6 ms·

China forbids anonymous online posts

111 points by thesanerguy 9y ago

koolio 9y ago
Is this the path the western world will take eventually? Anonymity is a very powerful tool for the masses to get their point across, it's pretty troublesome if you're the one in power.
- lucaspiller 9y ago
  Not sure why people are downvoting this, but it's a worthwhile discussion to be had. Given the way the U.K. is going by trying to ban encryption, if that goes ahead I wouldn't be surprised to see this as the next step.
user5994461 9y ago
>>> China forbids anonymous online posts Clickbait title. The article doesn't even say that.
- Illniyar 9y ago
  It's right there in the title
- beefsack 9y ago
  The title doesn't seem entirely dissimilar: > China doubles down on real-name registration laws, forbidding anonymous online posts
  - user5994461 9y ago
    It's not in the content.
    - Retric 9y ago
      Direct quote: "According to the new regulations, Internet companies and service providers are responsible for requesting and verifying real names from users when they register and must immediately report illegal content to the authorities."
      - SquareWheel 9y ago
        That would mean that they must use real names when signing up with an ISP, no? The title implied that they must also use real names when registering to a website. "anonymous online posts"
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        Retric 9y ago
        It's 'Internet companies and service providers' service providers = ISP, Internet companies = Facebook "the country’s top Internet censor announced a new set of regulations (link via Google Translate) meant to eliminate posts by anonymous users on Internet forums and other platforms." Just click on the link for a reasonable translation of the rule.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
    - gyosko 9y ago
      > Last Friday, the country’s top Internet censor announced a new set of regulations (link via Google Translate) meant to eliminate posts by anonymous users on Internet forums and other platforms.
    - thesanerguy 9y ago
      I had to cut down the title because of 80 characters limit (tried using the full title but got an error), so chose this phrase from the headline. Sorry if it felt like a click-bait. Also, the post is all about how China is eliminating posts by anonymous users on Internet. Not sure what you mean by "its not in the content"?
- nl 9y ago
  The TechCrunch article doesn't say that, and the link to the translated article didn't work for me. BUT, if you translate the regulation itself (http://www.cac.gov.cn/2017-08/25/c_1121541921.htm http://www.cac.gov.cn/2017-08/25/c_1121541921.htm) it does appear that it outlaws forum posts by anonymous users: These Provisions shall apply to the Internet forums within the territory of the People 's Republic of China. The term "Internet forum community service" as mentioned in these Provisions refers to the provision of interactive information publishing community platform in the form of forums, postings, communities and so on. then Article 8 Internet forum community service providers shall, in accordance with the principle of "backstage real name and front desk voluntarily", require the user to register the account through the authentication of the authenticity information and carry out the verification of the true identity information of the sponsor and the manager. Users do not provide real identity information, Internet forum community service providers shall not provide information dissemination services. So yes, this does seem to require real name verification for forums. (Also, Google Translate is a miracle of the age)
stephengillie 9y ago
> The CAC also specified what content is forbidden from being published online (link and translation via Google Translate), citing a list from a 2000 bill regulating Internet information services in China. The list is so broad that it can cover almost anything: Article 15 of the Measures for the Administration of Internet Information Services stipulates that Internet information service providers shall not make, reproduce, publish or disseminate information containing the following: (1) opposing the basic principles as defined in the Constitution; (2) endangering national security (3) to damage national honor and interests; (4) to incite national hatred, ethnic discrimination and undermine national unity; (v) to undermine national religious policies and to promote cults and (6) spreading rumors, disrupting social order and destroying social stability; (7) spreading pornography, pornography, gambling, violence, murder, terror or abetting a crime; (8) insulting or slandering others and infringing upon others (9) Any other content that is prohibited by laws and administrative regulations.
- thriftwy 9y ago
