11 ms·

SoundCloud faces do-or-die vote by investors

124 points by mcone 9y ago

reillyse 9y ago
What a messed up article. I don't know this CEO but using a picture taken at a festival two years ago as proof of incompetence seems very cheap.
- matt4077 9y ago
  Indeed–that image caption serves absolutely no purpose except to beat on someone who is at a low point anyway. And it doesn't even make sense! Taking a vacation every now and then is likely to improve productivity, and for SoundCloud specifically, it seems almost necessary to go to Burning Man and mingle. The criticism is especially rich coming from a guy who looks at least twice as stoned in his official TechCrunch photo than the SC CEO at Burning Man. Creating SoundCloud is more than 99.x% of people ever achieve, including me, the author, and the editor of this shameless excuse of an article. SoundCloud is obviously beloved by many. If they don't find a way to get those people to pay, they're in good company. At least they're not selling to AOL.
  - bad_user 9y ago
    How dare you suggest that people should take vacations and have a life?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - gist 9y ago
    Bias actually makes for interesting reading and clickbait. That is what it's all about. It's not about being fair and balanced. And actually given that the truth does not matter to the vast majority of people reading Techcrunch (or honestly any publication) I am not sure it even would be a smart business strategy. People watch wrestling and they know it's fixed. People read fiction. This is another version of it.
  - cuckcuckspruce 9y ago
    Ah TechCrunch, deciding to fill the gaping hole of bullshit that ValleyWag vacated.
- Insanity 9y ago
  I agree. I do not see how going to a festival is such a bad thing to do. It's actually a good thing to be able to still do something in your free time that you like..
- welder 9y ago
  Tweeted to the author: https://twitter.com/alanhamlett/status/895725907356205056 https://twitter.com/alanhamlett/status/895725907356205056
  - function_seven 9y ago
    Looks like they updated the image? Now I'm curious what they were using before.
    - tekacs 9y ago
      This is what it looked like before the change: http://archive.is/j8cns http://archive.is/j8cns
    - fweespeech 9y ago
      They did, it was a picture of the CEO at Burning Man iirc.
- mful 9y ago
  Also full of dramatic, unsubstantiated claims such as: > Now staff morale is in the toilet, the user experience is a mess, the subscription models are unappealing, competitors are growing rapidly and musicians are fleeing to other upload platform. I really thought TechCrunch was getting better, but man this is bad journalism. It's like a hit piece in a high school newspaper.
  - wyager 9y ago
    To be fair, the UX is a mess. The mobile experience is horrible and always tries to drag you to the app (which is not great), and SC is constantly trying to push the "social" aspect. I can't filter out "shares" or whatever from my feed, which means instead of listening to the artists I like, I end up listening to a bunch of random crap they share.
    - unclebucknasty 9y ago
      >always tries to drag you to the app To be fair, this seems to be the unfortunate norm these days.
    - narrowtux 9y ago
      What irked me about that one was that the UX being a mess can't possibly be only caused by the layoff woes 2 weeks ago.
  - danso 9y ago
    The OP probably should have been a link to Axios, which is the outlet that broke the news; TC is just reblogging it and adding its own commentary/context: https://www.axios.com/soundcloud-asks-investors-to-support-rescue-deal-2471398461.html https://www.axios.com/soundcloud-asks-investors-to-support-r...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- danso 9y ago
  edit: Apparently the photo was changed within the hour. According to Google Cache, this is what was in the article: http://imgur.com/a/N8OR9 http://imgur.com/a/N8OR9 http://archive.is/hkmkY http://archive.is/hkmkY ---- What was the original caption/photo? Right now, it says: http://imgur.com/a/N5EcV http://imgur.com/a/N5EcV > SoundCloud CEO Alex Ljung would be replaced if the company receives the new funding FWIW, in other articles, it's been insinuated that Ljung went off to Burning Man at a time when Rome was burning: https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/inside-the-storm-at-soundcloud https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/inside-the-storm-at-soundcl... > By August 2014, it was abundantly clear that the SoundCloud’s advertising program, which would allow artists and labels to collect royalties, would not launch as planned. Despite Toig’s promises, not a single major label had agreed to a deal. The project launched with a eleventh-hour pivot to focus on independent creators, with Toig later apologizing at an all-hands meeting for failing to sign the majors...Ljung assured everyone in attendance that the label arrangements would eventually get done. A few days later, he flew to California and went off the grid. It was time for Burning Man. Further down in the article: > ...The stalled deals also affected internal operations at SoundCloud headquarters in Berlin. Though the $150 million round never closed, managers had been instructed to double the size of the company’s 150-person engineering team.Meanwhile, Ljung continued to travel the world. In May 2015, he spoke at a Burning Man–esque festival outside of Las Vegas called Further Future. In June, he showed up in an ad campaign for Italian luxury company Salvatore Ferragamo. When SoundCloud employees from around the world flew to Berlin for an August retreat, he was nowhere to be found.
