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> while thousands of users shared it, only Jutaphat was found to violate Thailand’s strict lese majeste laws against insulting, defaming, or threatening the mon

> while thousands of users shared it, only Jutaphat was found to violate Thailand’s strict lese majeste laws against insulting, defaming, or threatening the monarchy What can we practically do to help with situations like this far from our normal realm of influence? Countries like NK get sanctions (rightfully), but we don't seem to do anything as a country against things like this.

megous 9y ago
Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country.
- elcapitan 9y ago
  I think it's called "hate crimes" nowadays.
  - megous 9y ago
    I guess that's the framing you choose if you want to lock people up.
- codydh 9y ago
  If I'm following your implication, I think this is less of a slippery slope than you think. When one's ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    >ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society Please explain why you think a comment that basically said we shouldn't persecute people for crimes of thought/opinion/speech makes that implication.
    - ant6n 9y ago
      "Thought crimes" is right-wing-speak denouncing what used to be called political correctness or ... not being racist, sexist or a bigot.
      - Corristowolf 9y ago
        lmao & smh
      - megous 9y ago
        "Thought crime" comes from Orwell for me. Except his meaning was probably a bit different than I thought. Anyway I define it as criminalizing certain expression of ideas in a violent attempt to control what population thinks. Also you're reacting to Thailand story, so I'm not sure what American right has to do with this.
        ant6n 9y ago
        I'm merely trying to give a possible explanation for codydh's reaction. Searching "thought crimes" for example on Google news also shows how the meaning appears to have changed. Also this discussion started with somebody asking what they can do to help, given that Thailand is far from our sphere of influence. In your response of "Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country", the "within the country" could be easily interpreted as whatever country the people discussing are in, which will likely be some Western democracy. So I believe your statement can easily be interpreted as trying to make a connection between free speech issues in the Thailand and the 'fight to free speech' of the alt-right in Western Democracies, asking for tolerance of their intolerant opinions (this is not just a US phenomenon btw). Note also how the example of Chinese tourists getting arrested in Germany for making the nazi salute is used as a suppossed freedom of speech issue in this thread. A news article about that was actually one of the first results in the google search for "thought crimes" [1]. [1] http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thought-crimes-to-be-a-thing/ http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thou...
        9y ago
  - throwawaywonk 9y ago
    Yeah, union organizers and war protesters in the early 1900s were jailed with similar excuses. Would you like to go to jail in 20 years for speaking out against the war in Iraq? Because when you start limiting speech, it's /usually/ not the right wing that suffers...
MikkoFinell 9y ago
"Like and share this if you think he should be free!"
johnmagnus 9y ago
I'd start by supporting Amnesty International. An organization I've always trusted to put the spotlight on human rights issues and always manages to put pressure governments around the world to do better. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-jailed-sharing-bbc-news-article-facebook https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-...
- throw2016 9y ago
  On the contrary orgs like Amnesty are so focused on putting the spotlight on other countries that they miss the stuff happening right under their noses both in the UK and here. We need a new generation of activists who are less self serving and more aware of the risks posed by totalitarian tendencies with a more realistic perception of how the world works. At the moment media, academics and NGOs are quick to turn the spotlight outward and barely register or handwave issues around Snowden, surveillance, whistle blowers, the NSA, GCHQ, privacy, border checks and harassment and the 'endless' wars.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    Amnesty hasn't ignored issues around Snowden. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden
pandemi 9y ago
Practically nothing. Things that feel wrong will happen no matter what you do in all countries. The best option is just to live with the fact.
petepete 9y ago
If enough light can be shed on this matter for it to make the regular news and be seen by the masses, it might begin to have an impact on tourism, something Thailand would definitely notice.
- gambiting 9y ago
  Pretty much everyone knows that Turkey is a full blown dictatorship and yet I still have friends who go there on holiday. There's no connection in their mind between spending money on holidays in Turkey and helping Erdogan in the long term.
- geomark 9y ago
  It's been more than 3 years since the military staged a coup and has been ruthlessly suppressing dissent using the lese majesty laws and other laws they enacted that make it illegal to protest against the government. Tourist arrivals just keep increasing to record levels[1]. Tourists don't care, at least not enough to choose a different destination. [1]https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals
  - dageshi 9y ago
    Thailand has a coup followed by democratic government followed by coup every 5-10 years for about the past 50 years, what's happening now is no different to what's happened before. You're right, tourists don't care because by and large the Thai people don't care, this is nothing out of the ordinary for them.
  - notahacker 9y ago
    The counter argument would be neighbouring Myanmar, which is remarkably underdeveloped for tourists by comparison despite comparable tourist potential (and oil money to invest in infrastructure) because its authoritarian government has historically been boycotted, whereas Thailand's series of mostly authoritarian governments interspersed with elections and coups have usually played the international relations game just well enough to avoid becoming a pariah state. But it's quite difficult to find a tropical paradise destination with progressive liberal democratic government
davidreiss 9y ago
Germany arrested chinese tourists for making nazi salute. Should we do something about germany too? Do chinese and germans deserve free speech too or just thais? Edit: @0xfeba > That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Only if you are pro-censorship and have no appreciation for principles. > Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Are you saying it's good or bad? > Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. But that's the law. > How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years? How about we worry about both? How about we worry about free speech and principles. Talk about shallowness. The german law allows for imprisonment for 3 years for nazi salutes. If the chinese got 3 years and the thai got 3 years, would you think both are equally wrong? You don't seem to have an argument so you are just nitpicking. I don't remember you being outraged that the chinese tourists were arrested. I remember you celebrating german law.
- 0xfeba 9y ago
  That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years?

