5 ms·

Hehe, this made me interested. Coming from a small European country what are the things I should be ashamed of? Just the British and Americans? Or are Spanish

Hehe, this made me interested. Coming from a small European country what are the things I should be ashamed of? Just the British and Americans? Or are Spanish/Portuguese empires also something I should be constantly aware of.

Boothroid 9y ago
The Belgian Congo was a miserable episode in history by all accounts - often considered one of most terrible examples of recent colonialism. Something to bear in mind next time next time you are chomping down on a delicious Belgian chocolate what with that industry being a direct legacy of colonialism.
- vim_wannabe 9y ago
  I will definitely keep this in mind and flog myself on a bimonthly schedule. Luckily I havent seen any Belgian chocolate on sale here yet, ha. Hopefully the Swiss have stayed isolated long enough to not add in any more European guilt!
  - roywiggins 9y ago
    There is the whole Nazi gold thing. https://mobile.nytimes.com/1996/12/14/world/swiss-acknowledge-profiting-from-nazi-gold.html https://mobile.nytimes.com/1996/12/14/world/swiss-acknowledg...
adventured 9y ago
There's a direct relationship between present dominance/power and the amount of guilt you're supposed to feel. That's basically how it works. Spain and Portugal are no longer powerful nations, in either a military or economic sense (Portugal ranks behind Slovenia in GDP per capita for example). If Italy were a super power today, they would be endlessly targeted for derision for their past connections to empire/s. It would be proclaimed that their present status was a direct result of abuses from the past and that they should feel guilty about it all. Britain lost its empire and has persistently reduced in importance the last century, so they're rarely targeted for guilt regarding that (save for a few exceptions). It's a chapter in history books now, like so many former empires. The Ottoman Empire? Long gone. Turkey isn't a major world power. As such, most of the world simply doesn't care about its terrible past.
randomstudent 9y ago
The Spanish and Portuguese empires have much to be ashamed of too... Whether you should personally be ashamed for that is up to you.
- GenericsMotors 9y ago
  This is true; yet on the flip-side there is also a lot to be proud of. People tend to forget all the good. The same can be said for the Romans. They slaughtered and enslaved the native peoples of the Iberian peninsula, yet they also built roads, aqueducts, introduced new farming techniques and education. Should present-day italians feel ashamed of what their ancestors did? I don't think so.
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    The "what about all the good Hitler did?" argument. Doing those things did not require the slaughtering and enslavement, there's no balancing act that makes those acceptable.
    - vim_wannabe 9y ago
      Different people, different time, different ethics. Also none of the things mentioned finance themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ
    - GenericsMotors 9y ago
      Yeah, but you have the luxury of judging the actions of people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago from the comfort of your living-room recliner. According to your extremist logic, the following were all pretty much Hitler as well: - Mayans - Egyptians - Chinese - Mongols - Romans - Macedonians - Persians - Russians - Omayyad Caliphate - Ottoman Empire/Turkey - All african tribes who sold their brethren into slavery - French - British - Portuguese - Spanish - Dutch - Germans Pretty much any civilization that has ever existed has committed atrocities. What they did was brutal and there's no excusing this, but they also did good. You can deny it all you want but this is a fact.
Spooky23 9y ago
Be ashamed or worried about your own sins. You're not responsible for the sins of your father's father's father.
- mcguire 9y ago
  How many generations are required before you can enjoy the benefits without the guilt?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - Spooky23 9y ago
    If you're not a competent party to whatever you are guilty about, 0.
mcguire 9y ago
The Spanish invaded, conquered, and enslaved most of South and Central America. For the Portuguese, you probably have to look at Africa and Southeast Asia; I don't know much about them.

Boothroid 9y ago

The Belgian Congo was a miserable episode in history by all accounts - often considered one of most terrible examples of recent colonialism. Something to bear in mind next time next time you are chomping down on a delicious Belgian chocolate what with that industry being a direct legacy of colonialism.

vim_wannabe 9y ago
I will definitely keep this in mind and flog myself on a bimonthly schedule. Luckily I havent seen any Belgian chocolate on sale here yet, ha. Hopefully the Swiss have stayed isolated long enough to not add in any more European guilt!
- roywiggins 9y ago
  There is the whole Nazi gold thing. https://mobile.nytimes.com/1996/12/14/world/swiss-acknowledge-profiting-from-nazi-gold.html https://mobile.nytimes.com/1996/12/14/world/swiss-acknowledg...

adventured 9y ago

There's a direct relationship between present dominance/power and the amount of guilt you're supposed to feel. That's basically how it works. Spain and Portugal are no longer powerful nations, in either a military or economic sense (Portugal ranks behind Slovenia in GDP per capita for example). If Italy were a super power today, they would be endlessly targeted for derision for their past connections to empire/s. It would be proclaimed that their present status was a direct result of abuses from the past and that they should feel guilty about it all. Britain lost its empire and has persistently reduced in importance the last century, so they're rarely targeted for guilt regarding that (save for a few exceptions). It's a chapter in history books now, like so many former empires. The Ottoman Empire? Long gone. Turkey isn't a major world power. As such, most of the world simply doesn't care about its terrible past.

randomstudent 9y ago

The Spanish and Portuguese empires have much to be ashamed of too... Whether you should personally be ashamed for that is up to you.

GenericsMotors 9y ago
This is true; yet on the flip-side there is also a lot to be proud of. People tend to forget all the good. The same can be said for the Romans. They slaughtered and enslaved the native peoples of the Iberian peninsula, yet they also built roads, aqueducts, introduced new farming techniques and education. Should present-day italians feel ashamed of what their ancestors did? I don't think so.
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  The "what about all the good Hitler did?" argument. Doing those things did not require the slaughtering and enslavement, there's no balancing act that makes those acceptable.
  - vim_wannabe 9y ago
    Different people, different time, different ethics. Also none of the things mentioned finance themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc7HmhrgTuQ
  - GenericsMotors 9y ago
    Yeah, but you have the luxury of judging the actions of people who lived hundreds or thousands of years ago from the comfort of your living-room recliner. According to your extremist logic, the following were all pretty much Hitler as well: - Mayans - Egyptians - Chinese - Mongols - Romans - Macedonians - Persians - Russians - Omayyad Caliphate - Ottoman Empire/Turkey - All african tribes who sold their brethren into slavery - French - British - Portuguese - Spanish - Dutch - Germans Pretty much any civilization that has ever existed has committed atrocities. What they did was brutal and there's no excusing this, but they also did good. You can deny it all you want but this is a fact.

Spooky23 9y ago

Be ashamed or worried about your own sins. You're not responsible for the sins of your father's father's father.

mcguire 9y ago
How many generations are required before you can enjoy the benefits without the guilt?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- Spooky23 9y ago
  If you're not a competent party to whatever you are guilty about, 0.

mcguire 9y ago

The Spanish invaded, conquered, and enslaved most of South and Central America. For the Portuguese, you probably have to look at Africa and Southeast Asia; I don't know much about them.