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> Historically, the country has been a lightweight in those regards. It’s suffered through a "brain drain," a flight of academics and specialists out of the cou

> Historically, the country has been a lightweight in those regards. It’s suffered through a "brain drain," a flight of academics and specialists out of the country Wouldn't it be crazy if a brain drain from the west to Asia arised?

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
China doesn't even have a real immigration plan in place, you are more likely to win the lottery than get permanent residency even after working there for 10 years. Simply put, they don't really want foreigners like the USA (currently) does.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- agibsonccc 9y ago
  Hi, Just want to give a different perspective here. It's definitely hard (japan was as well till recently) It's possible to get it on the right track. Tech jobs (especially depending on the province) provide incentives for a better path to something like this. I'm directly involved with the fuzhou government deal. My cofounder chris is quoted in the article. We are actually getting incentives and visas for foreign talent to move to southern china. We have a proper incorporation in china and everything setup. Their goal is to build a large scale tech hub. More of the news in mandarin from the launch: http://www.mnw.cn/news/fz/1759144.html http://www.mnw.cn/news/fz/1759144.html http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19717392.htm http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19717392.htm http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951957fec4fc.shtml http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951957fec4fc.shtm... http://www.chinadevelopment.com.cn/news/cy/2017/06/1154087.shtml http://www.chinadevelopment.com.cn/news/cy/2017/06/1154087.s... http://www.fjcl.gov.cn/xzdt/1709724.jhtml http://www.fjcl.gov.cn/xzdt/1709724.jhtml http://health.gmw.cn/2017-06/26/content_24892813.htm http://health.gmw.cn/2017-06/26/content_24892813.htm http://fj.people.com.cn/GB/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.html http://fj.people.com.cn/GB/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.htm... http://fj.people.com.cn/BIG5/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.html http://fj.people.com.cn/BIG5/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.h... http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951ab08e5189.shtml http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951ab08e5189.shtm... http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19716514.htm http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19716514.htm This actually made a large scale splash in china. We will be the primary AI vendor for the implementation. We are helping them build their own on prem infrastructure. We are hiring in china for those interested in learning more! Email in profile. Edit: updated to clarify about perm residency.
  - auganov 9y ago
    That's not permanent residentship though, is it?
    - lamorz 9y ago
      TBH I do not think there is any "permanent relationship" in any organization in China. They can shut down your business without reason, or giving you some unreasonable reason.
    - agibsonccc 9y ago
      You would be able to work towards it with a proper visa. It would certainly be easier than a simple teaching job. China tends to look more favorably upon high skilled labor (especially AI). I will update my comment to clarify. Of note here, it is possible: https://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/refusal.htm https://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/refusal.htm It would come down to having a stable working job in china for an extended period.
      - tellarin 9y ago
        Nope. Many of the rules to obtain one and the implications of having "Chinese green card" are opaque or undefined. And It expires in 10 years; IF you manage to get one. Regulations for work visas also change very very frequently. Source: Living in China for 5+ years and going through these.
        agibsonccc 9y ago
        Thanks for clarifying! I've only done the process in japan. We are dealing with locals for the visa process and sponsoring foreigners but will concede ignorance on permanent residence. Thanks! That being said, your reply seems a bit "binary": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15016955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15016955 I don't seem to be completely wrong according to your comment here? The green card doesn't seem impossible, but I won't exactly claim to be an immigration lawyer.
- contingencies 9y ago
  Guangzhou now has a fast track permanent residence setup for foreigners investing or working. Shenzhen is about to echo it. Sounds like Fuzhou has as well. I have friends with Chinese green cards in Yunnan and Beijing, too. Sounds like Beijing is finally taking the back foot to provincial and local authorities on visa policy. I've long considered myself a vanguard economic migrant of the grandparent's brain drain. It's just impossible to have an independent career in R&D in much of the west and have any sort of economic security, much less start multiple businesses. My native Sydney is a particularly bad case.
  - tellarin 9y ago
    Beijing and Shanghai also have it. But even as "fast track" these are still completely opaque and random. Also, temporary.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    They say that every year, that immigration will be better now. And every year it isn't.
kristofferR 9y ago
That's unlikely to happen any time soon, especially due to the pollution concerns the article mentions and the intensifying crackdown on freedom. Moving to a foreign country is hard enough already, but it's even harder when the parts of the internet you can read/understand is blocked and circumventing the blockage is increasingly difficult and even criminalized.
- yourapostasy 9y ago
  If you are part of (or run) an established business, then I've read here on HN others living there now that the business can register with the government, and lease an authorized line with direct access to the global Internet. It is assumed the PRC government taps these leased lines. If anyone knows about this, a link to a PRC government site that describes the procedure would be helpful. I'm assuming like many other government processes dealing with non-Chinese Internet content, the registration process and operation is opaque and arbitrarily run, but it's better than trying to run a business from within China only upon VPNs.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