  - tequila_shot 9y ago
    Yes. The article you are referring to has been to the top of HN. And I think the buzzfeed article did a good job by speculating on the reasons why Sound Cloud may be doing bad with CEO not being available. This TechCrunch article, however uses just the image with no context to explain something which is _completely_ out of context for what this article is trying to convey.
- unclebucknasty 9y ago
  Haven't read TC in years, but is this type of "article" now the norm there? The tone is converging on unhinged.
  - kleborp 9y ago
    The author has been kind of a joke on underground hockey twitter (long story) about being the stereotypical self-unaware tech evangelist for some time. Not really surprised to see that it came from him.
    - unclebucknasty 9y ago
      Ah. Interesting. Seems like his editor might've noticed. Maybe TC likes the attention that comes with the controversy.
- sergiotapia 9y ago
  These press prostitutes know exactly what they're doing. Thank God for services like archive.is because otherwise they just blackhole everything scummy they do. http://archive.is/j8cns http://archive.is/j8cns
- mikestew 9y ago
  Not only am I not surprised that the CEO of a music-based company is at Burning Man, I fully expect him to show up at SXSW as well. Anything less would almost seem like a dereliction of duty.
esaym 9y ago
> Now it’s asking investors for $169.5 million at a pre-money enterprise valuation of just $150 million Ouch. I hope they get the money. I really don't want it to go away. I have not found an alternative that has so many 1+ hour long megamixes :(
- jmfurlott 9y ago
  Youtube is about it, YT Music app for mobile (all unfortunately)
- cbhl 9y ago
  What about the Internet Archive?
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    An organization would need to be formed that existed and operated outside of jurisdictions friendly to copyright law. Maybe Turkey?
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      Turkey definitely are signatories to international copyright treaties. Last i looked only a few places weren't including Papua New Guinea. TRIPs and Berne are probably the main ones. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
  - Figs 9y ago
    SoundCloud blocked them from making a backup copy of the site. Source: https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/888093838107189249 https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/888093838107189249 I don't know why.
    - k-mcgrady 9y ago
      >> I don't know why. Wouldn't that be mass copyright infringement that Soundcloud would have a duty to prevent?
deleted 9y ago
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sarreph 9y ago
For all those looking to make a SoundCloud clone: What is HN's opinion on its failings (from a user perspective) — i.e. how would you make SoundCloud better right now? Also interested to hear those who can balance with commercial viability.
- ghaff 9y ago
  There's no real evidence that there is a profitable business model for streaming music except insofar as subsidies from other parts of the business make sense overall. Just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean that there is a path to making money with it. I don't have strong feelings about what's good and bad about their UI, etc. Their main failing is that they're probably not going to exist much longer unless Apple, Google, or someone along those lines snaps them up at fire sale prices and is OK with losing money on them.
- deleted 9y ago
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- nxsynonym 9y ago
  Go back to basics. Keep it focused on community facing artists, remixes, dj sets, etc. From what I've seen they suffered most from lack of direction, weak leadership, and no real business plan from the beginning. It seems (correct me if I'm wrong) it started as a hobby project and got twisted into a SaaS model that didn't fit it's purpose or audience. As far as monetization - why not have a Patreon-esque system of support specific content producers/artists? I don't think a blanket monthly subscription is really a good fit but personally I would pay 1-5$ / month for specific artists/content providers and follow only them.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - bad_user 9y ago
    > why not have a Patreon-esque system You've lost me there. You can't, because people don't pay and don't want to pay, unless they are forced to, as in there's actual scarcity (i.e. no way to easily get that content from anywhere else).
jgh 9y ago
i really like soundcloud for drum and bass mixes that would otherwise be pretty difficult / impossible to find otherwise. I will miss it if it goes under :(
