11 ms·

Thai activist jailed under lese majeste laws for sharing an article on Facebook

112 points by DiabloD3 9y ago

have_faith 9y ago
> while thousands of users shared it, only Jutaphat was found to violate Thailand’s strict lese majeste laws against insulting, defaming, or threatening the monarchy What can we practically do to help with situations like this far from our normal realm of influence? Countries like NK get sanctions (rightfully), but we don't seem to do anything as a country against things like this.
- megous 9y ago
  Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country.
  - elcapitan 9y ago
    I think it's called "hate crimes" nowadays.
    - megous 9y ago
      I guess that's the framing you choose if you want to lock people up.
  - codydh 9y ago
    If I'm following your implication, I think this is less of a slippery slope than you think. When one's ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society.
    - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
      >ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society Please explain why you think a comment that basically said we shouldn't persecute people for crimes of thought/opinion/speech makes that implication.
      - ant6n 9y ago
        "Thought crimes" is right-wing-speak denouncing what used to be called political correctness or ... not being racist, sexist or a bigot.
        Corristowolf 9y ago
        lmao & smh
        megous 9y ago
        "Thought crime" comes from Orwell for me. Except his meaning was probably a bit different than I thought. Anyway I define it as criminalizing certain expression of ideas in a violent attempt to control what population thinks. Also you're reacting to Thailand story, so I'm not sure what American right has to do with this.
        ant6n 9y ago
        I'm merely trying to give a possible explanation for codydh's reaction. Searching "thought crimes" for example on Google news also shows how the meaning appears to have changed. Also this discussion started with somebody asking what they can do to help, given that Thailand is far from our sphere of influence. In your response of "Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country", the "within the country" could be easily interpreted as whatever country the people discussing are in, which will likely be some Western democracy. So I believe your statement can easily be interpreted as trying to make a connection between free speech issues in the Thailand and the 'fight to free speech' of the alt-right in Western Democracies, asking for tolerance of their intolerant opinions (this is not just a US phenomenon btw). Note also how the example of Chinese tourists getting arrested in Germany for making the nazi salute is used as a suppossed freedom of speech issue in this thread. A news article about that was actually one of the first results in the google search for "thought crimes" [1]. [1] http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thought-crimes-to-be-a-thing/ http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thou...
        9y ago
    - throwawaywonk 9y ago
      Yeah, union organizers and war protesters in the early 1900s were jailed with similar excuses. Would you like to go to jail in 20 years for speaking out against the war in Iraq? Because when you start limiting speech, it's /usually/ not the right wing that suffers...
- MikkoFinell 9y ago
  "Like and share this if you think he should be free!"
- johnmagnus 9y ago
  I'd start by supporting Amnesty International. An organization I've always trusted to put the spotlight on human rights issues and always manages to put pressure governments around the world to do better. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-jailed-sharing-bbc-news-article-facebook https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-...
  - throw2016 9y ago
    On the contrary orgs like Amnesty are so focused on putting the spotlight on other countries that they miss the stuff happening right under their noses both in the UK and here. We need a new generation of activists who are less self serving and more aware of the risks posed by totalitarian tendencies with a more realistic perception of how the world works. At the moment media, academics and NGOs are quick to turn the spotlight outward and barely register or handwave issues around Snowden, surveillance, whistle blowers, the NSA, GCHQ, privacy, border checks and harassment and the 'endless' wars.
    - leereeves 9y ago
      Amnesty hasn't ignored issues around Snowden. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden
- pandemi 9y ago
  Practically nothing. Things that feel wrong will happen no matter what you do in all countries. The best option is just to live with the fact.
- petepete 9y ago
  If enough light can be shed on this matter for it to make the regular news and be seen by the masses, it might begin to have an impact on tourism, something Thailand would definitely notice.
  - gambiting 9y ago
    Pretty much everyone knows that Turkey is a full blown dictatorship and yet I still have friends who go there on holiday. There's no connection in their mind between spending money on holidays in Turkey and helping Erdogan in the long term.
  - geomark 9y ago
    It's been more than 3 years since the military staged a coup and has been ruthlessly suppressing dissent using the lese majesty laws and other laws they enacted that make it illegal to protest against the government. Tourist arrivals just keep increasing to record levels[1]. Tourists don't care, at least not enough to choose a different destination. [1]https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals
    - dageshi 9y ago
      Thailand has a coup followed by democratic government followed by coup every 5-10 years for about the past 50 years, what's happening now is no different to what's happened before. You're right, tourists don't care because by and large the Thai people don't care, this is nothing out of the ordinary for them.
