8 ms·

"Unlike most browser-based email, which is server-based, Superhuman can store and index gigabytes of email in the web browser itself." Did I miss something, or

"Unlike most browser-based email, which is server-based, Superhuman can store and index gigabytes of email in the web browser itself." Did I miss something, or what technology can store gigabytes in a web browser?! Unless they are compressing email aggressively (possible) and storing in SessionStorage/LocalStorage, decompressing on the fly... then this sounds like marketing fluff, or just written poorly.

sixdimensional 9y ago
Never mind... seems it is a Chrome-specific web app... "For this reason, the browser version of the email app only works in Google Chrome"
- oneplane 9y ago
  So it's a local email client. Basically, what we already have but written in a less efficient language...
  - throwaway91111 9y ago
    Yea, but this enables things like e2e encryption without losing a search index.
    - blibble 9y ago
      if it's a chrome extension there's nothing stopping a court forcing Google to add a modification for a certain user no different to having your javascript decryption routines done by a website
      - throwaway91111 9y ago
        Sure, but presumably if you're worried about it you can sideload your own version. Nonetheless you're absolutely correct; i would prefer firefox to chrome.
      - j45 9y ago
        I have found Chromium to be a nice alternative to keep local browser apps working as it freezes the browser version instead of automatic upgrades, which have regularly broken web based line of business applications I have been around the past few years.
  - freshhawk 9y ago
    A less efficient language with a much better UI toolkit, seems a reasonable trade-off to make for a lot of people.
    - nradov 9y ago
      Better how?
    - mixedCase 9y ago
      > with a much better UI toolkit I just made this as a reply in another thread where the user essentially believed you couldn't have a nice GUI (his example was VS Code) with a native toolkit that's also easy to develop in: https://i.imgur.com/RPr6VMS.png https://i.imgur.com/RPr6VMS.png https://gitlab.com/mixedCase/poc-qml-vscode https://gitlab.com/mixedCase/poc-qml-vscode We've had the tools for a long time in desktop, let's not pretend we don't.
      - qq66 9y ago
        Microsoft has tremendous resources, it's definitely costlier to build a great desktop UI than a great Web UI (but the great Eat desktop UIs are always better).
        danieldk 9y ago
        Microsoft has tremendous resources, it's definitely costlier to build a great desktop UI than a great Web UI What? Let's not rewrite history. I has been easy and cheap to create desktop UIs for decades, literally. I was using Borland Delphi 1.0 as a 13 year old and could have a basic Windows UI app up and running in ten minutes. There have been many great cross-platform and platform-specific toolkits that are easy to use. E.g. you can teach someone with some Python knowledge how to make basic Qt desktop applications in one hour or so. It's literally as simple as dragging some widgets to a window and writing some lines of wrapper code. I recommend anyone who thinks that developing applications using web UIs is easier/cheaper to look at some Delphi 1.0 videos. E.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_3K_0vjUhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_3K_0vjUhk This was how we developed desktop applications 22 years ago on machines with 4 or 8 MB RAM. And it is still a whole lot easier and more efficient than a web app.
  - gaius 9y ago
    So it's a local email client. Basically, what we already have but written in a less efficient language... Right. This is as if Outlook was written in VBA and ran inside Word.
- dchuk 9y ago
  Weird that the screenshots in the article are clearly in Safari: https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/superhuman-clients.png?w=1358&h=796 https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/superhu...
  - phonon 9y ago
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneOwnsAMac http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneOwnsAMac
  - dmix 9y ago
    Most PSD templates for screenshots are Macbook screens + Safari. Having designed a number of landing pages for startups I'm really not surprised that the designer they hired for their website chose to use that (without considering the current browser support). As the other commenter pointed out it's a safe bet for marketing purposes and looks best aesthetically. But the confusion here could be a real problem for early adopters.
    - nexpure 9y ago
      Designer here. This is accurate. The long story is, this site was mocked a bit before all the final technical details were scoped out for the project. It's in need of a visual refresh to more accurately represent the platforms we use.
