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I don't disagree that you can pay $15K for a used car, I doubt that the average price of a used car is $15K. The average price of the first 30 used cars for sa

I don't disagree that you can pay $15K for a used car, I doubt that the average price of a used car is $15K. The average price of the first 30 used cars for sale by owner on the Seattle craigslist is $5,896: https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto Average price of the first 30 by dealer however, is $21,567: https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/ctd https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/ctd But who would be dumb enough to buy a used car from a lot?

aianus 9y ago
Why is it so dumb to buy a used car off the lot? I bought an Audi off lease last year. It's still under warranty, free maintenance (until 80k km), low mileage (37k km), fully loaded with options, and I saved $20k vs a new one.
- adventured 9y ago
  > Why is it so dumb to buy a used car off the lot? It's not. The parent doesn't appear to understand the used car market in the US. Most people are not buying their used cars for $6,000 off of craigslist, that's a good way to end up with a pile of junk. It's a bad idea to buy a mid-value or higher used car outside the CPO or remaining original warranty programs if you can help it, ideally from a dealer.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    Not my experience at all. Do a little research on which brands and models are reliable. Find a nicely maintained example of one of those offered by a private seller. It's going to be way cheaper than a dealer in my experience.
    - aianus 9y ago
      Nobody buys a new car and sells it two years later with low mileage. That would be a very unusual thing to do (and tax-disadvantageous where I live). They lease it and then ownership ends up with some dealer at the end of the lease.
- sbierwagen 9y ago
  Most used car dealers don't give you a warranty: https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/ctd/d/2015-bmw-x5-35i-awd-suv-clean/6275678930.html https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/ctd/d/2015-bmw-x5-35i-awd... Note the conspicious absence of the word "warranty" on this listing. If the car falls apart as you drive off the lot, you're out $35K. CPO cars have a warranty, which sharply limits your downside risk. Buying a used car from a manufacturer is a much better deal than buying it from a third party.
  - majormajor 9y ago
    Usually the factory warranty transfers on sale if the car is new enough. https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/buying-a-car-is-the-factory-warranty-transferable-228454 https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/buying-a-car-is-the-fact... Generally not as nice as CPO, but it's something.
  - dionidium 9y ago
    "If the car falls apart as you drive off the lot, you're out $35K." Obviously, cars rarely fall apart as you drive them off the lot. Yes, there could be unexpected expensive repairs. But there's basically no realistic scenario in which you're going to be out the entire $35k. I understand that you're exaggerating for effect, but it's this kind of thinking that convinces people to purchase expensive warranties that aren't (statistically) worth the price.
  - aianus 9y ago
    The manufacturer warranty has a mileage limit which at least in my case was 80k km (less than 60k miles); that's probably why it's missing from the listing you linked to.
adventured 9y ago
> But who would be dumb enough to buy a used car from a lot? Tens of millions of people. It depends entirely on what you're buying. For example if you want to buy a certified pre-owned vehicle, you're frequently going to buy it off the lot from a dealership. The CPO programs from the major manufacturers are typically excellent. If you're buying a nice used car, with relatively low miles & a recent model year, it's more often dumb to go any other way than a reputable dealer + CPO.
com2kid 9y ago
> But who would be dumb enough to buy a used car from a lot? Me, because it came with a 7 year warranty. The price was good and the dealer offers a shuttle to and from my work (or my home) when it is in for maintenance.
majormajor 9y ago
Isn't looking at Craigslist selection bias around people looking to buy/sell cheaper cars without warranties? If I had a used car worth 20K still in a maintenance window I wouldn't sell it on Craigslist. Autotrader if I wanted to private-party to max my upside, dealer if I was lazy.
- bluGill 9y ago
  Very much selection bias. Even if we add auto shopper, and the like you won't get most of the expensive cars as they are not advertised. Your 20k used car is 2-3 years old and coming off lease, or the same car as a trade in. The dealer will put it on the lot with a "just off trade" sticker and sell it. It might or might not go on Craigslist. (if it is listed the ad finishes with "and many more cars like this so some in and see") If the dealer gets too many in on trade the rest go to an auto auction. Remember, the dealer knows all the numbers that the leaser isn't told. The company who backed the lease 2-3 years ago did their best to make sure that when the car was turned in the dealer would look at the remaining value and think "profit if I buy that and sell it". The dealer is going to pay the lease company for the rest of the value of the car. If the dealer decides there isn't enough money in selling it the lease company has to send the car to an auto auction and see what price they can get. (I suspect that a lot more goes on in these cases but I don't know what)
frandroid 9y ago
Some warranty/return possibility? A friend has just gone through two returns at CarMax.
gnicholas 9y ago
> But who would be dumb enough to buy a used car from a lot? Someone who needs a loan? I've bought/sold several cars on Craigslist, and it's always all-cash. Perhaps it's possible to get a loan from a bank to buy a car off CL, but it's easier to do so at a dealership.

