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I just wish that, if they're gonna shrink the seats, they would prevent them from reclining. That, I think is a big part of the reason why the smaller sizes are
by shortformblog 9y ago
I just wish that, if they're gonna shrink the seats, they would prevent them from reclining. That, I think is a big part of the reason why the smaller sizes are so terrible.
A few months back, I had a pretty terrible experience on a flight when the woman directly in front of me, who was maybe 5'2 and 120 pounds, decided to recline her seat all the way back. It made what was already a cramped flight for me (I'm definitely not 5'2 nor 120 pounds) pure torture. I did all I could to try to convince her to push it up, but she wouldn't.
The flight attendant—this was Delta, by the way, so screw them-sided with the person in front, saying it was "their right" to recline their seat in a way that makes people uncomfortable.
This was on top of a bad flight situation where I was dropped off to a different city than my luggage because my connecting flight was delayed.
The flight attendant tried to appease me with beer. She would have better appeased me had she ignored her airline's policy in what clearly was an unfair situation.
That's the problem with flying these days. They constantly force passengers to choose between one undesirable choice and another, and nobody is happy as a result.
- lutorm 9y agoI completely disagree. I have a neck problem and not being able to recline the seat will completely kill me for any flight longer than an hour. Also, how exactly does the seat in front reclining affect your comfort? Not being able to recline my own seat affects my comfort far, far more than the seat in front of me being reclined.
- shortformblog 9y agoI didn't have enough space to even hold my phone in front of my face to read it because she had reclined back so far. You have to remember that there are a lot of people on the plane of different shapes and sizes, so what might not bother you might be a huge problem for someone else.
- cratermoon 9y agoThat's the hill you want to die on? Inability to look at your gadget?
- shortformblog 9y agoI'm sorry if I dare used a practical example of the bad situation I was in, rather than describing it in inches.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- lutorm 9y agowhat might not bother you might be a huge problem for someone else Exactly, that's what I'm saying. It goes both ways. Was your seat reclined?
- shortformblog 9y agoNo, because I was trying to be thoughtful to the person behind me.
- lclarkmichalek 9y agoThink this might be part of the issue...
- shortformblog 9y agoJust because I show a level of consideration to the person behind of me that I'm not personally afforded doesn't mean that this is part of the issue. The issue is a design problem created by the airline, and I'd rather be courteous to the person behind me if possible.
- vogt 9y agoIf you are a tall person, the reclined seat jams into your knees. Talk to me about your lack of reclining being worse when you literally can't move your knees for 4 hours because there's a hard piece of plastic jammed into your kneecaps. I'm 6'2'' which is tall but not unreasonably tall.
- jimktrains2 9y agoOr if you have a laptop on the tray or your knees. It gets jammed and could break.
- Bahamut 9y agoSomeone doesn’t even have to be taller than average to feel the pain during flights. I’ve had multiple incidents where passengers inconsiderately reclined their seats without looking & asking, one time putting dangerous pressure on my laptop screen, and multiple times trapping my knees/preventing me from unlocking my knees...and I’m only 5’ 9”. One time the woman in front of me did it just so she could get more comfortable for using her laptop! There is almost no excuse for not asking before reclining unless it is a very long flight (i.e. 10+ hours) or if the person is that shitty. Sometimes I wish people with that little regard for others would be barred from the privilege of flying :( .
- city41 9y agoI've never asked before reclining nor have I ever seen anyone else ask, ever. As for laptops, I've completely given up on them on planes. It's just not feasible anymore.
- auggierose 9y agoPeople reclining the seat in front of me in economy makes the flight basically unbearable for me. That's why I will never fly economy again for flights > 2 hours. From your comment I guess you are not very tall.
- koolba 9y agoBook the exit row. The seat in front of it can't recline to ensure the pathway is open. Bonus tip: if there are two exit rows back to back, pick the one in the back. It will be able to recline but can't be reclined in front of.