thephyber 9y ago
https://developer.chrome.com/apps/offline_storage#types https://developer.chrome.com/apps/offline_storage#types Apparently it's possible, assuming the device has a sufficiently large storage and, I'm assuming, the user accepts.
ISL 9y ago
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. Mutt, Pine, Eudora, and Thunderbird, welcome home.
- throwawaywonk 9y ago
  All that's old is new again!
- yeukhon 9y ago
  Yeah, except the way I read OP's comment is he thought the whole implementation (server, storage, etc) was all local in the browser. But this is NOT the case (I thought that was the case too initially).
wodenokoto 9y ago
its an off-line email client that is accessed via chrome. think electron app, but without electron, and instead running directly in chrome.
- lnx01 9y ago
  An electron app, without electron, accessed via chrome in chrome? ... So, a ... Webapp? You mean like, gmail.com or outlook.com?
  - m_mueller 9y ago
    Apperently more like a plugin. Pure web technologies don't give you more than a couple 100mb of local storage (at best).
    - reissbaker 9y ago
      I don't know whether Superhuman will be a plugin or not, but there's no reason it would have to be; IndexedDB can provide gigabytes of space, and it's standardized, and current versions of Chrome, FF, and Safari all support it.
      - m_mueller 9y ago
        Depends if you consider IE and Mobile Safari as a required target. They have 250MB and 50MB limits, respectively. But yes, if these can be omitted then IndexedDB API seems fine nowadays. Edit: MS Edge also has 250MB-500MB; they're just always playing catch up, even when their market share has dwindled...
        egeozcan 9y ago
        Does the spec define the minimum amount of space the browser must allocate?
      - colordrops 9y ago
        Can normal webpages access IMAP and SMTP servers?
jgalt212 9y ago
no dice on an iPhone, 5MB/10MB storage limit for LocalStorage. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1921048/limit-of-localstorage-on-iphone https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1921048/limit-of-localst...
- tim333 9y ago
  You could turn it into an app to get over that.
reissbaker 9y ago
IndexedDB can store a huge amount of data — your browser will allow up to 50% of the free space on your machine to be used. [1] In most cases that would be gigabytes. IndexedDB doesn't have full browser support yet (Edge is listed as having "partial support" [2]), but Chrome, Firefox, and recent versions of Safari all support it. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/IndexedDB_API/Browser_storage_limits_and_eviction_criteria https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/IndexedDB_A... [2] http://caniuse.com/indexeddb/embed/ http://caniuse.com/indexeddb/embed/
- exikyut 9y ago
  > IndexedDB can store a huge amount of data ... In most cases that would be gigabytes. You are of course right, but it's always good to surface pathological worst-case scenarios as interesting counterbalances. IndexedDB has really, really REALLY bad performance. It's like a turtle that's been trapped in molasses. I did some benchmarks on my (old) laptop here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42288596/websql-has-increasing-browser-support-whats-its-future https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42288596/websql-has-incr... For a particularly rare edge case, I periodically have to SIGKILL Chrome so it doesn't crash (due to failed SQLite assertions) when my disk gets full and I have to shuffle things around to make space. In the last instance of this taking place, / had 820KB free. (Context would probably be useful here: I have a 15+-year long diskspace issue created by being given many many old computers with tiny hard drives and not having the infrastructure/knowhow (when I was younger) to move/sync active projects between machines. I just need to get a couple large HDDs so I can collect and dedupe everything, but I can't work due to health issues so that's proving... fun. This is also blocking all kinds of things such as getting my first smartphone, so I have nowhere to back it up onto!)
  - voltagex_ 9y ago
    You've got no contact details in your profile but in the very small chance that you're in Australia, I've got a number of spare hard drives I could give you.
    - 9y ago
tim333 9y ago
Apparently with Chrome extensions if you put "permissions": [ "unlimitedStorage" ] in the manifest.json then "The size of unlimited storage is limited only by the availability of space in the user's hard drive." Not quite sure if that's how they do it.
- blusterXY 9y ago
  I'm dealing with this same issue now actually. The browser can also just wipe the data anytime if it feels it is running out of space.
CyberDildonics 9y ago
With unhinged marketing, anything is possible* *in the near future

