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Why, oh why don't reclining seats move the seat forward when they recline? Something like home recliners do. That way people are sacrificing their own leg roo

Why, oh why don't reclining seats move the seat forward when they recline? Something like home recliners do. That way people are sacrificing their own leg room.

losteric 9y ago
Boeing sells planes to airlines, not consumers. Our happiness is irrelevant because no one offers the reclining chairs, and no one wants to be the first-to-market because that's a risky investment given airline company's razor thin margins.
- adventured 9y ago
  US airlines at least no longer have razor thin margins, thanks in part to the railroad-like (the modern US railroad system that is) oligopoly they've managed to acquire. Delta has an 11% net income margin, a reasonable and normal profit level. $8.9 billion in net income on $80.3 billion in sales the last two fiscal years combined. Southwest has a similarly solid profit margin. American Airlines would be similar, were it not for their debt load and some non-recurring hits (as it is, their net income margin is closer to 7% to 8%). Keeping in mind these are net income margins, meaning after taxes. American Airline's operating income margin is closer to 13%. Delta's operating income margin was quite nice given the space, at 17.5%. The comedy is, the same oligopoly that enables them to now be able to afford to significantly improve the customer experience, is what is likely to ensure they have no interest or need to do so. Perhaps there is still enough competition between the majors to drive that, given they're all relatively flush with cash and profits.
  - justinjlynn 9y ago
    Indeed, if they've got an oligopoly then customer comfort is not something they're optimising for. In fact, it never was, in that customer comfort was just a means to attract a larger market share. If that's not a concern market dynamics demand a maximisation of profit including maximisation at the expense of, now irrelevant due to lack of choice, customer comfort.
- lovich 9y ago
  All of these airlines are making billions in profits, that's billions with a b. Even if profit margins we're still thin, which if I recall correctly they no longer are for airlines, can you really argue that consumers have to be continually shafted when you are taking home that much money?
  - losteric 9y ago
    What? Who's arguing in favor of get fucked over? I'm arguing that the lack of competition is shafting consumers because the free market can't express buyer preference when our preference isn't on the market - and that the status quo encourages airlines to not to compete by introducing a new variable.
- baddox 9y ago
  Does Boeing even do the main cabin interiors? I assumed not, given the large variety of styles I've seen on identical plane models.
- coredog64 9y ago
  Boeing sells planes, not seats. Seats are BFE (buyer furnished equipment). You got a problem with the seat? Take it up with the buyer.
  - losteric 9y ago
    It doesn't really matter who makes the seats, my point still stands.
cameldrv 9y ago
Some newer airline seats do.
sitepodmatt 9y ago
Cathay Pacific did this years ago with economy clamshell seats, i.e slide forward, but apparently aggregate consumer feedback was bad and they were all withdrawn. Shame.
- spollo 9y ago
  That some kind of misplaced racism here. Not sure how you think these Chinese stereotypes would have affected people's enjoyment of sliding seats? More likely the sliding seats just weren't very good.
  - abraae 9y ago
    Curious. I've read your comment several times and I can't work out where you're seeing racism. Is it the word clamshell? That just means something that opens and shuts in my circles.
    - spollo 9y ago
      I'm not sure if there was a ninja edit or I accidentally replied to the wrong comment but I was responding to someone who was blaming "The type of passengers out of Hong Kong airport (ie Mainlanders)" on the seats not being adopted. It was definitely racist but yeah I look bad now lol.
- nlawalker 9y ago
  The people that recline their seats complained louder than the people who quietly suffer when seats are reclined onto them celebrated; big surprise there.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  I was on a Cathay Pacific flight to China in 2009 where the seats slid forward but the back didn't lean back much at all. It was awful. The flight and everything around it was otherwise one of the best flight experiences I've had. But not being able to recline your seat for 12+ hours lead to very little sleep and back pain for pretty much everyone in my travel group. In fact I think of the four people I traveled with I was the only one who got any sleep at all.

Why, oh why don't reclining seats move the seat forward when they recline? Something like home recliners do. That way people are sacrificing their own leg room.

losteric 9y ago

Boeing sells planes to airlines, not consumers. Our happiness is irrelevant because no one offers the reclining chairs, and no one wants to be the first-to-market because that's a risky investment given airline company's razor thin margins.

adventured 9y ago
US airlines at least no longer have razor thin margins, thanks in part to the railroad-like (the modern US railroad system that is) oligopoly they've managed to acquire. Delta has an 11% net income margin, a reasonable and normal profit level. $8.9 billion in net income on $80.3 billion in sales the last two fiscal years combined. Southwest has a similarly solid profit margin. American Airlines would be similar, were it not for their debt load and some non-recurring hits (as it is, their net income margin is closer to 7% to 8%). Keeping in mind these are net income margins, meaning after taxes. American Airline's operating income margin is closer to 13%. Delta's operating income margin was quite nice given the space, at 17.5%. The comedy is, the same oligopoly that enables them to now be able to afford to significantly improve the customer experience, is what is likely to ensure they have no interest or need to do so. Perhaps there is still enough competition between the majors to drive that, given they're all relatively flush with cash and profits.
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  Indeed, if they've got an oligopoly then customer comfort is not something they're optimising for. In fact, it never was, in that customer comfort was just a means to attract a larger market share. If that's not a concern market dynamics demand a maximisation of profit including maximisation at the expense of, now irrelevant due to lack of choice, customer comfort.
lovich 9y ago
All of these airlines are making billions in profits, that's billions with a b. Even if profit margins we're still thin, which if I recall correctly they no longer are for airlines, can you really argue that consumers have to be continually shafted when you are taking home that much money?
- losteric 9y ago
  What? Who's arguing in favor of get fucked over? I'm arguing that the lack of competition is shafting consumers because the free market can't express buyer preference when our preference isn't on the market - and that the status quo encourages airlines to not to compete by introducing a new variable.
baddox 9y ago
Does Boeing even do the main cabin interiors? I assumed not, given the large variety of styles I've seen on identical plane models.
coredog64 9y ago
Boeing sells planes, not seats. Seats are BFE (buyer furnished equipment). You got a problem with the seat? Take it up with the buyer.
- losteric 9y ago
  It doesn't really matter who makes the seats, my point still stands.

cameldrv 9y ago

Some newer airline seats do.

sitepodmatt 9y ago

Cathay Pacific did this years ago with economy clamshell seats, i.e slide forward, but apparently aggregate consumer feedback was bad and they were all withdrawn. Shame.

spollo 9y ago
That some kind of misplaced racism here. Not sure how you think these Chinese stereotypes would have affected people's enjoyment of sliding seats? More likely the sliding seats just weren't very good.
- abraae 9y ago
  Curious. I've read your comment several times and I can't work out where you're seeing racism. Is it the word clamshell? That just means something that opens and shuts in my circles.
  - spollo 9y ago
    I'm not sure if there was a ninja edit or I accidentally replied to the wrong comment but I was responding to someone who was blaming "The type of passengers out of Hong Kong airport (ie Mainlanders)" on the seats not being adopted. It was definitely racist but yeah I look bad now lol.
nlawalker 9y ago
The people that recline their seats complained louder than the people who quietly suffer when seats are reclined onto them celebrated; big surprise there.
ajmurmann 9y ago
I was on a Cathay Pacific flight to China in 2009 where the seats slid forward but the back didn't lean back much at all. It was awful. The flight and everything around it was otherwise one of the best flight experiences I've had. But not being able to recline your seat for 12+ hours lead to very little sleep and back pain for pretty much everyone in my travel group. In fact I think of the four people I traveled with I was the only one who got any sleep at all.