    - notahacker 9y ago
      The counter argument would be neighbouring Myanmar, which is remarkably underdeveloped for tourists by comparison despite comparable tourist potential (and oil money to invest in infrastructure) because its authoritarian government has historically been boycotted, whereas Thailand's series of mostly authoritarian governments interspersed with elections and coups have usually played the international relations game just well enough to avoid becoming a pariah state. But it's quite difficult to find a tropical paradise destination with progressive liberal democratic government
- davidreiss 9y ago
  Germany arrested chinese tourists for making nazi salute. Should we do something about germany too? Do chinese and germans deserve free speech too or just thais? Edit: @0xfeba > That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Only if you are pro-censorship and have no appreciation for principles. > Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Are you saying it's good or bad? > Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. But that's the law. > How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years? How about we worry about both? How about we worry about free speech and principles. Talk about shallowness. The german law allows for imprisonment for 3 years for nazi salutes. If the chinese got 3 years and the thai got 3 years, would you think both are equally wrong? You don't seem to have an argument so you are just nitpicking. I don't remember you being outraged that the chinese tourists were arrested. I remember you celebrating german law.
  - 0xfeba 9y ago
    That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years?
viach 9y ago
So he intentially violated the laws of country he lives in, being in the country at the moment of this act. This is not a wise decision, I would say. There will be some kind of consequences and he should be ready for them.
- mikekchar 9y ago
  All people should be aware of the laws in the country where they live. As an immigrant, I'm especially careful not to transgress laws (I don't even have the rights of a citizen!!!). There are times for civil disobedience, but one should not be reckless. You have to weigh the effect that you can have against the cost that you will pay. Courage is a strange thing. Sometimes it requires courage to act. Sometimes it requires courage to stay silent and wait for the right opportunity. It is rarely a straightforward thing, unfortunately. I hope things go as well as possible for him.
  - PhoneRemote 9y ago
    > All people should be aware of the laws in the country where they live. Good luck with that in many developed countries [1][2], or in developing ones [3]. So many things are illegal that it becomes more a question of "do the powers that be wish me imprisoned?" more than anything else. 1: https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2013/03/frequent-reference-question-how-many-federal-laws-are-there/ https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2013/03/frequent-reference-questio... 2: https://www.quora.com/How-many-laws-are-there-in-England-and-Wales https://www.quora.com/How-many-laws-are-there-in-England-and... 3: This article
    - viach 9y ago
      I agree with you, things often look unfair an corrupt in developing countries, from the point of view of citizens of the developed ones. Why would this motivate one to break the law of one of these countries? Shouldn't one be aware of situation and local law?
      - PhoneRemote 9y ago
geomark 9y ago
It's really horrendous what is going on in Thailand with the military dictatorship using the lese majeste laws to suppress any dissent. Many, many people are serving long prison terms for it. Even insulting the king's dog can draw a long sentence[1]. Don't expect the US to even condemn this stuff, much less take any action against the country. Thailand's military is too cooperative in helping the US do dirty business, like hosting the black site[2] at which current CIA Deputy Director Gina Haspel[3] oversaw the torture of terrorism suspects. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/thai-man-faces-jail-insulting-kings-dog-sarcastic-internet-post https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/thai-man-faces... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/cia-deputy-director-gina-haspel-linked-torture-thailand-black-site https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/cia-deputy-d... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Haspel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Haspel
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- briandear 9y ago
  WHat would the US be expected to do? If they try to “help,” they get criticized for being imperialists, if they don’t help, it’s because of a CIA conspiracy. Should the U.S. get involved more with Turkey? How about sanctioning Mexico for journalists being killed? Perhaps they should sanction Germany for arresting someone for exercising free speech (despite it being against German law.) Maybe Pakistan for tolerating revenge rapes order by local councils. There is a lot of nastiness in the world, yet for the U.S. it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Why doesn’t Europe do something about Thailand if we are suggesting that a foreign power should “do” something?
  - DanBC 9y ago
    > Why doesn’t Europe do something We've started doing something: https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/12558/-statement-by-the-hrvp-spokesperson-on-the-constitutional-referendum-in-thailand_en https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/12...
  - 9y ago
sreeni_ananth 9y ago