- irq11 9y agoYeah, that was great until the airlines made those $150+ "upgrade" seats. It's not as if tickets have been getting cheaper, to compensate, either. It's gotten to the point that I simply refuse to fly domestic unless I am forced.
- auggierose 9y agoI am doing that whenever I can for the < 2 hour flights, but for longer flights economy is just too much of a pain anyway.
- lathiat 9y agothis is largely going to be bad seat design, I suggest that you try and put your dollars with a different airline or choose flights on an aircraft with a better setup.
- shortformblog 9y agoI agree with you on this fact. My last flight swapped carriers and one had significantly better seats than the other. (This also happened on a regional jet, which I think exacerbated the problem.) But I think part of it is also location. Some airports are only served by one or two airlines, effectively limiting choice. So the result is that if I wanna get home, I'm stuck riding with the bad airline. I generally prefer the train when the distance is reasonable enough.
- wutbrodo 9y agoYea, I've never really understood reclining seats, especially on domestic flights. I've certainly never used mine, excluding 18 hr flights or something like that during the times when pretty much everyone is catching some shuteye (it doesn't really matter if the person in front of you is reclined if you are too).
- danielharrison 9y agoAircraft are not assigned to the same routes at the same times every day. They're chopped and changed all the time. It's impossible to have different configurations for different aircraft.
- 4ad 9y agoSmall planes are not used on long routes though, and similarly, large planes are seldom used for short routes. So they could disable recling seats on short flights with no problem.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- logfromblammo 9y agoI have low orexin (but fortunately not full-blown narcolepsy, like my sibling). It basically means that I fall asleep in any airline cabin the instant the safety briefing ends, and wake up when the wheels touch pavement. If I don't recline, and wedge my head in place somehow, I always wake up with severe neck pain, because my head lolls into uncomfortable positions. Airline flying is simply too boring for my brain to be able to stay awake for it.
- dawnerd 9y agoFew months back I was in coach working away on my laptop and the person in front decided to jam their seat all the way back. I barely managed to move my laptop before the screen got caught in the table lip thingy. Personally, I'd be fine with less leg space (despite being 6') if it meant wider seats. I really don't enjoy being shoulder to shoulder or being smacked whenever they roll the cart by.
- vacri 9y agoI'm 6'6" with broad shoulders. I can't take the window seat because of the curve of the plan. I usually have to take an aisle seat where I can (and also pay the extra for the legroom). The problem with the aisle seat, on long-haul flights at least, is that my shoulder sticks out a little, and every. single. fucker. walking by strikes it. I can walk down the aisle without hitting anything, but apparently no-one else in the known universe can. Tall, short, fat, thin, all of them. It's like people just slalom off the sides of chairs for fun. It's not like I'm taking up a third of the aisle with my shoulder, it's only a couple of inches, but my opinion of the general public is notably worse after a long-haul flight.
- dawnerd 9y agoWorse is when boarding and you're in the front row of econ and people will their bags and wheeled luggage smack into your face and knees. Just the other day I was hit in the face pretty good by some guys backpack. Confident people just don't care about anyone else on a flight. That's not even counting the people that can't wait to remove their carry-ons from above and they're way too heavy and fall down.
- caseysoftware 9y agoThat's the scenario that scares me on flights. I've rescued my laptop in the nick of time a couple of times. I was pretty sure it was going to break one time. The worst part is would they pay for it? The airline obviously wouldn't. Would the passenger? If they refused would the airline give me their info to file a claim? I assume not. So I'd be stuck buying a new computer - and probably without a computer for part of the trip - while I did nothing wrong.
- koolba 9y agoWhy is it unfair for the person in front of you to recline her seat? She paid for that seat just like you. Now I'm not saying she shouldn't have brought it back up when you asked. I know I would have. But there's no fairness doctrine here. It'd be unfair if you are the sole arbiter of who gets to recline their seat.
- jimktrains2 9y agoThen it's not unfair to bump them seat when using the restroom. I paid for a certain amount of space, which includes the ability to get up from the seat.
