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If it is indeed GPS spoofing it must be happening to commercial vessels right? Doesn't the US military use a different, more accurate/secure version of GPS? I

by vxxzy 9y ago

If it is indeed GPS spoofing it must be happening to commercial vessels right? Doesn't the US military use a different, more accurate/secure version of GPS? It seems more likely the less secure AIS protocol is somehow being manipulated.

nradov 9y ago
Mariners don't rely on AIS for collision avoidance. It's all visual spotting, radar, lights, and horns. Everyone knows that AIS transmitters sometimes fail or get turned off. And the reported position may lag behind the actual position by several minutes.
sitharus 9y ago
Yes, the US military uses a different GPS code to the general public. It's more accurate and harder to spoof. However, these collisions could be caused by spoofing the general maritime traffic so the US ships are on the 'correct' course and everyone else is offset.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > However, these collisions could be caused by spoofing the general maritime traffic so the US ships are on the 'correct' course and everyone else is offset. These collisions could not be caused by anything but massive human failure, because while the military may exploit networked electronic conveniences to track expected civilian traffic positions, that's not supposed to be the only system they have. And they'd be useless as warships if that was their only way of detecting larger ships than their own size short of bumping into them.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
blackguardx 9y ago
GPS can be selectively denied to an area (all but US military hardware) while the US is engaged in combat. There are also military specific parts of GPS that civilian receivers can't access. I don't know if military receivers are ignoring civilian signals, though.
- wwwv 9y ago
  > There are also military specific parts of GPS that civilian receivers can't access. I don't know if military receivers are ignoring civilian signals, though. For all intents it's a different system, the packets are encrypted, the right receiver hardware gives you vastly superior accuracy. There's civilian hardware which can use the packets without decrypting them for better accuracy, there's some patents on doing this amusingly.

by vxxzy 9y ago

nradov 9y ago

Mariners don't rely on AIS for collision avoidance. It's all visual spotting, radar, lights, and horns. Everyone knows that AIS transmitters sometimes fail or get turned off. And the reported position may lag behind the actual position by several minutes.

sitharus 9y ago

Yes, the US military uses a different GPS code to the general public. It's more accurate and harder to spoof. However, these collisions could be caused by spoofing the general maritime traffic so the US ships are on the 'correct' course and everyone else is offset.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> However, these collisions could be caused by spoofing the general maritime traffic so the US ships are on the 'correct' course and everyone else is offset. These collisions could not be caused by anything but massive human failure, because while the military may exploit networked electronic conveniences to track expected civilian traffic positions, that's not supposed to be the only system they have. And they'd be useless as warships if that was their only way of detecting larger ships than their own size short of bumping into them.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

blackguardx 9y ago

GPS can be selectively denied to an area (all but US military hardware) while the US is engaged in combat. There are also military specific parts of GPS that civilian receivers can't access. I don't know if military receivers are ignoring civilian signals, though.

wwwv 9y ago
> There are also military specific parts of GPS that civilian receivers can't access. I don't know if military receivers are ignoring civilian signals, though. For all intents it's a different system, the packets are encrypted, the right receiver hardware gives you vastly superior accuracy. There's civilian hardware which can use the packets without decrypting them for better accuracy, there's some patents on doing this amusingly.