India had a similar law under the IT Act 66 A, which was struck down by the Supreme Court two years back . http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/sc-judgement-on-section-66a-of-the-information-and-technology-act/article7027977.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/sc-judgement-on-secti... If one feels offended they can file a law suit for defamation under the various existing laws in the court.
Pigo 9y ago
I just realized how little I know about Thailand. It seems I only hear about sex tourism, crazy drug stories, or actors dying mysteriously when it comes to Thailand.
- Angostura 9y ago
  It's a rather fab place (just come back) but it is important to understand that they take their monarchy very very seriously. Walking around Bangkok and a large motorcade drives by? You do stop what you are doing and stand respectfully.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    And stand before the movie starts.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  You should visit. It does have a a lot of tourism, and most places lack the sex tourism thing. It is also an upper middle income country and Bangkok is a pretty cosmopolitan city with lots of really well done interior design. In fact, Thailand produces a lot of UX designers in the tech industry given their design culture. Bangkok is not a bad place for a startup, they have a lot of medical-tech startups that goes along with their strong medical tourist industry.
Cozumel 9y ago
Would FB have a duty to disable the share button on posts like this? If it's a 'bad' post and the user is in Thailand or similar place then either disable the button or pop up a warning saying 'are you sure? this means a lifetime in jail'. I could see it promoting self-censorship but also cases like this would be reduced.
davidreiss 9y ago
This is why I despise censorship and control. Even against people like daily stormers and neo-nazis. Chinese tourists gets arrested for making silly nazi salutes. Everyone celebrates it because that's german law. This guy gets arrested for sharing silly articles. Everyone is upset he got arrested for breaking thai law.
josteink 9y ago
This is where the slippery slope leads us when we create vague terms like "hate"-speech which then criminalize. The US is obviously nowhere Thailand, but just questioning the concept of and (lacking) principles around "hate"-speech is enough for some people to consider you a possible sexist, racist, troll... Or just a general "hater". You know, someone who should be banned because they're obviously up to no good.
- athenot 9y ago
  No. Europe has had hate-speech laws for a while—separate from libel laws which are a totally different story. What makes "hate speech" specific is its broad recognition by an overwhelming portion of the population (including historians), with facts & events to back up its consequences. It's very different from "you said something that hurts my feelings", and it's purposely narrow in its scope.
  - throwawaywonk 9y ago
    Speech on its own has no consequences. I'm on a phone so please do look up Brandenburg v. Ohio and the Brandenburg incitement test. Basically, the opinion of the courts since like 1969 has been that even "hateful" speech is protected because advocating some kind of lawlessness is not the same as actually encouraging or engaging in lawlessness. Do also remember that for most of England and America's history, it wasn't "harmful" speech being punished, it was any speech that the ruling class deemed wrong. In America, this was overwhelmingly left-wig speech. Communists, anarchists, union activists, even pacifists were jailed under such laws as the Espionage Act of 1917. I'm not willing to put enough faith in the vagaries of public opinion to gamble free speech, and neither are American lawyers or historians. Furthermore, who would police such speech? Given how, for example, police in Charlottesville stood back and let the fascists and antifascists beat the stuffing out of each other, can you really imagine the State protecting speech such as "kill all landlords" and "fuck laws" and "smash capitalism" if it were suddenly legal to disallow certain types of political speech?
  - DarkKomunalec 9y ago
    I was unable to find polls directly on 'hate speech', but http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millen... says 49% support limiting offensive speech, and 46% oppose such limits, in the EU - hardly an 'overwhelming' portion.
theBobBob 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9 Was just reading up on Lèse majasté laws and didn't realize that quite a few European countries still have them. Some are for insulting a foreign head of state, like they have in Germany and Poland, and some are still for insulting the royalty. There have actually been several recent prosecutions too.
patrickg_zill 9y ago
I am curious if the law is enforced more strictly now, because the son of the long time king seems to be a drug addled loser, who took the throne in late 2016. http://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-of-thailand-maha-vajiralongkorn-the-playboy http://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-of-thailand-maha-vajiral... Could the lesser amount of respect for the new king, and the increase in enforcement, be linked?
jimmywanger 9y ago
I guess that this is just a risk of going into a foreign country. Unless you want to right wrongs all over the world, you go on vacation to enjoy yourself. You chose to go to the country. If you don't agree with the country's policies, vote with your feet. Don't go. One of the pitfalls of going to a foreign country is that you don't know any of the social mores and what's acceptable and what's not. Whenever I'm travel, I always say please and thank you and am as polite as my limited language allows. Don't try to change laws/customs in foreign countries. In Thailand, you can't step on currency or point the bottom of your feet at an image of a Buddha. That's how they do things, if you want to do that, do it in your own country.