- alistproducer2 9y ago
  Same here. The EDM catalog was/is? awesome.
- quuquuquu 9y ago
  devil's advocate, why not youtube, or reddit, and if downloading is a problem, mega?
  - xnzakg 9y ago
    Not the user you replied to, but for me, Youtube's "automatic mixes" loop pretty quickly. Also, YT is a bit more of a pain to use on mobile (either leave a video running, uses up battery and data, or use a modded version of Youtube which pretends it's Youtube Red and has background playback enabled). Soundcloud "just worked". It even caches your feed after you listen to it, so I was able to use it without it using my mobile data for a while.
  - jgh 9y ago
    well youtube has a video associated with it, i usually plug my phone into the car and listen there. Plus the youtube "mixes" thing isn't remotely the same thing as a good set from a real dj. The dnb subreddit focuses mainly on new releases of individual tracks and discussion about artists, not so much for people to post mixes. I dunno, soundcloud was just better. I could sit in the car and search for an artist and find a mix (bootlegged or otherwise) and listen to it within a few seconds and be on my way. Other things are just clunky and requires a lot more planning in advance.
- matclayton 9y ago
  Give us a try, mixcloud.com
claudfuen 9y ago
Being in the music industry, I always had a negative experience using SoundCloud - It's not surprising that by neglecting their user's needs they are systematically imploding.
- bcherny 9y ago
  Could you elaborate? I was under the impression that SoundCloud is one of the few platforms that treats musicians well, and lets fans discover really small bands/djs.
- forgotmysn 9y ago
  I feel like they had the opposite problem. They only focused on fan-service, at the expense of profitability. The reason the music industry hates it is because it removes them as gatekeepers. Soundcloud gave a platform to musicians that allowed them to gain exposure to audiences without having to bend the knee to LA or NY.
ThomPete 9y ago
Of course we are all thinking (hmm should we do a clone) and believe me I am not going to deny it's tempting, hell I might even be pushing for something like that. But the reality is most likely that someone is going to buy them for no money and then continue the platform trying to beat the dead horse alive. The reality is that you don't make any money on streaming services if you don't hold the rights. Netflix and Spotify should be a good inspiration for how to do it and they aren't even doing as well as one might think. But there is a very simple way to make a good (non funded) business out of soundcloud and that is to turn it into a paid platform for artists who want to push things up there.
ipsum2 9y ago
Shameless plug: if you or your friends have important data on SoundCloud, check out my free service to back it up: https://scupper.io https://scupper.io.
- mynewtb 9y ago
  Or make a true backup by downloading it all with e.g. youtube-dl instead.
  - autotune 9y ago
    Can't help but wonder what the sound quality of a downloaded youtube vid converted to mp3 would be vs a straight up mp3 or FLAC.
    - webreac 9y ago
      YouTube-dl provides the list of all the available formats. You choose the desired quality.
    - mynewtb 9y ago
      youtube-dl's name is unfortunate since it.grew.to support many other sites, such as SoundCloud. You can download flac or wav files often using it on SC content.
    - kakarot 9y ago
      Looks like it's time for you to learn about the magic that is youtube-dl. It will change your life.
    - CrystalLangUser 9y ago
      Bad. Lossy -> Lossy transcoding will always introduce artifacts. Unless the origin source is lossless. (Actually lossless, not a file someone transcoded to a lossless format from a lossy origin)
- Raphmedia 9y ago
  "By continuing, you agree that you own the music associated with the account and give us permission to host it." So, this services simply downloads the files and then add on your server? How is this helping me back it up?
alistproducer2 9y ago
I pretty much saw this coming. Posted to a IPFS group last year about using IPFS to make a decentralized soundcloud clone. I was lucky enough to get a response from Juan, the creator of IPFS. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ipfs-users/1Mu2Vh8shI0 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ipfs-users/1Mu2Vh8sh...
- alistproducer2 9y ago
  I honestly don't understand the hate. If you're going to DV me at least take a sec to read the thread or let me know what your issue is. The thread has some good responses from Juan; that's really the only reason I posted it here. I thought of going decentralized because (at the time) I loved soundcloud. I used it as an artist and also as a listener. I've been around long enough to know that their model was not sustainable and eventually all the great content would disappear. Decentralized makes sense for something like SC. Let the people who find it valuable share in the costs of serving it a la bit torrent.
  - TekMol 9y ago
    I see 2 problems with this approach: 1) IPFS does not work in the browser. 2) People might not want to share because of the copyright issue.
