake the right to do something with the judgment of whether or not you should.
16y ago

Aaronontheweb 16y ago

"Just hold the phone differently, peasants!" - Steve Jobs

Glide 16y ago
Funny thing is, I actually hold showed a person who bought an iPhone 4 how to hold the phone without cupping the bottom part. He nows hold it a different way and hasn't gotten any issues. This really shows that there are always so many things we assume don't matter but really do. And frankly how I'm holding a cell phone shouldn't matter.

sounddust 16y ago

I guess they undeleted them, because I see both threads on their forums: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503667&tstart=0 http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503667&#3... http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503228&tstart=15 http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2503228&#3...

city41 16y ago
For what it's worth, neither of those threads are the main one the article is talking about, which can be seen here: http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=consumer+report+apple+site:discussions.apple.com&d=674577384348&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=6fddb6d,f506f19b http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=consumer+report+apple+site:...

ROFISH 16y ago

Umm... it's a support board for people who have bought a product, not a soapbox to whine on. It's one thing to have negative threads about how their product they bought doesn't work, it's another when people who haven't bought one complain. (And/or a continuation of the same subject that needs to be merged into the parent thread.) EDIT: I should edit quickly to say that what I mean is that support boards specifically for support are for one purpose: support. Complaints need to go in the complaint box or the FCC or something.

illumin8 16y ago
For some reason Apple spawns such hatred within the industry that fans of other products will actively create accounts and start trolling on their message boards. I don't go trolling on Blackberry forums about how their devices require reboots regularly, or Android forums about the Evo4G battery life issues, so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so?
- jasonlotito 16y ago
  > so why do people that don't even own a product feel it is necessary to do so? Because Apple's products impact so much of industry, that even if you don't use their products, their products impact your life. For example, just because you might not use a Microsoft product doesn't mean you aren't affected by Microsoft's choices. That's at least one of the reasons.
  - illumin8 16y ago
    I'm not buying this - how does an iPhone 4 antenna issue affect someone that didn't even buy one? Are you being harmed if someone you call gets a dropped call because they held their iPhone 4 in the wrong way?
    - napierzaza 16y ago
      Uh oh, do you think this means that people who have RECEIVED phone calls from iPhone 4s will be in on the class action? Great.

sdh 16y ago

Apple Rule #1: Never buy the 1st rev of any Apple product. It is unfortunate, because I really want an iPad, but it's a hard reality we have to tolerate until Apple figures out how to get their 1st revs right. The most disturbing aspect of this rule is the almost guaranteed denial of 1st rev problems by Apple.

CoryMathews 16y ago
uhh this is version 4 of the iPhone. While I agree with you, on first gen, but this is a 4th gen iPhone conversation.
- city41 16y ago
  Eh, I would consider the phones to theoretically be version 1.0 (first gen), 1.5 (3g), 1.6 (3gs) and the iPhone 4 is 2.0. Avoiding "dot oh" releases is a common thing regardless of manufacturer.
- chc 16y ago
  You're confusing branding with identity. The previous three iPhones were all roughly the same hardware — incremental improvements with each model. The iPhone 4 is significantly different hardware. It keeps the iPhone brand, but it is a new piece of hardware. Similarly, the PowerBook G4 was not the fourth revision of the original PowerBook hardware.
city41 16y ago
I bought the first iPhone and it was far and away the best phone I've ever had. I replaced it with a Sony Ericsson phone because I've grown to be quite uncomfortable with Apple. The Sony phone is awful. It sort of makes me wonder what I'm really accomplishing by doing this :)
- joe_the_user 16y ago
  I don't have an iPhone but as far as I understand, the first iPhone was absolutely awful as a phone even though it had a great UI and was amazingly functional in general (I've used the iPhone's camera function and it rocked). An ex-boss stopped making cellular calls and used skype instead just so he could keep doing other stuff with his iPhone.

