5 ms·

PS4 and Switch have at least no peer-to-peer download. Win10 and XboxOne have peer-to-peer download - who would want that, bad for users, wasting upload bandwi

by frik 9y ago

PS4 and Switch have at least no peer-to-peer download. Win10 and XboxOne have peer-to-peer download - who would want that, bad for users, wasting upload bandwidth and counts against your monthly internet consumption. https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/3rhs4s/xbox_updates_can_we_disable_p2p/ https://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/3rhs4s/xbox_update...

derefr 9y ago
It works well if both devices are on the same LAN. Like inside a corporate office. What organization has multiple XBOs, though? Game dev studios? Hospitals? It must be much rarer than the Win10 case.
- cwyers 9y ago
  My house.
- kec 9y ago
  college dorms
  - ygra 9y ago
    Don't those put everyone on a different VLAN? At least that was the case when I was in uni.
tortasaur 9y ago
I want that, as it normalizes the need for large upload bandwidth. The only reason it's such a scarce commodity now is that households aren't perceived as needing that bandwidth. The proliferation of legal peer-to-peer systems will hopefully drive the spread of symmetric connections.
- MBCook 9y ago
  One of the reasons I switched off of AT&T uVerse is they seemed to give you the absolute minimum upload bandwidth needed to achieve the advertised download bandwidth. So if you were downloading or streaming and uploaded anything more than a small image your download speed would plummet as you ran out of upstream bandwidth. Online backups/syncing? Hope you're not trying to do anything else that requires bandwidth.
  - apenwarr 9y ago
    That's not quite right. The most common problem with (especially, but not only) DSL is bufferbloat, where you fill up your upload buffers, and this greatly increases RTT. Then your ACKs in response to downloaded content will take a long time to get through the queue and tell the server it's okay to send more data. You would have to have a truly tiny upload speed limit (like 0.01 Mbps) for the actual ACK throughput to be the limiting factor. You can work around bufferbloat if you have a DSL modem with fq_codel (rare), or if you insert a router with a rate limiter and fq_codel, so basically you never fill up your DSL modem's queue.
    - MBCook 9y ago
      Ah. What I posted is my assumption of what was going wrong. Buffer bloat makes sense. Thanks. I 'solved' it by going to a provider with more upstream (cable) then later fiber. Even without this issue the download speed wasn't very good for the price so leaving was an easy decision.
      - namibj 9y ago
        You could also use μTP for transfering the data to a rented server and then from there to wherever you need. That protocol is designed to fill the pipe as much as possible, i.e. never let it dry out, while bloating the buffer as little as possible, by basically doing minimum one-way ping measurements and then using a target delay that is choosen so that the minimum delay is never actually hit. it does slow down internet browsing though, so you have to be carefull if there are other users who like to complain. the bandwith is not affected and it does yield to tcp though.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    > Hope you're not trying to do anything else that requires bandwidth. I get the same on Sky (UK) ADSL (fibre[TTC] seems to be unaffected). When I'm uploading e.g. a video to YouTube, even something like Hacker News will often time out.
    - 9y ago
deelowe 9y ago
Do people really have issues with bandwith limits on uploads? I've always heard the opposite. Is it P2P or more like torrent where there are multiple peers? That would make more sense. At the end of the day, isn't the switch and xbox faster at downloading? That's what really matters.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  My network has multiple iOS devices, two computers and a bunch of appliance devices I also use voip. Maxing out the standard 3mb uplink is easy when photos sync or any number of other use cases.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    3mb uplink? That’s... I’m sorry for you. Maybe you can find another ISP, I’m in northern Germany and my ISP provides 100mbps down, 40mbps up via DSL.
    - Spooky23 9y ago
      Now I pay extra for "enhanced" service. 50/5! Here in America we believe that competition involves 1 cable company and one legacy phone company who offers 2/0.5 DSL for $70/mo, and will not actually install it if you try!
- MBCook 9y ago
  Many companies offer asymmetric bandwidth, especially on DSL. So depending on what kind of broadband you have you may not have much upload bandwidth at all. See my other comment in this post for an example.
- seabrookmx 9y ago
  Yes definitely. For example, my home connection (in Western Canada) is 150mb down and 15mbit up. For general home usage (Streaming Netflix and whatnot), you definitely need more download than upload, but if I'm working from home over VPN, syncing pictures to Dropbox, etc. you can definitely saturate 15mb. And most North American households have much less bandwidth than I do.