    - lgierth 9y ago
      There's an alpha implementation of the IPFS and libp2p stack here: https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs and https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p
thinbeige 9y ago
> If it can’t find funding or a buyer, SoundCloud could vaporize, destroying its massive archive of user-uploaded music, podcasts and other sounds. Wrong. If Soundcloud goes bankrupt then the state tries to find a buyer for a new SoundCloud with a virgin cap table. So Soundcloud won't disappear whatever happens.
- phreeza 9y ago
  Are you sure that is what happens, given that SoundCloud is a German company? Afaik a kind of administrator gets appointed by the Court who can take over administration of the company, not sure about the cap table though.
  - chinathrow 9y ago
    SoundCloud looks like a UK company with a german daughter company to me: https://m.soundcloud.com/imprint https://m.soundcloud.com/imprint
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
eggpy 9y ago
> employees secretly using Spotify. Well yeah. There's not even competition there. And shouldn't be really, they are fundamentally different platforms.
- rewrew 9y ago
  And that's the problem -- the CEO wasted a ton of time and resources trying to create a Spotify competitor that just burned resources.
- chedabob 9y ago
  Probably unaware it exists like everyone else. SoundCloud Go has been so poorly marketed. Up until a few weeks ago, I only ever saw it mentioned on tracks where I could only listen to a sample. On my feed right now, the only link to it is in the overflow menu on the top navigation. Meanwhile, SoundCloud Pro has a big advert which takes up about 1/6th of the page.
yellowapple 9y ago
"Employees told us the company is “a shitshow,” with a lack of product direction, talent leaving and employees secretly using Spotify." Weird. I never really thought about SoundCloud and Spotify being actual competitors. I've always felt that SoundCloud did a lot better with indie/obscure artists, remixes, and the whole "soundclown" meme genre, whereas Spotify did a lot better with commercial/mainstream artists and albums. I use both frequently.
- ocWavean 9y ago
  That's part of the problem. They focused all their attention on making a Spotify competitor, when the core principle of what SC unique is the community and a vast underground culture of unknown artists hoping to make it big. The two are similar in that they're online streaming services, but insofar as everything else, not even close.
- k-mcgrady 9y ago
  If you haven't seen it checkout Soundcloud GO. Essentially they pivoted to a Spotify competitor a couple of years ago but they still have the old, non-subscription version of Soundcloud available too.
deleted 9y ago
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15charlimit 9y ago
"Soundcloud is fine and will be around for years, stop backing up all of the music". Didn't the CEO say something along those lines ~2 weeks ago when they forced the archive.org folks to stop pulling down a backup copy of everything? Funny how quickly that was proven to be BS. Not that anyone should be surprised by this outcome.
- HNNoLikey 9y ago
  Two years ago, folks still said they'd close shop. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11079864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11079864
- mathattack 9y ago
  Reminds me of the financial crisis when banks that were losing billions would claim to be "Awash with liquidity." Once the CEOs admit weakness, the sharks circle tighter.
em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
Privacy Badger would have to be disabled whenever I accessed SoundCloud. That was my indicator to avoid it. I miss the days of RSS podcasting.
jbb67 9y ago
How can a website that lets people upload music files and comment on them, and play the music POSSIBLY need $170 MILLION to operate? I just don't get what they could possibly need that amount of money for.
- rusk 9y ago
  Litigation warchest
- pavlov 9y ago
  Some random guesses: * Business development teams for the Nth media company collaboration scheme * App development teams for the Nth iOS app redesign * Back-end and ops teams for the Nth overwrought storage architecture * Front-end teams to explore rewrites in the Nth proposed in-house JS/CSS framework * Operations people to keep the aforementioned people paid and fed
- _pmf_ 9y ago
  Licensing music. As to the reasoning behind considering licensing music, then giving it away for free to your customers to be a wise business decision, I don't quite follow their strategy.
- deleted 9y ago
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lousken 9y ago
The reason I stopped using soundcloud as soon as I could was the fact that soundcloud uses 128kbps mp3 for most of the songs. If that would be at least 160k or 128k opus that would've been fine. But 128k mp3 is noticeably worse.
xya 9y ago
lol, just wondering why there is no soundcloud ico yet, as it seems so easy to set it up https://icobox.io/ https://icobox.io/ - would it be too much data for a blockchain based system? - does anyone need a distributed soundcloud?

