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>>When I was hiring and screening hundreds of people, applications would show 'projects' completed on them as if they were real work. You have to start somewhe

>>When I was hiring and screening hundreds of people, applications would show 'projects' completed on them as if they were real work. You have to start somewhere, right? Those projects may not be "real" work but they may be enough to have given the candidate exposure to various problem domains and experience in solving problems using code, which should really be sufficient if you are hiring entry-level devs. I mean what is the difference between the projects I do on my weekends and the projects a code school student completes as part of their curriculum? At the end of the day there is only one thing that matters, and that is whether the candidate you are interviewing has the necessary skills and insights or the potential to gain them. Keep in mind that many computer science graduates can't even solve fizzbuzz.

latchkey 9y ago
As I said above, 'group effort' doesn't mean the person actually did the work or learned anything really. A project YOU do on the side means that YOU did it. =)
gfodor 9y ago
The difference between the projects you do on your weekends and projects a code school student completes are absolutely immense. An applicant with strong weekend projects implies: - They have a passion for building software - They are self directed learners - They have the initiative and determination to build things and ship them - They managed to navigate problems without having an instructor hold their hand - They actually did the work, and aren't taking credit for a group effort they may have had minimal impact on Code camp projects don't say much of anything either way to me on a resume. They don't rule out the above but they don't support it either. They basically say: - I care enough about learning to code that I paid for a code camp - I didn't get kicked out or completely fail out of the code camp - I realize that employers value seeing projects on resumes To me putting the code camp projects on a resume when they are not clearly marked as being part of that code camp is as dishonest as doing it for college projects when they are not listed under your education background. I've seen countless resumes come in where the projects from code camps are presented in a way so that the recruiter/hiring manager thinks they were self directed projects the person did on their own. The code camps know that this is a strong signal for top talent, and so they mentor the students to craft their resumes to mask the fact that the projects were assigned work. The result of this, sadly, was that enrollment in code bootcamps became a first order screen for me. I'm sure there were some good people in there. But the work required to actually decipher what the resume was actually telling me required too much effort. (It would require opening the projects they did, trying to figure out if it was assigned or not, if it was a group project, and what contributions they made directly.) In the end, this combined with the fact that many code boot camp applicants are woefully underqualified made it not worth the time to sift through them to find the best ones.
- oneneptune 9y ago
  What about bootcamp projects on the resume that are solo projects? I have 3 bootcamp projects on my resume and was the only contributor to all 3.
timr 9y ago
"Keep in mind that many computer science graduates can't even solve fizzbuzz." I have encountered far more people who repeat this "fact" than I have encountered CS graduates who actually cannot solve fizzbuzz. Closer to the truth is the statement that many computer science graduates can't solve a topcoder-elite problem, on a whiteboard, within 45 minutes, while talking out loud the entire time. Because that's closer to a real-world "fizzbuzz test" than anything I've seen on Joel Spolsky's blog. (sadly)

latchkey 9y ago

As I said above, 'group effort' doesn't mean the person actually did the work or learned anything really. A project YOU do on the side means that YOU did it. =)

gfodor 9y ago

The difference between the projects you do on your weekends and projects a code school student completes are absolutely immense. An applicant with strong weekend projects implies: - They have a passion for building software - They are self directed learners - They have the initiative and determination to build things and ship them - They managed to navigate problems without having an instructor hold their hand - They actually did the work, and aren't taking credit for a group effort they may have had minimal impact on Code camp projects don't say much of anything either way to me on a resume. They don't rule out the above but they don't support it either. They basically say: - I care enough about learning to code that I paid for a code camp - I didn't get kicked out or completely fail out of the code camp - I realize that employers value seeing projects on resumes To me putting the code camp projects on a resume when they are not clearly marked as being part of that code camp is as dishonest as doing it for college projects when they are not listed under your education background. I've seen countless resumes come in where the projects from code camps are presented in a way so that the recruiter/hiring manager thinks they were self directed projects the person did on their own. The code camps know that this is a strong signal for top talent, and so they mentor the students to craft their resumes to mask the fact that the projects were assigned work. The result of this, sadly, was that enrollment in code bootcamps became a first order screen for me. I'm sure there were some good people in there. But the work required to actually decipher what the resume was actually telling me required too much effort. (It would require opening the projects they did, trying to figure out if it was assigned or not, if it was a group project, and what contributions they made directly.) In the end, this combined with the fact that many code boot camp applicants are woefully underqualified made it not worth the time to sift through them to find the best ones.

oneneptune 9y ago
What about bootcamp projects on the resume that are solo projects? I have 3 bootcamp projects on my resume and was the only contributor to all 3.

timr 9y ago

"Keep in mind that many computer science graduates can't even solve fizzbuzz." I have encountered far more people who repeat this "fact" than I have encountered CS graduates who actually cannot solve fizzbuzz. Closer to the truth is the statement that many computer science graduates can't solve a topcoder-elite problem, on a whiteboard, within 45 minutes, while talking out loud the entire time. Because that's closer to a real-world "fizzbuzz test" than anything I've seen on Joel Spolsky's blog. (sadly)