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I hope so. I didn't work in in one, but worked in a cubicle as an intern, then in an office with 3 other people focusing on the same project, then in my own of

by rdtsc 9y ago

I hope so. I didn't work in in one, but worked in a cubicle as an intern, then in an office with 3 other people focusing on the same project, then in my own office with a door, now at home. But I can only imagine the sensory distraction and just can't see why anyone thought it was a good idea for software development. Sure I can see the photo-op image appeal for PR purposes "Oh look at our dynamic startup, working in an exposed brick re-purposed warehouse. So much collaboration, all the time, with everyone...". But then after the picture is taken everyone should have the option to grab an office or an isolated area to do actual work, or separate white-boarding conference room if they are talking or designing something". I also find it interesting that these large tech companies at the bleeding edge of technology like Amazon, Google, Facebook are selling digital connectivity (ads, social connections, office suites, email, video chat, messengers, cloud infrastructure) -- and still require their employees to be physically present in the same building to do work. Wonder if remote work in the next revolution in how our economy works. The more things are digitized, hopefully the less we'll be tied to a physical tech hub area. That could have pretty large effects on real estate, traffic, taxes, how developed various areas get (smaller towns might see some development) etc.

ilaksh 9y ago
It's because the large tech companies' offices have expensive real estate and just don't have the square footage to give everyone an office. I actually think that in some cases they could pull off micro-offices if they engineered ventilation and virtual windows or something, but basically it comes down to space and without some high-tech micro-offices which is not actually a thing, there is just not enough space. I mean square footage in downtown SF is at a premium. Now if they were sensible and had optional offices in less expensive areas closer to where people could get nice affordable homes, they could get a deal for the real estate and have lots of offices. Also they would need less offices because they allowed remote. But there is a distinct lack of being sensible in general. The execs have fancy offices in downtown SF so demand everyone commutes there and sits at communal tables of whatever.
- mahyarm 9y ago
  It can actually be harder to hire people to work in the east bay at union city or fremont than palo alto sometimes. Tesla recently had a problem with it when they were trying to transfer eng offices from PA to fremont for example.
  - mjmahone17 9y ago
    Is the problem hiring people to work in Fremont or is the problem transferring people who already work in Palo Alto to work in Fremont? Transferring people can often mean their commute time increases 30-40 minutes. That sucks basically regardless of whether you currently have a walking commute or hour long one. And it's not like you usually have an entire team staffed only by east-bay residents: do you split the team into two offices? Force someone to suck it up? Rotate teams through offices? All of these options will basically be traumatic for some portion of your team.
barrkel 9y ago
If you're a newbie and need to get up to speed, having an experienced person you can ask questions of every 5 to 10 minutes is a big help. And if you can design your software so that the team members are replaceable, being able to easily replacing engineers is more important than keeping them happy. IMO it only works on a certain complexity level of software, and up to a particular skill level of engineer. Beyond that, you need more specialized engineers that need more code ownership, and will be replaced less often. They'll cost more too.
- concede_pluto 9y ago
  > experienced person you can ask questions of every 5 to 10 minutes Please don't abuse your peers' goodwill this way. Write down your questions as you go, meet about stuff too abstruse to straighten out over email, and add what you learn to the docs so the next newbie will be less of a burden.
- rdtsc 9y ago
  > having an experienced person you can ask questions of every 5 to 10 minutes is a big help That is orthogonal (independent) of the office layout. I have been both the person who needed to be brought up to speed and the one who helped others get up to speed and I can't think in either case how an open office layout would have made it better. Just randomly interrupting people every 5 to 10 minutes is not the best approach and that's exactly the what's one of the problems with the open office layout -- they invite those kind of interruptions.
nnd 9y ago
Unless you work on a project alone, office work would still beat remote when it comes to communication. Surely, the tools for remote communication are getting more and more efficient, and as a remote worker your success heavily depends on your communication skills. Still being able to brainstorm ideas with your colleagues face to face is invaluable, and is one of the biggest things I miss working remotely.

by rdtsc 9y ago

ilaksh 9y ago

It's because the large tech companies' offices have expensive real estate and just don't have the square footage to give everyone an office. I actually think that in some cases they could pull off micro-offices if they engineered ventilation and virtual windows or something, but basically it comes down to space and without some high-tech micro-offices which is not actually a thing, there is just not enough space. I mean square footage in downtown SF is at a premium. Now if they were sensible and had optional offices in less expensive areas closer to where people could get nice affordable homes, they could get a deal for the real estate and have lots of offices. Also they would need less offices because they allowed remote. But there is a distinct lack of being sensible in general. The execs have fancy offices in downtown SF so demand everyone commutes there and sits at communal tables of whatever.

mahyarm 9y ago
It can actually be harder to hire people to work in the east bay at union city or fremont than palo alto sometimes. Tesla recently had a problem with it when they were trying to transfer eng offices from PA to fremont for example.
- mjmahone17 9y ago
  Is the problem hiring people to work in Fremont or is the problem transferring people who already work in Palo Alto to work in Fremont? Transferring people can often mean their commute time increases 30-40 minutes. That sucks basically regardless of whether you currently have a walking commute or hour long one. And it's not like you usually have an entire team staffed only by east-bay residents: do you split the team into two offices? Force someone to suck it up? Rotate teams through offices? All of these options will basically be traumatic for some portion of your team.

barrkel 9y ago

If you're a newbie and need to get up to speed, having an experienced person you can ask questions of every 5 to 10 minutes is a big help. And if you can design your software so that the team members are replaceable, being able to easily replacing engineers is more important than keeping them happy. IMO it only works on a certain complexity level of software, and up to a particular skill level of engineer. Beyond that, you need more specialized engineers that need more code ownership, and will be replaced less often. They'll cost more too.

concede_pluto 9y ago
> experienced person you can ask questions of every 5 to 10 minutes Please don't abuse your peers' goodwill this way. Write down your questions as you go, meet about stuff too abstruse to straighten out over email, and add what you learn to the docs so the next newbie will be less of a burden.
rdtsc 9y ago
> having an experienced person you can ask questions of every 5 to 10 minutes is a big help That is orthogonal (independent) of the office layout. I have been both the person who needed to be brought up to speed and the one who helped others get up to speed and I can't think in either case how an open office layout would have made it better. Just randomly interrupting people every 5 to 10 minutes is not the best approach and that's exactly the what's one of the problems with the open office layout -- they invite those kind of interruptions.

nnd 9y ago

Unless you work on a project alone, office work would still beat remote when it comes to communication. Surely, the tools for remote communication are getting more and more efficient, and as a remote worker your success heavily depends on your communication skills. Still being able to brainstorm ideas with your colleagues face to face is invaluable, and is one of the biggest things I miss working remotely.