112 points by DiabloD3 9y ago

> while thousands of users shared it, only Jutaphat was found to violate Thailand’s strict lese majeste laws against insulting, defaming, or threatening the monarchy What can we practically do to help with situations like this far from our normal realm of influence? Countries like NK get sanctions (rightfully), but we don't seem to do anything as a country against things like this.

megous 9y ago
Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country.
- elcapitan 9y ago
  I think it's called "hate crimes" nowadays.
  - megous 9y ago
    I guess that's the framing you choose if you want to lock people up.
- codydh 9y ago
  If I'm following your implication, I think this is less of a slippery slope than you think. When one's ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society.
  - dsfyu404ed 9y ago
    >ideology is organized around killing people based on the color of their skin, it deserves no space in modern society Please explain why you think a comment that basically said we shouldn't persecute people for crimes of thought/opinion/speech makes that implication.
    - ant6n 9y ago
      "Thought crimes" is right-wing-speak denouncing what used to be called political correctness or ... not being racist, sexist or a bigot.
      - Corristowolf 9y ago
        lmao & smh
      - megous 9y ago
        "Thought crime" comes from Orwell for me. Except his meaning was probably a bit different than I thought. Anyway I define it as criminalizing certain expression of ideas in a violent attempt to control what population thinks. Also you're reacting to Thailand story, so I'm not sure what American right has to do with this.
        ant6n 9y ago
        I'm merely trying to give a possible explanation for codydh's reaction. Searching "thought crimes" for example on Google news also shows how the meaning appears to have changed. Also this discussion started with somebody asking what they can do to help, given that Thailand is far from our sphere of influence. In your response of "Find and support people who are against persecuting thought crimes within the country", the "within the country" could be easily interpreted as whatever country the people discussing are in, which will likely be some Western democracy. So I believe your statement can easily be interpreted as trying to make a connection between free speech issues in the Thailand and the 'fight to free speech' of the alt-right in Western Democracies, asking for tolerance of their intolerant opinions (this is not just a US phenomenon btw). Note also how the example of Chinese tourists getting arrested in Germany for making the nazi salute is used as a suppossed freedom of speech issue in this thread. A news article about that was actually one of the first results in the google search for "thought crimes" [1]. [1] http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thought-crimes-to-be-a-thing/ http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/chelsea-handler-wants-thou...
        9y ago
  - throwawaywonk 9y ago
    Yeah, union organizers and war protesters in the early 1900s were jailed with similar excuses. Would you like to go to jail in 20 years for speaking out against the war in Iraq? Because when you start limiting speech, it's /usually/ not the right wing that suffers...
MikkoFinell 9y ago
"Like and share this if you think he should be free!"
johnmagnus 9y ago
I'd start by supporting Amnesty International. An organization I've always trusted to put the spotlight on human rights issues and always manages to put pressure governments around the world to do better. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-jailed-sharing-bbc-news-article-facebook https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/thailand-activist-...
- throw2016 9y ago