megous 9y ago

Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country.

elcapitan 9y ago
I think it's called "hate crimes" nowadays.
- megous 9y ago
  I guess that's the framing you choose if you want to lock people up.
codydh 9y ago
If I'm following your implication, I think this is less of a slippery slope than you think. When one's ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society.
- dsfyu404ed 9y ago
  >ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society Please explain why you think a comment that basically said we shouldn't persecute people for crimes of thought/opinion/speech makes that implication.
  - ant6n 9y ago
    "Thought crimes" is right-wing-speak denouncing what used to be called political correctness or ... not being racist, sexist or a bigot.
    - Corristowolf 9y ago
      lmao & smh
    - megous 9y ago
      "Thought crime" comes from Orwell for me. Except his meaning was probably a bit different than I thought. Anyway I define it as criminalizing certain expression of ideas in a violent attempt to control what population thinks. Also you're reacting to Thailand story, so I'm not sure what American right has to do with this.
      - ant6n 9y ago
        I'm merely trying to give a possible explanation for codydh's reaction. Searching "thought crimes" for example on Google news also shows how the meaning appears to have changed. Also this discussion started with somebody asking what they can do to help, given that Thailand is far from our sphere of influence. In your response of "Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country", the "within the country" could be easily interpreted as whatever country the people discussing are in, which will likely be some Western democracy. So I believe your statement can easily be interpreted as trying to make a connection between free speech issues in the Thailand and the 'fight to free speech' of the alt-right in Western Democracies, asking for tolerance of their intolerant opinions (this is not just a US phenomenon btw). Note also how the example of Chinese tourists getting arrested in Germany for making the nazi salute is used as a suppossed freedom of speech issue in this thread. A news article about that was actually one of the first results in the google search for "thought crimes" [1]. [1] http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thought-crimes-to-be-a-thing/ http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thou...
        9y ago
- throwawaywonk 9y ago
  Yeah, union organizers and war protesters in the early 1900s were jailed with similar excuses. Would you like to go to jail in 20 years for speaking out against the war in Iraq? Because when you start limiting speech, it's /usually/ not the right wing that suffers...

MikkoFinell 9y ago

"Like and share this if you think he should be free!"

johnmagnus 9y ago

I'd start by supporting Amnesty International. An organization I've always trusted to put the spotlight on human rights issues and always manages to put pressure governments around the world to do better. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-jailed-sharing-bbc-news-article-facebook https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-...

throw2016 9y ago
On the contrary orgs like Amnesty are so focused on putting the spotlight on other countries that they miss the stuff happening right under their noses both in the UK and here. We need a new generation of activists who are less self serving and more aware of the risks posed by totalitarian tendencies with a more realistic perception of how the world works. At the moment media, academics and NGOs are quick to turn the spotlight outward and barely register or handwave issues around Snowden, surveillance, whistle blowers, the NSA, GCHQ, privacy, border checks and harassment and the 'endless' wars.
- leereeves 9y ago
  Amnesty hasn't ignored issues around Snowden. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden

pandemi 9y ago

Practically nothing. Things that feel wrong will happen no matter what you do in all countries. The best option is just to live with the fact.

petepete 9y ago

If enough light can be shed on this matter for it to make the regular news and be seen by the masses, it might begin to have an impact on tourism, something Thailand would definitely notice.

gambiting 9y ago
Pretty much everyone knows that Turkey is a full blown dictatorship and yet I still have friends who go there on holiday. There's no connection in their mind between spending money on holidays in Turkey and helping Erdogan in the long term.
geomark 9y ago
It's been more than 3 years since the military staged a coup and has been ruthlessly suppressing dissent using the lese majesty laws and other laws they enacted that make it illegal to protest against the government. Tourist arrivals just keep increasing to record levels[1]. Tourists don't care, at least not enough to choose a different destination. [1]https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals
- dageshi 9y ago
  Thailand has a coup followed by democratic government followed by coup every 5-10 years for about the past 50 years, what's happening now is no different to what's happened before. You're right, tourists don't care because by and large the Thai people don't care, this is nothing out of the ordinary for them.
- notahacker 9y ago
  The counter argument would be neighbouring Myanmar, which is remarkably underdeveloped for tourists by comparison despite comparable tourist potential (and oil money to invest in infrastructure) because its authoritarian government has historically been boycotted, whereas Thailand's series of mostly authoritarian governments interspersed with elections and coups have usually played the international relations game just well enough to avoid becoming a pariah state. But it's quite difficult to find a tropical paradise destination with progressive liberal democratic government

davidreiss 9y ago

Germany arrested chinese tourists for making nazi salute. Should we do something about germany too? Do chinese and germans deserve free speech too or just thais? Edit: @0xfeba > That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Only if you are pro-censorship and have no appreciation for principles. > Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Are you saying it's good or bad? > Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. But that's the law. > How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years? How about we worry about both? How about we worry about free speech and principles. Talk about shallowness. The german law allows for imprisonment for 3 years for nazi salutes. If the chinese got 3 years and the thai got 3 years, would you think both are equally wrong? You don't seem to have an argument so you are just nitpicking. I don't remember you being outraged that the chinese tourists were arrested. I remember you celebrating german law.

0xfeba 9y ago
That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years?