China doesn't even have a real immigration plan in place, you are more likely to win the lottery than get permanent residency even after working there for 10 years. Simply put, they don't really want foreigners like the USA (currently) does.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
agibsonccc 9y ago
Hi, Just want to give a different perspective here. It's definitely hard (japan was as well till recently) It's possible to get it on the right track. Tech jobs (especially depending on the province) provide incentives for a better path to something like this. I'm directly involved with the fuzhou government deal. My cofounder chris is quoted in the article. We are actually getting incentives and visas for foreign talent to move to southern china. We have a proper incorporation in china and everything setup. Their goal is to build a large scale tech hub. More of the news in mandarin from the launch: http://www.mnw.cn/news/fz/1759144.html http://www.mnw.cn/news/fz/1759144.html http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19717392.htm http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19717392.htm http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951957fec4fc.shtml http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951957fec4fc.shtm... http://www.chinadevelopment.com.cn/news/cy/2017/06/1154087.shtml http://www.chinadevelopment.com.cn/news/cy/2017/06/1154087.s... http://www.fjcl.gov.cn/xzdt/1709724.jhtml http://www.fjcl.gov.cn/xzdt/1709724.jhtml http://health.gmw.cn/2017-06/26/content_24892813.htm http://health.gmw.cn/2017-06/26/content_24892813.htm http://fj.people.com.cn/GB/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.html http://fj.people.com.cn/GB/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.htm... http://fj.people.com.cn/BIG5/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.html http://fj.people.com.cn/BIG5/n2/2017/0627/c181466-30385585.h... http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951ab08e5189.shtml http://news.fznews.com.cn/shehui/20170627/5951ab08e5189.shtm... http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19716514.htm http://fz.fjsen.com/2017-06/27/content_19716514.htm This actually made a large scale splash in china. We will be the primary AI vendor for the implementation. We are helping them build their own on prem infrastructure. We are hiring in china for those interested in learning more! Email in profile. Edit: updated to clarify about perm residency.
- auganov 9y ago
  That's not permanent residentship though, is it?
  - lamorz 9y ago
    TBH I do not think there is any "permanent relationship" in any organization in China. They can shut down your business without reason, or giving you some unreasonable reason.
  - agibsonccc 9y ago
    You would be able to work towards it with a proper visa. It would certainly be easier than a simple teaching job. China tends to look more favorably upon high skilled labor (especially AI). I will update my comment to clarify. Of note here, it is possible: https://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/refusal.htm https://www.travelchinaguide.com/embassy/visa/refusal.htm It would come down to having a stable working job in china for an extended period.
    - tellarin 9y ago
      Nope. Many of the rules to obtain one and the implications of having "Chinese green card" are opaque or undefined. And It expires in 10 years; IF you manage to get one. Regulations for work visas also change very very frequently. Source: Living in China for 5+ years and going through these.
      - agibsonccc 9y ago
        Thanks for clarifying! I've only done the process in japan. We are dealing with locals for the visa process and sponsoring foreigners but will concede ignorance on permanent residence. Thanks! That being said, your reply seems a bit "binary": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15016955 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15016955 I don't seem to be completely wrong according to your comment here? The green card doesn't seem impossible, but I won't exactly claim to be an immigration lawyer.
contingencies 9y ago
Guangzhou now has a fast track permanent residence setup for foreigners investing or working. Shenzhen is about to echo it. Sounds like Fuzhou has as well. I have friends with Chinese green cards in Yunnan and Beijing, too. Sounds like Beijing is finally taking the back foot to provincial and local authorities on visa policy. I've long considered myself a vanguard economic migrant of the grandparent's brain drain. It's just impossible to have an independent career in R&D in much of the west and have any sort of economic security, much less start multiple businesses. My native Sydney is a particularly bad case.
- tellarin 9y ago
  Beijing and Shanghai also have it. But even as "fast track" these are still completely opaque and random. Also, temporary.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  They say that every year, that immigration will be better now. And every year it isn't.

kristofferR 9y ago

That's unlikely to happen any time soon, especially due to the pollution concerns the article mentions and the intensifying crackdown on freedom. Moving to a foreign country is hard enough already, but it's even harder when the parts of the internet you can read/understand is blocked and circumventing the blockage is increasingly difficult and even criminalized.

yourapostasy 9y ago
If you are part of (or run) an established business, then I've read here on HN others living there now that the business can register with the government, and lease an authorized line with direct access to the global Internet. It is assumed the PRC government taps these leased lines. If anyone knows about this, a link to a PRC government site that describes the procedure would be helpful. I'm assuming like many other government processes dealing with non-Chinese Internet content, the registration process and operation is opaque and arbitrarily run, but it's better than trying to run a business from within China only upon VPNs.