- danielharrison 9y agoYou didn't pay for any space. You paid for the use of a seat for that particular flight.
- jimktrains2 9y agoI'm not sure how you're arguing I don't have the ability to use the restroom. If I did pay for the ability to use the restroom, then I can bump someone prevent me from exiting my seat if they won't free me from restraints. Also, you do not have a right to recline, if there is a baby carrier behind you, you will be unable to.
- droidist2 9y agoThere's no way I can get up from the seat without the person/people between me and the aisle getting up. Is this what you mean? Also I agree you should get up periodically, it's not healthy to stay in those terrible cramped seats for so long.
- jimktrains2 9y agoI've never had someone sitting next to me, who wasn't asleep, not move for me to exit. I have had people with their seat back not take it up when asked Yes, my argument breaks down pretty quickly, good point.
- derekp7 9y agoWhy, oh why don't reclining seats move the seat forward when they recline? Something like home recliners do. That way people are sacrificing their own leg room.
- losteric 9y agoBoeing sells planes to airlines, not consumers. Our happiness is irrelevant because no one offers the reclining chairs, and no one wants to be the first-to-market because that's a risky investment given airline company's razor thin margins.
- adventured 9y agoUS airlines at least no longer have razor thin margins, thanks in part to the railroad-like (the modern US railroad system that is) oligopoly they've managed to acquire. Delta has an 11% net income margin, a reasonable and normal profit level. $8.9 billion in net income on $80.3 billion in sales the last two fiscal years combined. Southwest has a similarly solid profit margin. American Airlines would be similar, were it not for their debt load and some non-recurring hits (as it is, their net income margin is closer to 7% to 8%). Keeping in mind these are net income margins, meaning after taxes. American Airline's operating income margin is closer to 13%. Delta's operating income margin was quite nice given the space, at 17.5%. The comedy is, the same oligopoly that enables them to now be able to afford to significantly improve the customer experience, is what is likely to ensure they have no interest or need to do so. Perhaps there is still enough competition between the majors to drive that, given they're all relatively flush with cash and profits.
- justinjlynn 9y agoIndeed, if they've got an oligopoly then customer comfort is not something they're optimising for. In fact, it never was, in that customer comfort was just a means to attract a larger market share. If that's not a concern market dynamics demand a maximisation of profit including maximisation at the expense of, now irrelevant due to lack of choice, customer comfort.
- 9y ago
- arwhatever 9y agoIf they recline their seat, bump the back of it. If the person behind you bumps you continually, recline your seat.
- Godel_unicode 9y agoPassive aggressiveness as a considered plan seems like a bad idea. Maybe just ask the person not to?
- wdb 9y agoNothing more annoying then someone reclining it seat even during eating time, ignoring mine and steward's requests on a flight from Shanghai to Auckland. I ended up eating in one of the steward seat's accompanied by one of the stewards.
- jk2323 9y agoLook mate, I am sorry to break the news for you but the woman in front of you was totally within her rights to push her seat down. This is not something that is granted from the back passenger in a plane. BTW, there are seats with more space near the emergency exits that can be bought for a small fee. If you are big you may want to consider that. Actually reminds me of a crazy bitch that insisted that I don't push my seat down, while at he same time had her seat pushed down (guess it is called "maximizing space"). But this was nothing that could not get fixed with a short yelling at her.
- hkmurakami 9y agoThis is why I'm always happy to pay extra for United seat 21D.
- droidist2 9y agoSounds interesting. On which model aircraft is this a prime seat?
- hkmurakami 9y agoI forget the exact models (I always check seatguru), but some if not most of the 737s. It's the rear most exit row aisle seat (I've developed some kind of flight anxiety/claustrophobia and medically need the sightline space of the aisle) which can recline, but the ones in front cannot.
- enraged_camel 9y agoYou can also pay another extra fee if you want a free beating. That one is not listed on the menu though.