  On the contrary orgs like Amnesty are so focused on putting the spotlight on other countries that they miss the stuff happening right under their noses both in the UK and here. We need a new generation of activists who are less self serving and more aware of the risks posed by totalitarian tendencies with a more realistic perception of how the world works. At the moment media, academics and NGOs are quick to turn the spotlight outward and barely register or handwave issues around Snowden, surveillance, whistle blowers, the NSA, GCHQ, privacy, border checks and harassment and the 'endless' wars.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    Amnesty hasn't ignored issues around Snowden. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden https://duckduckgo.com/?q=amnesty+international+snowden
pandemi 9y ago
Practically nothing. Things that feel wrong will happen no matter what you do in all countries. The best option is just to live with the fact.
petepete 9y ago
If enough light can be shed on this matter for it to make the regular news and be seen by the masses, it might begin to have an impact on tourism, something Thailand would definitely notice.
- gambiting 9y ago
  Pretty much everyone knows that Turkey is a full blown dictatorship and yet I still have friends who go there on holiday. There's no connection in their mind between spending money on holidays in Turkey and helping Erdogan in the long term.
- geomark 9y ago
  It's been more than 3 years since the military staged a coup and has been ruthlessly suppressing dissent using the lese majesty laws and other laws they enacted that make it illegal to protest against the government. Tourist arrivals just keep increasing to record levels[1]. Tourists don't care, at least not enough to choose a different destination. [1]https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals
  - dageshi 9y ago
    Thailand has a coup followed by democratic government followed by coup every 5-10 years for about the past 50 years, what's happening now is no different to what's happened before. You're right, tourists don't care because by and large the Thai people don't care, this is nothing out of the ordinary for them.
  - notahacker 9y ago
    The counter argument would be neighbouring Myanmar, which is remarkably underdeveloped for tourists by comparison despite comparable tourist potential (and oil money to invest in infrastructure) because its authoritarian government has historically been boycotted, whereas Thailand's series of mostly authoritarian governments interspersed with elections and coups have usually played the international relations game just well enough to avoid becoming a pariah state. But it's quite difficult to find a tropical paradise destination with progressive liberal democratic government
davidreiss 9y ago
Germany arrested chinese tourists for making nazi salute. Should we do something about germany too? Do chinese and germans deserve free speech too or just thais? Edit: @0xfeba > That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Only if you are pro-censorship and have no appreciation for principles. > Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Are you saying it's good or bad? > Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. But that's the law. > How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years? How about we worry about both? How about we worry about free speech and principles. Talk about shallowness. The german law allows for imprisonment for 3 years for nazi salutes. If the chinese got 3 years and the thai got 3 years, would you think both are equally wrong? You don't seem to have an argument so you are just nitpicking. I don't remember you being outraged that the chinese tourists were arrested. I remember you celebrating german law.
- 0xfeba 9y ago
  That argument is convincing only on the shallowest level. Germany arrested, fined, and released those tourists. Thailand has given dissidents lengthy prison sentences. How about we worry about Germany's speech laws after we free people who are stuck in retched prisons for 10 years?