sixdimensional 9y ago

Never mind... seems it is a Chrome-specific web app... "For this reason, the browser version of the email app only works in Google Chrome"

oneplane 9y ago
So it's a local email client. Basically, what we already have but written in a less efficient language...
- throwaway91111 9y ago
  Yea, but this enables things like e2e encryption without losing a search index.
  - blibble 9y ago
    if it's a chrome extension there's nothing stopping a court forcing Google to add a modification for a certain user no different to having your javascript decryption routines done by a website
    - throwaway91111 9y ago
      Sure, but presumably if you're worried about it you can sideload your own version. Nonetheless you're absolutely correct; i would prefer firefox to chrome.
    - j45 9y ago
      I have found Chromium to be a nice alternative to keep local browser apps working as it freezes the browser version instead of automatic upgrades, which have regularly broken web based line of business applications I have been around the past few years.
- freshhawk 9y ago
  A less efficient language with a much better UI toolkit, seems a reasonable trade-off to make for a lot of people.
  - nradov 9y ago
    Better how?
  - mixedCase 9y ago
    > with a much better UI toolkit I just made this as a reply in another thread where the user essentially believed you couldn't have a nice GUI (his example was VS Code) with a native toolkit that's also easy to develop in: https://i.imgur.com/RPr6VMS.png https://i.imgur.com/RPr6VMS.png https://gitlab.com/mixedCase/poc-qml-vscode https://gitlab.com/mixedCase/poc-qml-vscode We've had the tools for a long time in desktop, let's not pretend we don't.
    - qq66 9y ago
      Microsoft has tremendous resources, it's definitely costlier to build a great desktop UI than a great Web UI (but the great Eat desktop UIs are always better).
      - danieldk 9y ago
        Microsoft has tremendous resources, it's definitely costlier to build a great desktop UI than a great Web UI What? Let's not rewrite history. I has been easy and cheap to create desktop UIs for decades, literally. I was using Borland Delphi 1.0 as a 13 year old and could have a basic Windows UI app up and running in ten minutes. There have been many great cross-platform and platform-specific toolkits that are easy to use. E.g. you can teach someone with some Python knowledge how to make basic Qt desktop applications in one hour or so. It's literally as simple as dragging some widgets to a window and writing some lines of wrapper code. I recommend anyone who thinks that developing applications using web UIs is easier/cheaper to look at some Delphi 1.0 videos. E.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_3K_0vjUhk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_3K_0vjUhk This was how we developed desktop applications 22 years ago on machines with 4 or 8 MB RAM. And it is still a whole lot easier and more efficient than a web app.
- gaius 9y ago
  So it's a local email client. Basically, what we already have but written in a less efficient language... Right. This is as if Outlook was written in VBA and ran inside Word.
dchuk 9y ago
Weird that the screenshots in the article are clearly in Safari: https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/superhuman-clients.png?w=1358&h=796 https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/superhu...
- phonon 9y ago
  http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneOwnsAMac http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EveryoneOwnsAMac
- dmix 9y ago
  Most PSD templates for screenshots are Macbook screens + Safari. Having designed a number of landing pages for startups I'm really not surprised that the designer they hired for their website chose to use that (without considering the current browser support). As the other commenter pointed out it's a safe bet for marketing purposes and looks best aesthetically. But the confusion here could be a real problem for early adopters.
  - nexpure 9y ago
    Designer here. This is accurate. The long story is, this site was mocked a bit before all the final technical details were scoped out for the project. It's in need of a visual refresh to more accurately represent the platforms we use.

thephyber 9y ago

https://developer.chrome.com/apps/offline_storage#types https://developer.chrome.com/apps/offline_storage#types Apparently it's possible, assuming the device has a sufficiently large storage and, I'm assuming, the user accepts.