124 points by mcone 9y ago

What a messed up article. I don't know this CEO but using a picture taken at a festival two years ago as proof of incompetence seems very cheap.

matt4077 9y ago
Indeed–that image caption serves absolutely no purpose except to beat on someone who is at a low point anyway. And it doesn't even make sense! Taking a vacation every now and then is likely to improve productivity, and for SoundCloud specifically, it seems almost necessary to go to Burning Man and mingle. The criticism is especially rich coming from a guy who looks at least twice as stoned in his official TechCrunch photo than the SC CEO at Burning Man. Creating SoundCloud is more than 99.x% of people ever achieve, including me, the author, and the editor of this shameless excuse of an article. SoundCloud is obviously beloved by many. If they don't find a way to get those people to pay, they're in good company. At least they're not selling to AOL.
- bad_user 9y ago
  How dare you suggest that people should take vacations and have a life?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- gist 9y ago
  Bias actually makes for interesting reading and clickbait. That is what it's all about. It's not about being fair and balanced. And actually given that the truth does not matter to the vast majority of people reading Techcrunch (or honestly any publication) I am not sure it even would be a smart business strategy. People watch wrestling and they know it's fixed. People read fiction. This is another version of it.
- cuckcuckspruce 9y ago
  Ah TechCrunch, deciding to fill the gaping hole of bullshit that ValleyWag vacated.
Insanity 9y ago
I agree. I do not see how going to a festival is such a bad thing to do. It's actually a good thing to be able to still do something in your free time that you like..
welder 9y ago
Tweeted to the author: https://twitter.com/alanhamlett/status/895725907356205056 https://twitter.com/alanhamlett/status/895725907356205056
- function_seven 9y ago
  Looks like they updated the image? Now I'm curious what they were using before.
  - tekacs 9y ago
    This is what it looked like before the change: http://archive.is/j8cns http://archive.is/j8cns
  - fweespeech 9y ago
    They did, it was a picture of the CEO at Burning Man iirc.
mful 9y ago
Also full of dramatic, unsubstantiated claims such as: > Now staff morale is in the toilet, the user experience is a mess, the subscription models are unappealing, competitors are growing rapidly and musicians are fleeing to other upload platform. I really thought TechCrunch was getting better, but man this is bad journalism. It's like a hit piece in a high school newspaper.
- wyager 9y ago
  To be fair, the UX is a mess. The mobile experience is horrible and always tries to drag you to the app (which is not great), and SC is constantly trying to push the "social" aspect. I can't filter out "shares" or whatever from my feed, which means instead of listening to the artists I like, I end up listening to a bunch of random crap they share.
  - unclebucknasty 9y ago
    >always tries to drag you to the app To be fair, this seems to be the unfortunate norm these days.
  - narrowtux 9y ago
    What irked me about that one was that the UX being a mess can't possibly be only caused by the layoff woes 2 weeks ago.
- danso 9y ago
  The OP probably should have been a link to Axios, which is the outlet that broke the news; TC is just reblogging it and adding its own commentary/context: https://www.axios.com/soundcloud-asks-investors-to-support-rescue-deal-2471398461.html https://www.axios.com/soundcloud-asks-investors-to-support-r...
deleted 9y ago
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danso 9y ago
edit: Apparently the photo was changed within the hour. According to Google Cache, this is what was in the article: http://imgur.com/a/N8OR9 http://imgur.com/a/N8OR9 http://archive.is/hkmkY http://archive.is/hkmkY ---- What was the original caption/photo? Right now, it says: http://imgur.com/a/N5EcV http://imgur.com/a/N5EcV > SoundCloud CEO Alex Ljung would be replaced if the company receives the new funding FWIW, in other articles, it's been insinuated that Ljung went off to Burning Man at a time when Rome was burning: https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/inside-the-storm-at-soundcloud https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/inside-the-storm-at-soundcl... > By August 2014, it was abundantly clear that the SoundCloud’s advertising program, which would allow artists and labels to collect royalties, would not launch as planned. Despite Toig’s promises, not a single major label had agreed to a deal. The project launched with a eleventh-hour pivot to focus on independent creators, with Toig later apologizing at an all-hands meeting for failing to sign the majors...Ljung assured everyone in attendance that the label arrangements would eventually get done. A few days later, he flew to California and went off the grid. It was time for Burning Man. Further down in the article: > ...The stalled deals also affected internal operations at SoundCloud headquarters in Berlin. Though the $150 million round never closed, managers had been instructed to double the size of the company’s 150-person engineering team.Meanwhile, Ljung continued to travel the world. In May 2015, he spoke at a Burning Man–esque festival outside of Las Vegas called Further Future. In June, he showed up in an ad campaign for Italian luxury company Salvatore Ferragamo. When SoundCloud employees from around the world flew to Berlin for an August retreat, he was nowhere to be found.
- tequila_shot 9y ago
  Yes. The article you are referring to has been to the top of HN. And I think the buzzfeed article did a good job by speculating on the reasons why Sound Cloud may be doing bad with CEO not being available. This TechCrunch article, however uses just the image with no context to explain something which is _completely_ out of context for what this article is trying to convey.
unclebucknasty 9y ago
Haven't read TC in years, but is this type of "article" now the norm there? The tone is converging on unhinged.
- kleborp 9y ago
  The author has been kind of a joke on underground hockey twitter (long story) about being the stereotypical self-unaware tech evangelist for some time. Not really surprised to see that it came from him.
  - unclebucknasty 9y ago
    Ah. Interesting. Seems like his editor might've noticed. Maybe TC likes the attention that comes with the controversy.
sergiotapia 9y ago
These press prostitutes know exactly what they're doing. Thank God for services like archive.is because otherwise they just blackhole everything scummy they do. http://archive.is/j8cns http://archive.is/j8cns
mikestew 9y ago
Not only am I not surprised that the CEO of a music-based company is at Burning Man, I fully expect him to show up at SXSW as well. Anything less would almost seem like a dereliction of duty.