viach 9y ago

So he intentially violated the laws of country he lives in, being in the country at the moment of this act. This is not a wise decision, I would say. There will be some kind of consequences and he should be ready for them.

mikekchar 9y ago
All people should be aware of the laws in the country where they live. As an immigrant, I'm especially careful not to transgress laws (I don't even have the rights of a citizen!!!). There are times for civil disobedience, but one should not be reckless. You have to weigh the effect that you can have against the cost that you will pay. Courage is a strange thing. Sometimes it requires courage to act. Sometimes it requires courage to stay silent and wait for the right opportunity. It is rarely a straightforward thing, unfortunately. I hope things go as well as possible for him.
- PhoneRemote 9y ago
  > All people should be aware of the laws in the country where they live. Good luck with that in many developed countries [1][2], or in developing ones [3]. So many things are illegal that it becomes more a question of "do the powers that be wish me imprisoned?" more than anything else. 1: https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2013/03/frequent-reference-question-how-many-federal-laws-are-there/ https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2013/03/frequent-reference-questio... 2: https://www.quora.com/How-many-laws-are-there-in-England-and-Wales https://www.quora.com/How-many-laws-are-there-in-England-and... 3: This article
  - viach 9y ago
    I agree with you, things often look unfair an corrupt in developing countries, from the point of view of citizens of the developed ones. Why would this motivate one to break the law of one of these countries? Shouldn't one be aware of situation and local law?
    - PhoneRemote 9y ago

geomark 9y ago

It's really horrendous what is going on in Thailand with the military dictatorship using the lese majeste laws to suppress any dissent. Many, many people are serving long prison terms for it. Even insulting the king's dog can draw a long sentence[1]. Don't expect the US to even condemn this stuff, much less take any action against the country. Thailand's military is too cooperative in helping the US do dirty business, like hosting the black site[2] at which current CIA Deputy Director Gina Haspel[3] oversaw the torture of terrorism suspects. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/thai-man-faces-jail-insulting-kings-dog-sarcastic-internet-post https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/thai-man-faces... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/cia-deputy-director-gina-haspel-linked-torture-thailand-black-site https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/03/cia-deputy-d... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Haspel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gina_Haspel

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
briandear 9y ago
WHat would the US be expected to do? If they try to “help,” they get criticized for being imperialists, if they don’t help, it’s because of a CIA conspiracy. Should the U.S. get involved more with Turkey? How about sanctioning Mexico for journalists being killed? Perhaps they should sanction Germany for arresting someone for exercising free speech (despite it being against German law.) Maybe Pakistan for tolerating revenge rapes order by local councils. There is a lot of nastiness in the world, yet for the U.S. it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Why doesn’t Europe do something about Thailand if we are suggesting that a foreign power should “do” something?
- DanBC 9y ago
  > Why doesn’t Europe do something We've started doing something: https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/12558/-statement-by-the-hrvp-spokesperson-on-the-constitutional-referendum-in-thailand_en https://eeas.europa.eu/headquarters/headquarters-homepage/12...
- 9y ago

sreeni_ananth 9y ago

India had a similar law under the IT Act 66 A, which was struck down by the Supreme Court two years back . http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/sc-judgement-on-section-66a-of-the-information-and-technology-act/article7027977.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/resources/sc-judgement-on-secti... If one feels offended they can file a law suit for defamation under the various existing laws in the court.

Pigo 9y ago

I just realized how little I know about Thailand. It seems I only hear about sex tourism, crazy drug stories, or actors dying mysteriously when it comes to Thailand.

Angostura 9y ago
It's a rather fab place (just come back) but it is important to understand that they take their monarchy very very seriously. Walking around Bangkok and a large motorcade drives by? You do stop what you are doing and stand respectfully.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  And stand before the movie starts.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
You should visit. It does have a a lot of tourism, and most places lack the sex tourism thing. It is also an upper middle income country and Bangkok is a pretty cosmopolitan city with lots of really well done interior design. In fact, Thailand produces a lot of UX designers in the tech industry given their design culture. Bangkok is not a bad place for a startup, they have a lot of medical-tech startups that goes along with their strong medical tourist industry.