ISL 9y ago

All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. Mutt, Pine, Eudora, and Thunderbird, welcome home.

throwawaywonk 9y ago
All that's old is new again!
yeukhon 9y ago
Yeah, except the way I read OP's comment is he thought the whole implementation (server, storage, etc) was all local in the browser. But this is NOT the case (I thought that was the case too initially).

wodenokoto 9y ago

its an off-line email client that is accessed via chrome. think electron app, but without electron, and instead running directly in chrome.

lnx01 9y ago
An electron app, without electron, accessed via chrome in chrome? ... So, a ... Webapp? You mean like, gmail.com or outlook.com?
- m_mueller 9y ago
  Apperently more like a plugin. Pure web technologies don't give you more than a couple 100mb of local storage (at best).
  - reissbaker 9y ago
    I don't know whether Superhuman will be a plugin or not, but there's no reason it would have to be; IndexedDB can provide gigabytes of space, and it's standardized, and current versions of Chrome, FF, and Safari all support it.
    - m_mueller 9y ago
      Depends if you consider IE and Mobile Safari as a required target. They have 250MB and 50MB limits, respectively. But yes, if these can be omitted then IndexedDB API seems fine nowadays. Edit: MS Edge also has 250MB-500MB; they're just always playing catch up, even when their market share has dwindled...
      - egeozcan 9y ago
        Does the spec define the minimum amount of space the browser must allocate?
    - colordrops 9y ago
      Can normal webpages access IMAP and SMTP servers?

jgalt212 9y ago

no dice on an iPhone, 5MB/10MB storage limit for LocalStorage. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1921048/limit-of-localstorage-on-iphone https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1921048/limit-of-localst...

tim333 9y ago
You could turn it into an app to get over that.

reissbaker 9y ago

IndexedDB can store a huge amount of data — your browser will allow up to 50% of the free space on your machine to be used. [1] In most cases that would be gigabytes. IndexedDB doesn't have full browser support yet (Edge is listed as having "partial support" [2]), but Chrome, Firefox, and recent versions of Safari all support it. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/IndexedDB_API/Browser_storage_limits_and_eviction_criteria https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/IndexedDB_A... [2] http://caniuse.com/indexeddb/embed/ http://caniuse.com/indexeddb/embed/

exikyut 9y ago
> IndexedDB can store a huge amount of data ... In most cases that would be gigabytes. You are of course right, but it's always good to surface pathological worst-case scenarios as interesting counterbalances. IndexedDB has really, really REALLY bad performance. It's like a turtle that's been trapped in molasses. I did some benchmarks on my (old) laptop here: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42288596/websql-has-increasing-browser-support-whats-its-future https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42288596/websql-has-incr... For a particularly rare edge case, I periodically have to SIGKILL Chrome so it doesn't crash (due to failed SQLite assertions) when my disk gets full and I have to shuffle things around to make space. In the last instance of this taking place, / had 820KB free. (Context would probably be useful here: I have a 15+-year long diskspace issue created by being given many many old computers with tiny hard drives and not having the infrastructure/knowhow (when I was younger) to move/sync active projects between machines. I just need to get a couple large HDDs so I can collect and dedupe everything, but I can't work due to health issues so that's proving... fun. This is also blocking all kinds of things such as getting my first smartphone, so I have nowhere to back it up onto!)
- voltagex_ 9y ago
  You've got no contact details in your profile but in the very small chance that you're in Australia, I've got a number of spare hard drives I could give you.
  - 9y ago

tim333 9y ago

Apparently with Chrome extensions if you put "permissions": [ "unlimitedStorage" ] in the manifest.json then "The size of unlimited storage is limited only by the availability of space in the user's hard drive." Not quite sure if that's how they do it.

blusterXY 9y ago
I'm dealing with this same issue now actually. The browser can also just wipe the data anytime if it feels it is running out of space.

CyberDildonics 9y ago

With unhinged marketing, anything is possible* *in the near future