by frik 9y ago

derefr 9y ago

It works well if both devices are on the same LAN. Like inside a corporate office. What organization has multiple XBOs, though? Game dev studios? Hospitals? It must be much rarer than the Win10 case.

cwyers 9y ago
My house.
kec 9y ago
college dorms
- ygra 9y ago
  Don't those put everyone on a different VLAN? At least that was the case when I was in uni.

tortasaur 9y ago

I want that, as it normalizes the need for large upload bandwidth. The only reason it's such a scarce commodity now is that households aren't perceived as needing that bandwidth. The proliferation of legal peer-to-peer systems will hopefully drive the spread of symmetric connections.

MBCook 9y ago
One of the reasons I switched off of AT&T uVerse is they seemed to give you the absolute minimum upload bandwidth needed to achieve the advertised download bandwidth. So if you were downloading or streaming and uploaded anything more than a small image your download speed would plummet as you ran out of upstream bandwidth. Online backups/syncing? Hope you're not trying to do anything else that requires bandwidth.
- apenwarr 9y ago
  That's not quite right. The most common problem with (especially, but not only) DSL is bufferbloat, where you fill up your upload buffers, and this greatly increases RTT. Then your ACKs in response to downloaded content will take a long time to get through the queue and tell the server it's okay to send more data. You would have to have a truly tiny upload speed limit (like 0.01 Mbps) for the actual ACK throughput to be the limiting factor. You can work around bufferbloat if you have a DSL modem with fq_codel (rare), or if you insert a router with a rate limiter and fq_codel, so basically you never fill up your DSL modem's queue.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    Ah. What I posted is my assumption of what was going wrong. Buffer bloat makes sense. Thanks. I 'solved' it by going to a provider with more upstream (cable) then later fiber. Even without this issue the download speed wasn't very good for the price so leaving was an easy decision.
    - namibj 9y ago
      You could also use μTP for transfering the data to a rented server and then from there to wherever you need. That protocol is designed to fill the pipe as much as possible, i.e. never let it dry out, while bloating the buffer as little as possible, by basically doing minimum one-way ping measurements and then using a target delay that is choosen so that the minimum delay is never actually hit. it does slow down internet browsing though, so you have to be carefull if there are other users who like to complain. the bandwith is not affected and it does yield to tcp though.
- stordoff 9y ago
  > Hope you're not trying to do anything else that requires bandwidth. I get the same on Sky (UK) ADSL (fibre[TTC] seems to be unaffected). When I'm uploading e.g. a video to YouTube, even something like Hacker News will often time out.
  - 9y ago

deelowe 9y ago

Do people really have issues with bandwith limits on uploads? I've always heard the opposite. Is it P2P or more like torrent where there are multiple peers? That would make more sense. At the end of the day, isn't the switch and xbox faster at downloading? That's what really matters.

Spooky23 9y ago
My network has multiple iOS devices, two computers and a bunch of appliance devices I also use voip. Maxing out the standard 3mb uplink is easy when photos sync or any number of other use cases.
- kuschku 9y ago
  3mb uplink? That’s... I’m sorry for you. Maybe you can find another ISP, I’m in northern Germany and my ISP provides 100mbps down, 40mbps up via DSL.
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    Now I pay extra for "enhanced" service. 50/5! Here in America we believe that competition involves 1 cable company and one legacy phone company who offers 2/0.5 DSL for $70/mo, and will not actually install it if you try!
MBCook 9y ago
Many companies offer asymmetric bandwidth, especially on DSL. So depending on what kind of broadband you have you may not have much upload bandwidth at all. See my other comment in this post for an example.
seabrookmx 9y ago
Yes definitely. For example, my home connection (in Western Canada) is 150mb down and 15mbit up. For general home usage (Streaming Netflix and whatnot), you definitely need more download than upload, but if I'm working from home over VPN, syncing pictures to Dropbox, etc. you can definitely saturate 15mb. And most North American households have much less bandwidth than I do.