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"...internet access and freedom is curtailed: popular sites like Google, Facebook and YouTube are not accessible." That line caught my attention for two things

"...internet access and freedom is curtailed: popular sites like Google, Facebook and YouTube are not accessible." That line caught my attention for two things. One, it intimates internet access is related to freedom, which I think has merit. And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them.

kbart 9y ago
"Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them." Most of foreigners traveling in China would certainly disagree with you. No Facebook, no Gmail, no Youtube == "no Internet" for most casual western users.
- antoinealb 9y ago
  I was in Shenzhen two weeks ago. You just buy a cheap VPN access like everybody in the tech scene there and you go on with your life. It's not hard to do, even from inside the country.
alien1993 9y ago
I think they have their chinese counterparts like Baidu, WeChat and the like.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
> And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them. What's more, in parts of China where these websites aren't blocked (Hong Kong, Taiwan if we call it a part of China), they become very popular again and the mainland Chinese alternatives fall off the map.
- kuschku 9y ago
  The network lockin effect is very strong, sadly. This is why such sites without real alternatives should be controlled by society, and not by companies where two people hold the majority of voting rights.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    I disagree. I trust Larry and Sergei more than I trust Xi and Li.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      The question is if the power is actually with Larry and Sergei, or if someone more powerful could easily seize power from them, or pressure them into doing something they want. If Larry or Sergei die, do you trust all their inheritors? Do you trust all people who can threaten Larry or Sergei? I don't.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Do you true the next secretly chosen and annointed royal red family president after Xi? That's if Xi actually decides to leave after his term is up, of course.
        kuschku 9y ago
        That's exactly the question, and the issue. And that's why you should trust the chinese government, Google, private internet access, etc all equally much.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        The third world and first world version of these problems are similar in form but completely different in magnitudes.
- chrischen 9y ago
  Those places are different cultures and sifferent social groups. I can also give the example of Japan and Korea in which Facebook is not very popular.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Facebook is medium popular in Japan, lots of Japanese have Facebook accounts, no idea about Korea. Nobody is really using wechat outside of china unless they have a strong connection to china.
    - chrischen 9y ago
      They have them but I rarely encountered any that actively used it, although Instagram was quite popular.

kbart 9y ago

"Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them." Most of foreigners traveling in China would certainly disagree with you. No Facebook, no Gmail, no Youtube == "no Internet" for most casual western users.

antoinealb 9y ago
I was in Shenzhen two weeks ago. You just buy a cheap VPN access like everybody in the tech scene there and you go on with your life. It's not hard to do, even from inside the country.

alien1993 9y ago

I think they have their chinese counterparts like Baidu, WeChat and the like.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

> And second, Google, Facebook, and YouTube are obviously not essential, cause those millions get by just fine without them. What's more, in parts of China where these websites aren't blocked (Hong Kong, Taiwan if we call it a part of China), they become very popular again and the mainland Chinese alternatives fall off the map.

kuschku 9y ago
The network lockin effect is very strong, sadly. This is why such sites without real alternatives should be controlled by society, and not by companies where two people hold the majority of voting rights.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  I disagree. I trust Larry and Sergei more than I trust Xi and Li.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    The question is if the power is actually with Larry and Sergei, or if someone more powerful could easily seize power from them, or pressure them into doing something they want. If Larry or Sergei die, do you trust all their inheritors? Do you trust all people who can threaten Larry or Sergei? I don't.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Do you true the next secretly chosen and annointed royal red family president after Xi? That's if Xi actually decides to leave after his term is up, of course.
      - kuschku 9y ago
        That's exactly the question, and the issue. And that's why you should trust the chinese government, Google, private internet access, etc all equally much.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        The third world and first world version of these problems are similar in form but completely different in magnitudes.
chrischen 9y ago
Those places are different cultures and sifferent social groups. I can also give the example of Japan and Korea in which Facebook is not very popular.
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Facebook is medium popular in Japan, lots of Japanese have Facebook accounts, no idea about Korea. Nobody is really using wechat outside of china unless they have a strong connection to china.
  - chrischen 9y ago
    They have them but I rarely encountered any that actively used it, although Instagram was quite popular.