  Pornography looks like a howler in this list. What's with pornography in China? I understand they make face that they oppose it, but I imagine it's quite impossible to make 1G people not try to push this envelope. How does it work? Are there any articles about state of things?
  - baldfat 9y ago
    South Korea also forbid pornography.
    - thriftwy 9y ago
      How well does it work for them in practice?
      - mac01021 9y ago
        Anecdotally, I've met Chinese college students who thought of pornographic movies as "those Japanese videos".
tim333 9y ago
Related discussion from yesterday (177 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15109626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15109626
userbinator 9y ago
As I understand it, this only applies to services hosted within China; if you can get past the Great Firewall and into the "greater Internet", then you're free to post as anonymously as you want.
- Gracana 9y ago
  I always assumed bypassing the firewall was illegal too. Is that not true?
  - steaktartaar_ 9y ago
    As far as I'm aware, bypassing the firewall is not illegal, just highly discouraged. We openly bypassed the firewall to access Google Analytics data through VPN and nobody batted an eye. China can't afford to crack down on that without scaring off pretty much every foreign company looking to do business on the mainland.
theklub 9y ago
Next headline "Chinese government approval online sky rockets."
tfcata 9y ago
Well South Korea also requires real name when posting on major websites. I wonder why nobody made a fuss about that when they did it many years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_South_Korea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_South...
- ekianjo 9y ago
  This is about all websites, not just "major ones", at least that is my understand from the article on TC.
  - tfcata 9y ago
    as long as the set of 'major ones' remains dynamic, it doesn't matter which one gets censored. Make sense?
- westiseast 9y ago
  Is your point that S.Korea does it, so it's OK? Or that we're all a bunch of hypocrites and shouldn't comment? This sounds like whataboutism - if you follow the link and read the wikipedia page, it seems like lots of people made lots of fuss about it, including the United Nations, EFF, S.Korean press etc.
  - sweep4r 9y ago
    And the Earth keeps spinning.
    - sctb 9y ago
      You've been posting a lot of unsubstantive or uncivil comments. Could you please re-read the guidelines and stop doing this? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - tfcata 9y ago
    If you read it careful enough you will notice the criticism cited there includes things like blog posts and UN speeches, nothing comparable to TC articles in terms of range of influence. Now what's so special about this incident so it's worth a whole precious TC headline to make everyone aware of it?
purple-again 9y ago
Imagine how much better the discussion would be on sites like Reddit if the default was Real Identity and some sections were anonymous. How much better Amazon reviews would be. The return of commment sections on major news articles (the shit show or sexist racist trolls would stop almost immediately if you faced real life consequences). I wonder if there is a market for a verified Online Real Identity service that could be used to solve some of these cancerous corners of the internet that comes with anonymity.
- amelius 9y ago
  I'm not sure. Some subreddits cover pretty private stuff, like coping with disorders, or recreational drugs. These wouldn't exist without anonymous posting.
- icelancer 9y ago
  >>the shit show or sexist racist trolls would stop almost immediately if you faced real life consequences Facebook comments don't seem to stop these. I'm shocked at what people post under their real name with a social media link handy.
  - purple-again 9y ago
    Fair point. The counter argument is there is no work around when Bob gets banned from CNN for constant racism. He can't create another account and start up again. The service could have cleaned itself up instead of being removed.
  - jamesrcole 9y ago
    On a bit of a tangent, I wonder if it'd help things if it was easy to view all the comments a person has made using their FB identity? There'd be a much stronger sense in which their comments are associated with them, and potentially a greater disincentive on being a dick.
- pjc50 9y ago
  Plenty of people are happy to post horrible abuse under their own names, including in national newpapers. Like Katie "final solution " Hopkins. The problem is that social reprisals depend on social status; part of privilege is being able to post abuse without adverse consequences.
Kenji 9y ago
Today we will say "Oh what an authoritarian, horrible regime China is, this will never happen here." Tomorrow we will say "Well, our government just passed a law that all websites with accounts must identify the user with an ID or a passport. I guess we have to live with it. It has some upsides, you know, there are less trolls."

