5 ms·

I'm a little confused what their case is, can't the company fire them at any time with no reason? I don't really know much about employment law, but that was my

I'm a little confused what their case is, can't the company fire them at any time with no reason? I don't really know much about employment law, but that was my understanding. Like if they went on stage and flopped, they could get fired. Similarly maybe they were too good. Or the boss was having a bad day.

wcummings 9y ago
Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc..
- ucaetano 9y ago
  > Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc.. Actually, they can (with a few exceptions). California is at-will employment: "At-will employment is a term used in U.S. labor law for contractual relationships in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning." Or, as the Supreme Court of California explains: "[A]n employer may terminate its employees at will, for any or no reason ... the employer may act peremptorily, arbitrarily, or inconsistently, without providing specific protections such as prior warning, fair procedures, objective evaluation, or preferential reassignment ... The mere existence of an employment relationship affords no expectation, protectable by law, that employment will continue, or will end only on certain conditions, unless the parties have actually adopted such terms."
  - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
    Yes, but an employee can still file a wrongful termination lawsuit if they believe that the "no reason" termination was bullshit and that they were actually fired for an illegal reason. Like, if someone decides to come out of the closet on social media and their co-workers find out and their boss hears about it and fires themthe next day but claims that it's a "no reason" termination, it would certainly raise suspicion that they were actually being fired for being gay and they might win a wrongful termination lawsuit, even in an at-will employment state.
    - tjalfi 9y ago
      Sexual orientation is a protected class in California[0]. [0] http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment-discrimination-31690.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment...
cjbprime 9y ago
Any reason that isn't prevented by labor protection laws, examples: sexism, racism, ageism, whistleblowing retaliation.
timv 9y ago
> can't the company fire them at any time with no reason? One of the employees is based out of Sydney, so No, California at-will employment law doesn't apply. It would be interesting to see what grounds they are using to fire him. Based on previous experiences with other companies, I found that it's not unusual for executives in one country to think that the employment law in their jurisdiction is universal and just assume they can apply it to employees in other countries.
- Animats 9y ago
  California labor code section 201 (a): "If an employer discharges an employee, the wages earned and unpaid at the time of discharge are due and payable immediately." Firing someone in California requires that they be paid in full right then and there. This includes payment for accrued vacation time, comp time, etc. Were these employees paid off properly?
  - dekhn 9y ago
    Err, no. Payable immediately doesn't mean somebody has to hand you a wad of cash.
    - Animats 9y ago
      In California, it does.[1] California has the strictest law in the US on this. [1] http://www.turleylawfirm.com/blog/final-paycheck-laws-for-terminated-employees-in-california.cfm http://www.turleylawfirm.com/blog/final-paycheck-laws-for-te...
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
      - dekhn 9y ago
        Fair enough. Salesforce has enough money that they can afford to pay the minor penalty for violating this.
    - 9y ago

wcummings 9y ago

Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc..

ucaetano 9y ago
> Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc.. Actually, they can (with a few exceptions). California is at-will employment: "At-will employment is a term used in U.S. labor law for contractual relationships in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning." Or, as the Supreme Court of California explains: "[A]n employer may terminate its employees at will, for any or no reason ... the employer may act peremptorily, arbitrarily, or inconsistently, without providing specific protections such as prior warning, fair procedures, objective evaluation, or preferential reassignment ... The mere existence of an employment relationship affords no expectation, protectable by law, that employment will continue, or will end only on certain conditions, unless the parties have actually adopted such terms."
- Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
  Yes, but an employee can still file a wrongful termination lawsuit if they believe that the "no reason" termination was bullshit and that they were actually fired for an illegal reason. Like, if someone decides to come out of the closet on social media and their co-workers find out and their boss hears about it and fires themthe next day but claims that it's a "no reason" termination, it would certainly raise suspicion that they were actually being fired for being gay and they might win a wrongful termination lawsuit, even in an at-will employment state.
  - tjalfi 9y ago
    Sexual orientation is a protected class in California[0]. [0] http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment-discrimination-31690.html http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-employment...

cjbprime 9y ago

Any reason that isn't prevented by labor protection laws, examples: sexism, racism, ageism, whistleblowing retaliation.

timv 9y ago

> can't the company fire them at any time with no reason? One of the employees is based out of Sydney, so No, California at-will employment law doesn't apply. It would be interesting to see what grounds they are using to fire him. Based on previous experiences with other companies, I found that it's not unusual for executives in one country to think that the employment law in their jurisdiction is universal and just assume they can apply it to employees in other countries.

Animats 9y ago
California labor code section 201 (a): "If an employer discharges an employee, the wages earned and unpaid at the time of discharge are due and payable immediately." Firing someone in California requires that they be paid in full right then and there. This includes payment for accrued vacation time, comp time, etc. Were these employees paid off properly?
- dekhn 9y ago
  Err, no. Payable immediately doesn't mean somebody has to hand you a wad of cash.
  - Animats 9y ago
    In California, it does.[1] California has the strictest law in the US on this. [1] http://www.turleylawfirm.com/blog/final-paycheck-laws-for-terminated-employees-in-california.cfm http://www.turleylawfirm.com/blog/final-paycheck-laws-for-te...
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - dekhn 9y ago
      Fair enough. Salesforce has enough money that they can afford to pay the minor penalty for violating this.
  - 9y ago