esaym 9y ago

> Now it’s asking investors for $169.5 million at a pre-money enterprise valuation of just $150 million Ouch. I hope they get the money. I really don't want it to go away. I have not found an alternative that has so many 1+ hour long megamixes :(

jmfurlott 9y ago
Youtube is about it, YT Music app for mobile (all unfortunately)
cbhl 9y ago
What about the Internet Archive?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  An organization would need to be formed that existed and operated outside of jurisdictions friendly to copyright law. Maybe Turkey?
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Turkey definitely are signatories to international copyright treaties. Last i looked only a few places weren't including Papua New Guinea. TRIPs and Berne are probably the main ones. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention
- Figs 9y ago
  SoundCloud blocked them from making a backup copy of the site. Source: https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/888093838107189249 https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/888093838107189249 I don't know why.
  - k-mcgrady 9y ago
    >> I don't know why. Wouldn't that be mass copyright infringement that Soundcloud would have a duty to prevent?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

sarreph 9y ago

For all those looking to make a SoundCloud clone: What is HN's opinion on its failings (from a user perspective) — i.e. how would you make SoundCloud better right now? Also interested to hear those who can balance with commercial viability.

ghaff 9y ago
There's no real evidence that there is a profitable business model for streaming music except insofar as subsidies from other parts of the business make sense overall. Just because a lot of people like something doesn't mean that there is a path to making money with it. I don't have strong feelings about what's good and bad about their UI, etc. Their main failing is that they're probably not going to exist much longer unless Apple, Google, or someone along those lines snaps them up at fire sale prices and is OK with losing money on them.
deleted 9y ago
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nxsynonym 9y ago
Go back to basics. Keep it focused on community facing artists, remixes, dj sets, etc. From what I've seen they suffered most from lack of direction, weak leadership, and no real business plan from the beginning. It seems (correct me if I'm wrong) it started as a hobby project and got twisted into a SaaS model that didn't fit it's purpose or audience. As far as monetization - why not have a Patreon-esque system of support specific content producers/artists? I don't think a blanket monthly subscription is really a good fit but personally I would pay 1-5$ / month for specific artists/content providers and follow only them.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bad_user 9y ago
  > why not have a Patreon-esque system You've lost me there. You can't, because people don't pay and don't want to pay, unless they are forced to, as in there's actual scarcity (i.e. no way to easily get that content from anywhere else).