Padraig 16y ago

I'm looking forward to a proper response to these design issues. I have quite a bit of my savings invested in Apple and, while a recall would be bad, an Apple that doesn't recognise it's own fuck ups would be far more serious. They've made it much harder for themselves with Jobs' obnoxious e-mails and that dishonest press release.

pavs 16y ago

I have some rules when buying gadgets: - Never buy it in the first six months of release, even if it is a holodeck. - Read/watch review. Not only from fanboys but also from rivals and people who despise this gizmo. - If its expensive (and a bit out of your range), wait to see if there is any competing products. (I am still waiting to see what Google has to offer before getting iPad) Frankly I am surprised that most tech savvy consumers don't follow some of these rule.

asdf333 16y ago
Correction: especially if its a holodeck. haven't you seen what happens when the holodeck is broken in the next generation?! it is no laughing matter.
- GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
  I dunno man, if I had an insane holodeck I am sure its better than not having one :)
GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
I'd buy a holodeck even if 50% functional. I think as long as it does not kill me its good, eh? However never buy in 6 mo is a fairly good soft restriction. You can probably wait 2 months and buy it. My rule is "don't give in to the hype". I also have the same outlook as I did with the iPod. If it is expensive wait till there is some good competition because after some good competition it can only get better, or the competition will. No competition = shit products. Hence Pentium 4
dhimes 16y ago
I have similar rules, but there is a caveat: the industry only progresses if some people are willing to go first. I feel like occasionally I have an obligation to take my turn. Kind of like driving on a long trip: we're all speeding for hundreds of miles, and sometimes you have to take a turn at the front of the pack. It's only fair.
ThomPete 16y ago
the reason why I don't follow those rules is because I am not buying gadgets only to consume but to explore. I don't care if products have mistakes in them (unless obviously blatant mistakes). I don't see myself only as a consumer.

GrandMasterBirt 16y ago

I read the cached version. The damn form post was a flame war about how one dude can't stand consumer reports. Its amazing how well he baited people. However if no more posts arise, that is a problem.

srparish 16y ago

Apple has been doing this stuff for years. I bought a macbook pro two years ago and the dvd drive started failing withing the first 6 months. I took it into their store and got a run around and no replacement. There were third party forums with a lot of complaints, but most of the posts on Apple's support site disappeared pretty quickly.

YooLi 16y ago
Probably because the posts weren't related to tech support or there were already threads or a thread about the drive. I don't really get the mentality. The users know what they are posting isn't tech support but do it anyway. You see the same thing on deal sites like slickdeals/fatwallet where someone posts in the hot deals forum and even says something like "this isn't a hot deal but I wanted to get the most people to see this..." It also happens in Amazon product reviews. I don't want to read about how the 3rd party merchant you ordered from took 4 weeks to ship it to you when I am looking for product (not merchant) reviews. All the people who give 1-star reviews to books that aren't available in Kindle format to 'force' the publishers to release them are doing the same thing. It's a self-entitlement problem.

gojomo 16y ago

Also, HN kills many threads with complaints about HN. It's the prerogative and even duty of a forum proprietor to steer discussion in productive directions, given the goals of the forum. Proprietors aren't obligated to let a culture of complaint take hold, or provide a soapbox for all their implacable critics. Sure, certain actions will appear to be -- or actually be -- heavy-handed and counterproductive. But some control is definitely better than none. It's a matter of choosing the right amount, while occasionally over- or under-shooting. There are plenty of places to hear about the CR review, or bitch about Apple and its products -- Apple's own forums don't need to be one those places.

joe_the_user 16y ago
Evidence? Threads get modded down but that's a bit different.
- gojomo 16y ago
  Make sure you have 'showdead' on in your preferences. You'll see occasional flare-ups of whiny or repetitive threads all [dead]-ed. One recent series was a bunch of "why did thread X get killed?" "why did the question about thread X get killed?" etc. You'll also see what looks like arbitrary [dead]ing of plausibly topical submissions -- and with what appears to be HN preference against offering explanations or answering questions, people are left guessing why. Sometimes I think it's just that a few users who like to use flags-as-downvotes wander by at a time, triggering an auto-[dead], and then no attentive admin is sufficiently motivated to reverse the decision. (A bunch of submissions and comments that seemed harmless to me were [dead]ed over the July 4 weekend, perhaps because more surly flaggers than magnanimous admins were online.) Also, I find it ironic that people are downvoting my defense of forum-moderation. Don't they realize their downvotes are -- by causing my comment to fade and drop out of view -- censoring me? Hypocritical basterds! :) edit: added 2nd paragraph with more anecdotal examples

jsz0 16y ago

I'm really surprised in all 61 comments here no one has bothered to mention Apple left the "Serious Antenna Problem!" thread active. Basic forum moderation -- no need for duplicate threads on the same topic. I guess it's not quite as entertaining to look at it in an objective way though and, of course, that's what everyone on the Internet really wants: Entertainment.