6 ms·

Or maybe they don't have an alternative to earn a decent living and would quit crime if they could find a good job? I don't know that I wouldn't sell drugs if m

by aianus 9y ago

Or maybe they don't have an alternative to earn a decent living and would quit crime if they could find a good job? I don't know that I wouldn't sell drugs if my alternative was flipping burgers at McDonald's for $1000 a month.

zo1 9y ago
Lack of opportunities for a nice lifestyle is not a justification for criminal behavior. They're on completely separate axes, and people would do well to disconnect the two. That is one of the big reasons that we're in this mess in the first place. I.e. people being unhappy with their share of the pie and using it as justification to steal/defraud, and finally to hurt when the first two don't fix their situation.
- mullen 9y ago
  > Lack of opportunities for a nice lifestyle is not a justification for criminal behavior. It's not about lifestyle, it's about eating and putting a roof over ones head. No wants to be a drug dealer, people turn drug dealer because they have no other opportunities.
  - zo1 9y ago
    The reason I said that is because the person I was responding to mentioned this: >"I don't know that I wouldn't sell drugs if my alternative was flipping burgers at McDonald's for $1000 a month." $1000 per month is at least livable and means that you're not starving or homeless. So making the choice of turning to crime to go above that is a lifestyle one.
    - cultofmetatron 9y ago
      ... where is $1000/month livable?? At that kind of wage, you can't save for the future nor can you afford anything nice.
- wjn0 9y ago
  > Lack of opportunities for a nice lifestyle is not a justification for criminal behavior. Of course it's not. Suppose you're in a situation where you have a lack of education, family/community support, and a general lack of resources. Perhaps you already have a minor conviction on your record due to racist or classist laws. The options are: have money, or don't. Do you sell drugs? In the states, where money implies safety, health care, and the means to provide for your family, while lack of money implies little security for your way of life, potentially no access to health care, and no support for your family, the choice is obvious. And yes, about half of federal prisoners in the US are for drug offences[1]. > and finally to hurt I assume you're talking about violence in general. I know you didn't argue against it, but since it's the topic of the original article, I'll state it plainly. I would rather violent offenders receive education (yes, at a cost to taxpayers), which is shown to reduce recidivism greatly, than have my taxes go to a system which favours their return to prison. [1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/releasing-drug-offenders-wont-end-mass-incarceration/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/releasing-drug-offenders...
- cultofmetatron 9y ago
  I can refute that. I would definitely sell drugs if I wasn't making more than enough money as an engineer to make the risk not worth it.
anovikov 9y ago
Not really. Criminals and non-criminals are distinct castes. Simple proof: during the last financial crisis in 2008-2009, millions of people went broke with no prospect of employment, many found themselves in desperate situations with their houses foreclosed and their spouses leaving. With your logic, that kind of invited them into crime. Yet, there weren't an increase in crime rates, crime continued to slowly decline as the generation of people who breathed lead vapors as kids in 1970s kept ageing. Being criminal is a mental issue, not a social condition.
- Fjolsvith 9y ago
  Perhaps. I knew a guy in prison doing 10 years because he punched a 15 year old in the face and broke his jaw. The guy was a black belt, and the kid jumped out at him from behind a wall and startled him. Where does that situation fall? Mental or social?

by aianus 9y ago

zo1 9y ago

Lack of opportunities for a nice lifestyle is not a justification for criminal behavior. They're on completely separate axes, and people would do well to disconnect the two. That is one of the big reasons that we're in this mess in the first place. I.e. people being unhappy with their share of the pie and using it as justification to steal/defraud, and finally to hurt when the first two don't fix their situation.

mullen 9y ago
> Lack of opportunities for a nice lifestyle is not a justification for criminal behavior. It's not about lifestyle, it's about eating and putting a roof over ones head. No wants to be a drug dealer, people turn drug dealer because they have no other opportunities.
- zo1 9y ago
  The reason I said that is because the person I was responding to mentioned this: >"I don't know that I wouldn't sell drugs if my alternative was flipping burgers at McDonald's for $1000 a month." $1000 per month is at least livable and means that you're not starving or homeless. So making the choice of turning to crime to go above that is a lifestyle one.
  - cultofmetatron 9y ago
    ... where is $1000/month livable?? At that kind of wage, you can't save for the future nor can you afford anything nice.
wjn0 9y ago
> Lack of opportunities for a nice lifestyle is not a justification for criminal behavior. Of course it's not. Suppose you're in a situation where you have a lack of education, family/community support, and a general lack of resources. Perhaps you already have a minor conviction on your record due to racist or classist laws. The options are: have money, or don't. Do you sell drugs? In the states, where money implies safety, health care, and the means to provide for your family, while lack of money implies little security for your way of life, potentially no access to health care, and no support for your family, the choice is obvious. And yes, about half of federal prisoners in the US are for drug offences[1]. > and finally to hurt I assume you're talking about violence in general. I know you didn't argue against it, but since it's the topic of the original article, I'll state it plainly. I would rather violent offenders receive education (yes, at a cost to taxpayers), which is shown to reduce recidivism greatly, than have my taxes go to a system which favours their return to prison. [1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/releasing-drug-offenders-wont-end-mass-incarceration/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/releasing-drug-offenders...
cultofmetatron 9y ago
I can refute that. I would definitely sell drugs if I wasn't making more than enough money as an engineer to make the risk not worth it.

anovikov 9y ago

Not really. Criminals and non-criminals are distinct castes. Simple proof: during the last financial crisis in 2008-2009, millions of people went broke with no prospect of employment, many found themselves in desperate situations with their houses foreclosed and their spouses leaving. With your logic, that kind of invited them into crime. Yet, there weren't an increase in crime rates, crime continued to slowly decline as the generation of people who breathed lead vapors as kids in 1970s kept ageing. Being criminal is a mental issue, not a social condition.

Fjolsvith 9y ago
Perhaps. I knew a guy in prison doing 10 years because he punched a 15 year old in the face and broke his jaw. The guy was a black belt, and the kid jumped out at him from behind a wall and startled him. Where does that situation fall? Mental or social?