- sk5t 9y agoIf reclining the seat will crush the knees of the person behind you, the seat shall remain in its upright position. The mechanical ability to do a thing is not a justification.
- smm2000 9y agoThere are two things that I use to make economy flight bearable - Stand for 30 min, then sit for 30 min or so. You will be surprised by how much better you feel by the end of the flight. I just grab Kindle and read it standing in the isle on domestic or walk to the back of the plane on widebody international flights (usually there is space there). - Use inflatable pillow like this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WVR48SW https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06WVR48SW. You will get much better sleep with it
- hkmurakami 9y agoAre you "allowed" to stand in the back? Iirc you're no longer permitted to loiter around the galley area. Though flight attendants probably don't give a
- fma 9y agoYou can't stand in the front, due to security concerns with being near the cockpit. Back is fair game. More common on international flights, though. Plus international flights they have snacks in the back, so you can stand there and munch.
- hkmurakami 9y agoGreat to know (knew about the snacks but was never sure if I was allowed to loiter). Thank you!
- Smaug123 9y agoRemember, if you loiter politely while in flight, the worst anyone official will do to you is ask you to go back to your seat :) very little downside to trying even if it's "not allowed".
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- fma 9y agoYou can fly spirit. No reclining seats.
- tyingq 9y agoSpirit is able to have the seats closer together than any other airline because of this. Their seat pitch is 28 inches, as compared to 30 or 31 for most others.
- iamabraham 9y agoThere is a place in hell for people that recline in coach. The 2" of reclining doesn't help anyone's comfort that much. It's the difference between being "mostly miserable" and "pretty miserable", like the difference between lowering the air temperature in a hotel room from 79 to 78 on a summer night. I never recline (6'1) if I have to fly coach. It's disruptive to the person behind me, either their legs or if they are trying to work on a computer. Saying "it's their right!" is just a proxy for doing the reasonable and personable thing.
- notyourwork 9y agoPiss off seriously.
- goatherders 9y agoWhy? Because I think people should be considerate of each other in situations that are less than ideal? Thanks for your useful comment.
- notyourwork 9y agoHow can you feel entitled to tell another passenger what they can and cannot do with their seat? I don't like coach class anymore than the next person but I prefer my seat reclined so I can sleep. Sorry if that encroaches on your space but take it up with the airline not the passenger using their seat as provisioned.
- dang 9y agoPersonal attacks will get your account banned on HN, so please don't do this again.
- notyourwork 9y agoI'm not sure how this is a personal attack, I am dismissing his comment where he suggests "There is a place in hell for people that recline in coach." Sorry if it was interpreted incorrectly but the comment I replied to deserves dismissal.
- shaklee3 9y agoBuy these: https://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender.html https://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender.html
- seszett 9y agoI wonder why this seat reclining problem has not been solved yet. It doesn't seem that complicated, actually at least French trains have solved this by making reclining seats slide down their frame (and forward) instead of actually recline backwards into the rear passenger's space. It works really well, and the result is that reclining uses the reclining person's space and cannot bother anyone else. However, these trains have more leg space and sturdier seats than regular planes, so maybe it's more difficult to achieve on a plane?
- maddyboo 9y agoI'd imagine such a mechanism would be a decent bit heavier than standard airline recliners (as mentioned in the article, "Today, an economy seat that tips the scales above 9 kilograms (20 pounds) is, by an airline’s measure, too heavy to fly") Also, if the seats slide downwards, does that impinge on the small luggage space underneath the seat for the person behind?
- seszett 9y agoThe seats don't just slide downwards, the seating part slides forward on the frame that is fixed, so in effect the top of the seat gets lower, the angle of the back increases, and the forward edge moves forward. The space under the seat isn't affected. But yeah, the seats are probably bulkier.
- RationPhantoms 9y agoI am always pleasantly surprised when people in front don't push back their seats. I make sure I don't to the person behind me but it's a domino effect if the person in front does. It's this weird phenomenon.