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Apparently the fired employees have enough of a case that the EFF agreed to represent them. Given that SF employees have presented at many conferences in the p

Apparently the fired employees have enough of a case that the EFF agreed to represent them. Given that SF employees have presented at many conferences in the past I don't see that getting official approval for the presentation is that strange. I agree that we need more details, but can you really say that this situation has not played out many times before?

rsj_hn 9y ago
>Given that SF employees have presented at many conferences in the past I don't see that getting official approval for the presentation is that strange. It's not strange at all. So dig up some of those slide decks of past SF talks and compare them to what was presented in the meatpistol talk. Then you can decide for yourself whether you think this talk was approved or not -- it would be the same PR department approving all the talks, right?. In any case, the facts may come out in the representation, as you suggest.
- ghaff 9y ago
  I have no idea about SF's processes specifically but it's certainly not universal practice to have conference presentations signed off by PR or anyone else within an organization. Doesn't mean there can't be repercussions if you say something inappropriate or disclose information you shouldn't, but not all companies require signoff from presentations.
  - xorbyte 9y ago
    Any comparatively large corporation very likely has a release process for these sorts of things where a bunch of groups (like PR, maybe Legal etc) would take a look. Releasing company IP as open source outside of such a process would be a gross violation of any number of non-disclosure agreements between employer and employee.
arcticfox 9y ago
I'm a little confused what their case is, can't the company fire them at any time with no reason? I don't really know much about employment law, but that was my understanding. Like if they went on stage and flopped, they could get fired. Similarly maybe they were too good. Or the boss was having a bad day.
- wcummings 9y ago
  Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc..
  - ucaetano 9y ago
    > Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc.. Actually, they can (with a few exceptions). California is at-will employment: "At-will employment is a term used in U.S. labor law for contractual relationships in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning." Or, as the Supreme Court of California explains: "[A]n employer may terminate its employees at will, for any or no reason ... the employer may act peremptorily, arbitrarily, or inconsistently, without providing specific protections such as prior warning, fair procedures, objective evaluation, or preferential reassignment ... The mere existence of an employment relationship affords no expectation, protectable by law, that employment will continue, or will end only on certain conditions, unless the parties have actually adopted such terms."
    - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
      Yes, but an employee can still file a wrongful termination lawsuit if they believe that the "no reason" termination was bullshit and that they were actually fired for an illegal reason. Like, if someone decides to come out of the closet on social media and their co-workers find out and their boss hears about it and fires themthe next day but claims that it's a "no reason" termination, it would certainly raise suspicion that they were actually being fired for being gay and they might win a wrongful termination lawsuit, even in an at-will employment state.
duxup 9y ago
Help me out here. What is EFF's involvement in this? Generally I can kinda see how the EFF would be interested in the topic of their presentation, but effectively this is an employee and employer legal issue now.

rsj_hn 9y ago

>Given that SF employees have presented at many conferences in the past I don't see that getting official approval for the presentation is that strange. It's not strange at all. So dig up some of those slide decks of past SF talks and compare them to what was presented in the meatpistol talk. Then you can decide for yourself whether you think this talk was approved or not -- it would be the same PR department approving all the talks, right?. In any case, the facts may come out in the representation, as you suggest.

ghaff 9y ago
I have no idea about SF's processes specifically but it's certainly not universal practice to have conference presentations signed off by PR or anyone else within an organization. Doesn't mean there can't be repercussions if you say something inappropriate or disclose information you shouldn't, but not all companies require signoff from presentations.
- xorbyte 9y ago
  Any comparatively large corporation very likely has a release process for these sorts of things where a bunch of groups (like PR, maybe Legal etc) would take a look. Releasing company IP as open source outside of such a process would be a gross violation of any number of non-disclosure agreements between employer and employee.

arcticfox 9y ago

I'm a little confused what their case is, can't the company fire them at any time with no reason? I don't really know much about employment law, but that was my understanding. Like if they went on stage and flopped, they could get fired. Similarly maybe they were too good. Or the boss was having a bad day.

wcummings 9y ago
Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc..
- ucaetano 9y ago
  > Not any reason, wrongful termination lawsuits happen, and companies usually have processes for firing people, reviews to document performance etc.. Actually, they can (with a few exceptions). California is at-will employment: "At-will employment is a term used in U.S. labor law for contractual relationships in which an employee can be dismissed by an employer for any reason (that is, without having to establish "just cause" for termination), and without warning." Or, as the Supreme Court of California explains: "[A]n employer may terminate its employees at will, for any or no reason ... the employer may act peremptorily, arbitrarily, or inconsistently, without providing specific protections such as prior warning, fair procedures, objective evaluation, or preferential reassignment ... The mere existence of an employment relationship affords no expectation, protectable by law, that employment will continue, or will end only on certain conditions, unless the parties have actually adopted such terms."
  - Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
    Yes, but an employee can still file a wrongful termination lawsuit if they believe that the "no reason" termination was bullshit and that they were actually fired for an illegal reason. Like, if someone decides to come out of the closet on social media and their co-workers find out and their boss hears about it and fires themthe next day but claims that it's a "no reason" termination, it would certainly raise suspicion that they were actually being fired for being gay and they might win a wrongful termination lawsuit, even in an at-will employment state.

duxup 9y ago

Help me out here. What is EFF's involvement in this? Generally I can kinda see how the EFF would be interested in the topic of their presentation, but effectively this is an employee and employer legal issue now.