jgh 9y ago

i really like soundcloud for drum and bass mixes that would otherwise be pretty difficult / impossible to find otherwise. I will miss it if it goes under :(

alistproducer2 9y ago
Same here. The EDM catalog was/is? awesome.
quuquuquu 9y ago
devil's advocate, why not youtube, or reddit, and if downloading is a problem, mega?
- xnzakg 9y ago
  Not the user you replied to, but for me, Youtube's "automatic mixes" loop pretty quickly. Also, YT is a bit more of a pain to use on mobile (either leave a video running, uses up battery and data, or use a modded version of Youtube which pretends it's Youtube Red and has background playback enabled). Soundcloud "just worked". It even caches your feed after you listen to it, so I was able to use it without it using my mobile data for a while.
- jgh 9y ago
  well youtube has a video associated with it, i usually plug my phone into the car and listen there. Plus the youtube "mixes" thing isn't remotely the same thing as a good set from a real dj. The dnb subreddit focuses mainly on new releases of individual tracks and discussion about artists, not so much for people to post mixes. I dunno, soundcloud was just better. I could sit in the car and search for an artist and find a mix (bootlegged or otherwise) and listen to it within a few seconds and be on my way. Other things are just clunky and requires a lot more planning in advance.
matclayton 9y ago
Give us a try, mixcloud.com

claudfuen 9y ago

Being in the music industry, I always had a negative experience using SoundCloud - It's not surprising that by neglecting their user's needs they are systematically imploding.

bcherny 9y ago
Could you elaborate? I was under the impression that SoundCloud is one of the few platforms that treats musicians well, and lets fans discover really small bands/djs.
forgotmysn 9y ago
I feel like they had the opposite problem. They only focused on fan-service, at the expense of profitability. The reason the music industry hates it is because it removes them as gatekeepers. Soundcloud gave a platform to musicians that allowed them to gain exposure to audiences without having to bend the knee to LA or NY.

ThomPete 9y ago

Of course we are all thinking (hmm should we do a clone) and believe me I am not going to deny it's tempting, hell I might even be pushing for something like that. But the reality is most likely that someone is going to buy them for no money and then continue the platform trying to beat the dead horse alive. The reality is that you don't make any money on streaming services if you don't hold the rights. Netflix and Spotify should be a good inspiration for how to do it and they aren't even doing as well as one might think. But there is a very simple way to make a good (non funded) business out of soundcloud and that is to turn it into a paid platform for artists who want to push things up there.

ipsum2 9y ago

Shameless plug: if you or your friends have important data on SoundCloud, check out my free service to back it up: https://scupper.io https://scupper.io.

mynewtb 9y ago
Or make a true backup by downloading it all with e.g. youtube-dl instead.
- autotune 9y ago
  Can't help but wonder what the sound quality of a downloaded youtube vid converted to mp3 would be vs a straight up mp3 or FLAC.
  - webreac 9y ago
    YouTube-dl provides the list of all the available formats. You choose the desired quality.
  - mynewtb 9y ago
    youtube-dl's name is unfortunate since it.grew.to support many other sites, such as SoundCloud. You can download flac or wav files often using it on SC content.
  - kakarot 9y ago
    Looks like it's time for you to learn about the magic that is youtube-dl. It will change your life.
  - CrystalLangUser 9y ago
    Bad. Lossy -> Lossy transcoding will always introduce artifacts. Unless the origin source is lossless. (Actually lossless, not a file someone transcoded to a lossless format from a lossy origin)
Raphmedia 9y ago
"By continuing, you agree that you own the music associated with the account and give us permission to host it." So, this services simply downloads the files and then add on your server? How is this helping me back it up?

alistproducer2 9y ago

I pretty much saw this coming. Posted to a IPFS group last year about using IPFS to make a decentralized soundcloud clone. I was lucky enough to get a response from Juan, the creator of IPFS. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ipfs-users/1Mu2Vh8shI0 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ipfs-users/1Mu2Vh8sh...

alistproducer2 9y ago
I honestly don't understand the hate. If you're going to DV me at least take a sec to read the thread or let me know what your issue is. The thread has some good responses from Juan; that's really the only reason I posted it here. I thought of going decentralized because (at the time) I loved soundcloud. I used it as an artist and also as a listener. I've been around long enough to know that their model was not sustainable and eventually all the great content would disappear. Decentralized makes sense for something like SC. Let the people who find it valuable share in the costs of serving it a la bit torrent.
- TekMol 9y ago
  I see 2 problems with this approach: 1) IPFS does not work in the browser. 2) People might not want to share because of the copyright issue.
  - lgierth 9y ago
    There's an alpha implementation of the IPFS and libp2p stack here: https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs https://github.com/ipfs/js-ipfs and https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p https://github.com/libp2p/js-libp2p

thinbeige 9y ago

> If it can’t find funding or a buyer, SoundCloud could vaporize, destroying its massive archive of user-uploaded music, podcasts and other sounds. Wrong. If Soundcloud goes bankrupt then the state tries to find a buyer for a new SoundCloud with a virgin cap table. So Soundcloud won't disappear whatever happens.