aianus 9y ago

Why is it so dumb to buy a used car off the lot? I bought an Audi off lease last year. It's still under warranty, free maintenance (until 80k km), low mileage (37k km), fully loaded with options, and I saved $20k vs a new one.

adventured 9y ago
> Why is it so dumb to buy a used car off the lot? It's not. The parent doesn't appear to understand the used car market in the US. Most people are not buying their used cars for $6,000 off of craigslist, that's a good way to end up with a pile of junk. It's a bad idea to buy a mid-value or higher used car outside the CPO or remaining original warranty programs if you can help it, ideally from a dealer.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Not my experience at all. Do a little research on which brands and models are reliable. Find a nicely maintained example of one of those offered by a private seller. It's going to be way cheaper than a dealer in my experience.
  - aianus 9y ago
    Nobody buys a new car and sells it two years later with low mileage. That would be a very unusual thing to do (and tax-disadvantageous where I live). They lease it and then ownership ends up with some dealer at the end of the lease.
sbierwagen 9y ago
Most used car dealers don't give you a warranty: https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/ctd/d/2015-bmw-x5-35i-awd-suv-clean/6275678930.html https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/ctd/d/2015-bmw-x5-35i-awd... Note the conspicious absence of the word "warranty" on this listing. If the car falls apart as you drive off the lot, you're out $35K. CPO cars have a warranty, which sharply limits your downside risk. Buying a used car from a manufacturer is a much better deal than buying it from a third party.
- majormajor 9y ago
  Usually the factory warranty transfers on sale if the car is new enough. https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/buying-a-car-is-the-factory-warranty-transferable-228454 https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/buying-a-car-is-the-fact... Generally not as nice as CPO, but it's something.
- dionidium 9y ago
  "If the car falls apart as you drive off the lot, you're out $35K." Obviously, cars rarely fall apart as you drive them off the lot. Yes, there could be unexpected expensive repairs. But there's basically no realistic scenario in which you're going to be out the entire $35k. I understand that you're exaggerating for effect, but it's this kind of thinking that convinces people to purchase expensive warranties that aren't (statistically) worth the price.
- aianus 9y ago
  The manufacturer warranty has a mileage limit which at least in my case was 80k km (less than 60k miles); that's probably why it's missing from the listing you linked to.

adventured 9y ago

> But who would be dumb enough to buy a used car from a lot? Tens of millions of people. It depends entirely on what you're buying. For example if you want to buy a certified pre-owned vehicle, you're frequently going to buy it off the lot from a dealership. The CPO programs from the major manufacturers are typically excellent. If you're buying a nice used car, with relatively low miles & a recent model year, it's more often dumb to go any other way than a reputable dealer + CPO.

com2kid 9y ago

> But who would be dumb enough to buy a used car from a lot? Me, because it came with a 7 year warranty. The price was good and the dealer offers a shuttle to and from my work (or my home) when it is in for maintenance.

majormajor 9y ago

Isn't looking at Craigslist selection bias around people looking to buy/sell cheaper cars without warranties? If I had a used car worth 20K still in a maintenance window I wouldn't sell it on Craigslist. Autotrader if I wanted to private-party to max my upside, dealer if I was lazy.

bluGill 9y ago
Very much selection bias. Even if we add auto shopper, and the like you won't get most of the expensive cars as they are not advertised. Your 20k used car is 2-3 years old and coming off lease, or the same car as a trade in. The dealer will put it on the lot with a "just off trade" sticker and sell it. It might or might not go on Craigslist. (if it is listed the ad finishes with "and many more cars like this so some in and see") If the dealer gets too many in on trade the rest go to an auto auction. Remember, the dealer knows all the numbers that the leaser isn't told. The company who backed the lease 2-3 years ago did their best to make sure that when the car was turned in the dealer would look at the remaining value and think "profit if I buy that and sell it". The dealer is going to pay the lease company for the rest of the value of the car. If the dealer decides there isn't enough money in selling it the lease company has to send the car to an auto auction and see what price they can get. (I suspect that a lot more goes on in these cases but I don't know what)

frandroid 9y ago

Some warranty/return possibility? A friend has just gone through two returns at CarMax.

gnicholas 9y ago

> But who would be dumb enough to buy a used car from a lot? Someone who needs a loan? I've bought/sold several cars on Craigslist, and it's always all-cash. Perhaps it's possible to get a loan from a bank to buy a car off CL, but it's easier to do so at a dealership.