111 points by thesanerguy 9y ago

Is this the path the western world will take eventually? Anonymity is a very powerful tool for the masses to get their point across, it's pretty troublesome if you're the one in power.

lucaspiller 9y ago
Not sure why people are downvoting this, but it's a worthwhile discussion to be had. Given the way the U.K. is going by trying to ban encryption, if that goes ahead I wouldn't be surprised to see this as the next step.

user5994461 9y ago

>>> China forbids anonymous online posts Clickbait title. The article doesn't even say that.

Illniyar 9y ago
It's right there in the title
beefsack 9y ago
The title doesn't seem entirely dissimilar: > China doubles down on real-name registration laws, forbidding anonymous online posts
- user5994461 9y ago
  It's not in the content.
  - Retric 9y ago
    Direct quote: "According to the new regulations, Internet companies and service providers are responsible for requesting and verifying real names from users when they register and must immediately report illegal content to the authorities."
    - SquareWheel 9y ago
      That would mean that they must use real names when signing up with an ISP, no? The title implied that they must also use real names when registering to a website. "anonymous online posts"
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - Retric 9y ago
        It's 'Internet companies and service providers' service providers = ISP, Internet companies = Facebook "the country’s top Internet censor announced a new set of regulations (link via Google Translate) meant to eliminate posts by anonymous users on Internet forums and other platforms." Just click on the link for a reasonable translation of the rule.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - gyosko 9y ago
    > Last Friday, the country’s top Internet censor announced a new set of regulations (link via Google Translate) meant to eliminate posts by anonymous users on Internet forums and other platforms.
  - thesanerguy 9y ago
    I had to cut down the title because of 80 characters limit (tried using the full title but got an error), so chose this phrase from the headline. Sorry if it felt like a click-bait. Also, the post is all about how China is eliminating posts by anonymous users on Internet. Not sure what you mean by "its not in the content"?
nl 9y ago
The TechCrunch article doesn't say that, and the link to the translated article didn't work for me. BUT, if you translate the regulation itself (http://www.cac.gov.cn/2017-08/25/c_1121541921.htm http://www.cac.gov.cn/2017-08/25/c_1121541921.htm) it does appear that it outlaws forum posts by anonymous users: These Provisions shall apply to the Internet forums within the territory of the People 's Republic of China. The term "Internet forum community service" as mentioned in these Provisions refers to the provision of interactive information publishing community platform in the form of forums, postings, communities and so on. then Article 8 Internet forum community service providers shall, in accordance with the principle of "backstage real name and front desk voluntarily", require the user to register the account through the authentication of the authenticity information and carry out the verification of the true identity information of the sponsor and the manager. Users do not provide real identity information, Internet forum community service providers shall not provide information dissemination services. So yes, this does seem to require real name verification for forums. (Also, Google Translate is a miracle of the age)

stephengillie 9y ago

> The CAC also specified what content is forbidden from being published online (link and translation via Google Translate), citing a list from a 2000 bill regulating Internet information services in China. The list is so broad that it can cover almost anything: Article 15 of the Measures for the Administration of Internet Information Services stipulates that Internet information service providers shall not make, reproduce, publish or disseminate information containing the following: (1) opposing the basic principles as defined in the Constitution; (2) endangering national security (3) to damage national honor and interests; (4) to incite national hatred, ethnic discrimination and undermine national unity; (v) to undermine national religious policies and to promote cults and (6) spreading rumors, disrupting social order and destroying social stability; (7) spreading pornography, pornography, gambling, violence, murder, terror or abetting a crime; (8) insulting or slandering others and infringing upon others (9) Any other content that is prohibited by laws and administrative regulations.

thriftwy 9y ago
Pornography looks like a howler in this list. What's with pornography in China? I understand they make face that they oppose it, but I imagine it's quite impossible to make 1G people not try to push this envelope. How does it work? Are there any articles about state of things?
- baldfat 9y ago
  South Korea also forbid pornography.
  - thriftwy 9y ago
    How well does it work for them in practice?
    - mac01021 9y ago
      Anecdotally, I've met Chinese college students who thought of pornographic movies as "those Japanese videos".

tim333 9y ago

Related discussion from yesterday (177 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15109626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15109626

userbinator 9y ago

As I understand it, this only applies to services hosted within China; if you can get past the Great Firewall and into the "greater Internet", then you're free to post as anonymously as you want.