Cozumel 9y ago

Would FB have a duty to disable the share button on posts like this? If it's a 'bad' post and the user is in Thailand or similar place then either disable the button or pop up a warning saying 'are you sure? this means a lifetime in jail'. I could see it promoting self-censorship but also cases like this would be reduced.

davidreiss 9y ago

This is why I despise censorship and control. Even against people like daily stormers and neo-nazis. Chinese tourists gets arrested for making silly nazi salutes. Everyone celebrates it because that's german law. This guy gets arrested for sharing silly articles. Everyone is upset he got arrested for breaking thai law.

josteink 9y ago

This is where the slippery slope leads us when we create vague terms like "hate"-speech which then criminalize. The US is obviously nowhere Thailand, but just questioning the concept of and (lacking) principles around "hate"-speech is enough for some people to consider you a possible sexist, racist, troll... Or just a general "hater". You know, someone who should be banned because they're obviously up to no good.

athenot 9y ago
No. Europe has had hate-speech laws for a while—separate from libel laws which are a totally different story. What makes "hate speech" specific is its broad recognition by an overwhelming portion of the population (including historians), with facts & events to back up its consequences. It's very different from "you said something that hurts my feelings", and it's purposely narrow in its scope.
- throwawaywonk 9y ago
  Speech on its own has no consequences. I'm on a phone so please do look up Brandenburg v. Ohio and the Brandenburg incitement test. Basically, the opinion of the courts since like 1969 has been that even "hateful" speech is protected because advocating some kind of lawlessness is not the same as actually encouraging or engaging in lawlessness. Do also remember that for most of England and America's history, it wasn't "harmful" speech being punished, it was any speech that the ruling class deemed wrong. In America, this was overwhelmingly left-wig speech. Communists, anarchists, union activists, even pacifists were jailed under such laws as the Espionage Act of 1917. I'm not willing to put enough faith in the vagaries of public opinion to gamble free speech, and neither are American lawyers or historians. Furthermore, who would police such speech? Given how, for example, police in Charlottesville stood back and let the fascists and antifascists beat the stuffing out of each other, can you really imagine the State protecting speech such as "kill all landlords" and "fuck laws" and "smash capitalism" if it were suddenly legal to disallow certain types of political speech?
- DarkKomunalec 9y ago
  I was unable to find polls directly on 'hate speech', but http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millennials-ok-with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-millen... says 49% support limiting offensive speech, and 46% oppose such limits, in the EU - hardly an 'overwhelming' portion.

theBobBob 9y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9 Was just reading up on Lèse majasté laws and didn't realize that quite a few European countries still have them. Some are for insulting a foreign head of state, like they have in Germany and Poland, and some are still for insulting the royalty. There have actually been several recent prosecutions too.

patrickg_zill 9y ago

I am curious if the law is enforced more strictly now, because the son of the long time king seems to be a drug addled loser, who took the throne in late 2016. http://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-of-thailand-maha-vajiralongkorn-the-playboy http://www.thedailybeast.com/prince-of-thailand-maha-vajiral... Could the lesser amount of respect for the new king, and the increase in enforcement, be linked?

jimmywanger 9y ago

I guess that this is just a risk of going into a foreign country. Unless you want to right wrongs all over the world, you go on vacation to enjoy yourself. You chose to go to the country. If you don't agree with the country's policies, vote with your feet. Don't go. One of the pitfalls of going to a foreign country is that you don't know any of the social mores and what's acceptable and what's not. Whenever I'm travel, I always say please and thank you and am as polite as my limited language allows. Don't try to change laws/customs in foreign countries. In Thailand, you can't step on currency or point the bottom of your feet at an image of a Buddha. That's how they do things, if you want to do that, do it in your own country.