phreeza 9y ago
Are you sure that is what happens, given that SoundCloud is a German company? Afaik a kind of administrator gets appointed by the Court who can take over administration of the company, not sure about the cap table though.
- chinathrow 9y ago
  SoundCloud looks like a UK company with a german daughter company to me: https://m.soundcloud.com/imprint https://m.soundcloud.com/imprint
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

eggpy 9y ago

> employees secretly using Spotify. Well yeah. There's not even competition there. And shouldn't be really, they are fundamentally different platforms.

rewrew 9y ago
And that's the problem -- the CEO wasted a ton of time and resources trying to create a Spotify competitor that just burned resources.
chedabob 9y ago
Probably unaware it exists like everyone else. SoundCloud Go has been so poorly marketed. Up until a few weeks ago, I only ever saw it mentioned on tracks where I could only listen to a sample. On my feed right now, the only link to it is in the overflow menu on the top navigation. Meanwhile, SoundCloud Pro has a big advert which takes up about 1/6th of the page.

yellowapple 9y ago

"Employees told us the company is “a shitshow,” with a lack of product direction, talent leaving and employees secretly using Spotify." Weird. I never really thought about SoundCloud and Spotify being actual competitors. I've always felt that SoundCloud did a lot better with indie/obscure artists, remixes, and the whole "soundclown" meme genre, whereas Spotify did a lot better with commercial/mainstream artists and albums. I use both frequently.

ocWavean 9y ago
That's part of the problem. They focused all their attention on making a Spotify competitor, when the core principle of what SC unique is the community and a vast underground culture of unknown artists hoping to make it big. The two are similar in that they're online streaming services, but insofar as everything else, not even close.
k-mcgrady 9y ago
If you haven't seen it checkout Soundcloud GO. Essentially they pivoted to a Spotify competitor a couple of years ago but they still have the old, non-subscription version of Soundcloud available too.

deleted 9y ago

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15charlimit 9y ago

"Soundcloud is fine and will be around for years, stop backing up all of the music". Didn't the CEO say something along those lines ~2 weeks ago when they forced the archive.org folks to stop pulling down a backup copy of everything? Funny how quickly that was proven to be BS. Not that anyone should be surprised by this outcome.

HNNoLikey 9y ago
Two years ago, folks still said they'd close shop. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11079864 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11079864
mathattack 9y ago
Reminds me of the financial crisis when banks that were losing billions would claim to be "Awash with liquidity." Once the CEOs admit weakness, the sharks circle tighter.

em3rgent0rdr 9y ago

Privacy Badger would have to be disabled whenever I accessed SoundCloud. That was my indicator to avoid it. I miss the days of RSS podcasting.

jbb67 9y ago

How can a website that lets people upload music files and comment on them, and play the music POSSIBLY need $170 MILLION to operate? I just don't get what they could possibly need that amount of money for.

rusk 9y ago
Litigation warchest
pavlov 9y ago
Some random guesses: * Business development teams for the Nth media company collaboration scheme * App development teams for the Nth iOS app redesign * Back-end and ops teams for the Nth overwrought storage architecture * Front-end teams to explore rewrites in the Nth proposed in-house JS/CSS framework * Operations people to keep the aforementioned people paid and fed
_pmf_ 9y ago
Licensing music. As to the reasoning behind considering licensing music, then giving it away for free to your customers to be a wise business decision, I don't quite follow their strategy.
deleted 9y ago
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lousken 9y ago

The reason I stopped using soundcloud as soon as I could was the fact that soundcloud uses 128kbps mp3 for most of the songs. If that would be at least 160k or 128k opus that would've been fine. But 128k mp3 is noticeably worse.

xya 9y ago

lol, just wondering why there is no soundcloud ico yet, as it seems so easy to set it up https://icobox.io/ https://icobox.io/ - would it be too much data for a blockchain based system? - does anyone need a distributed soundcloud?