Gracana 9y ago
I always assumed bypassing the firewall was illegal too. Is that not true?
- steaktartaar_ 9y ago
  As far as I'm aware, bypassing the firewall is not illegal, just highly discouraged. We openly bypassed the firewall to access Google Analytics data through VPN and nobody batted an eye. China can't afford to crack down on that without scaring off pretty much every foreign company looking to do business on the mainland.

theklub 9y ago

Next headline "Chinese government approval online sky rockets."

tfcata 9y ago

Well South Korea also requires real name when posting on major websites. I wonder why nobody made a fuss about that when they did it many years ago. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_South_Korea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_South...

ekianjo 9y ago
This is about all websites, not just "major ones", at least that is my understand from the article on TC.
- tfcata 9y ago
  as long as the set of 'major ones' remains dynamic, it doesn't matter which one gets censored. Make sense?
westiseast 9y ago
Is your point that S.Korea does it, so it's OK? Or that we're all a bunch of hypocrites and shouldn't comment? This sounds like whataboutism - if you follow the link and read the wikipedia page, it seems like lots of people made lots of fuss about it, including the United Nations, EFF, S.Korean press etc.
- sweep4r 9y ago
  And the Earth keeps spinning.
  - sctb 9y ago
    You've been posting a lot of unsubstantive or uncivil comments. Could you please re-read the guidelines and stop doing this? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tfcata 9y ago
  If you read it careful enough you will notice the criticism cited there includes things like blog posts and UN speeches, nothing comparable to TC articles in terms of range of influence. Now what's so special about this incident so it's worth a whole precious TC headline to make everyone aware of it?

purple-again 9y ago

Imagine how much better the discussion would be on sites like Reddit if the default was Real Identity and some sections were anonymous. How much better Amazon reviews would be. The return of commment sections on major news articles (the shit show or sexist racist trolls would stop almost immediately if you faced real life consequences). I wonder if there is a market for a verified Online Real Identity service that could be used to solve some of these cancerous corners of the internet that comes with anonymity.

amelius 9y ago
I'm not sure. Some subreddits cover pretty private stuff, like coping with disorders, or recreational drugs. These wouldn't exist without anonymous posting.
icelancer 9y ago
>>the shit show or sexist racist trolls would stop almost immediately if you faced real life consequences Facebook comments don't seem to stop these. I'm shocked at what people post under their real name with a social media link handy.
- purple-again 9y ago
  Fair point. The counter argument is there is no work around when Bob gets banned from CNN for constant racism. He can't create another account and start up again. The service could have cleaned itself up instead of being removed.
- jamesrcole 9y ago
  On a bit of a tangent, I wonder if it'd help things if it was easy to view all the comments a person has made using their FB identity? There'd be a much stronger sense in which their comments are associated with them, and potentially a greater disincentive on being a dick.
pjc50 9y ago
Plenty of people are happy to post horrible abuse under their own names, including in national newpapers. Like Katie "final solution " Hopkins. The problem is that social reprisals depend on social status; part of privilege is being able to post abuse without adverse consequences.

Kenji 9y ago

Today we will say "Oh what an authoritarian, horrible regime China is, this will never happen here." Tomorrow we will say "Well, our government just passed a law that all websites with accounts must identify the user with an ID or a passport. I guess we have to live with it. It has some upsides, you know, there are less trolls."