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Are you sure retiring early leads to a long life expectancy? I would expect the opposite. My father still works and he is very healthy for an 88 year old. An

Are you sure retiring early leads to a long life expectancy? I would expect the opposite. My father still works and he is very healthy for an 88 year old. Anecdote is not data, but people in my family seem to stay healthy by working or staying very active. I think part of the point is to find a avocation that is not stressful, you enjoy, and can do a long time. That may be worth more than money.

graphitezepp 9y ago
I suspect retirement and age expectancy is a correlation NOT causation type of deal. People who have the privilege of affording to retire early are more likely to be educated and chose a healthy lifestyle, thus living longer.
buserror 9y ago
I didn't say inactive, I just said retired. I agree than people who 'stop' will tend to die of boredom. I've got a prime example in my family at the moment. I've also got the other side of the coin where that chap is nearly 90, is on several councils, charities and never seem to sit around for 2 minutes. He's as strong as an ox!
- EADGBE 9y ago
  Agreed about dying of boredom. The brain needs stimulation. I've seen shut-ins go in a downward spiral quickly, while 98-year-old gardeners die peacefully in their sleep on an otherwise normal, active day.
kartan 9y ago
> My father still works and he is very healthy for an 88 year old. This is usually related to the kind of job you are doing. My mother was cleaning schools and that is a killer for the back. Being retired, she takes long walks and keeps herself active and healthy. But when I was studying I saw quite old teachers still active, and happy. But that's a different kind of job with different effects on your health. > I think part of the point is to find a [a]vocation that is not stressful, you enjoy, and can do a long time. I agree. If you are lucky enough to get a job that fulfills you, then continuing working can be a good thing. That's why we can't just delay retirement age, but we need to take into account personal circumstances. A not stressful and enjoyable work also helps you to keep your good health for longer, so you get in better shape to old age.
- georgeecollins 9y ago
  That is a great point. Not every job can be extended late into life. But like your mother, I think you have to stay active and find something that challenges you.
- pm90 9y ago
  Great point. I wonder, if everyone should, in their middle ages, really think this through. And perhaps make a career change if their work requires something they wouldn't be comfortable doing later in life. One of the best professions I can think of retiring in is probably academia... I've worked/studied/socialized with professors very much older than me, and they seem to continue to enjoy teaching/talking to students despite their age.
  - eksemplar 9y ago
    I sometimes wonder if a lot of the freshly educated programmers I hire really know what they are in for. In 25 years they'll still have 25-30 years of work left in their lives, and by then most of them won't have received any significant reschooling, and they will still be competing in a tech world, where 10 years ago there wasn't a thing called smartphones. Some of them will do just fine. I know a lot of old programmers, but I also know a lot of former older IT employees who are spending their 60ies in the unemployment lines.
    - aianus 9y ago
      > In 25 years they'll still have 25-30 years of work left in their lives If you don't care about having a wife or kids you can easily retire forever after 10-15 years of work in SV or NYC.
      - sotojuan 9y ago
        The amount of people who will actually do this and go through it is so tiny that this comment is worthless. Give and take a few years (and perhaps not in SF/NYC), you could say this about any decent paying job.
EADGBE 9y ago
The general consensus is that you're correct. Mostly dealing with octogenarians+ whom I know; the more active you are (more so socially, as well as physically) the better off you are at living a long and healthy life. Having a routine like a job sets also seems to help human psyche. Your point about vocation that is not stressful, enjoyable, and is lasting satisfies all these requirements. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3563954/Retirement-really-kill-Researchers-work-past-65-live-longer.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3563954/Retirement... http://fortune.com/2016/05/03/retirement-living-longer/ http://fortune.com/2016/05/03/retirement-living-longer/ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-earlier-retirement-retire-death-risk-data-research-jobs https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-e... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-earlier-retirement-retire-death-risk-data-research-jobs https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-e... https://www.wsj.com/articles/retiring-after-65-may-help-people-live-longer-1462202016 https://www.wsj.com/articles/retiring-after-65-may-help-peop... That's from both sides of the pond.
babuskov 9y ago
It seems like a positive feedback loop to me. You would expect healthy people to be able and willing to keep working instead of retiring. Esp. if their work involves some physical activity it helps keeping them healthy.
denom 9y ago
Economics is not a monolith of wages and taxes. In a family there are many householding activities where retirees can contribute to the economic health of society. Retirement should be a focus for these types of activities. Things like tending a small garden, or playing with grandchildren.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  At least in the US, this is going to require a shift in both the workplace and the home. My father is 65, my mother in law is 59, and my father in law is late 50s (my mother passed away recently at 59). All three of them must still work full time because they can't afford to retire, preventing them from helping with our 1 year old (causing us to have a limited support system, which I supplement with a part time nanny). But heh, GDP!
  - madengr 9y ago
    Optimum age for taking Medicare and SS also play a factor. Even if I had enough money in my 401K to retire at 45, medical insurance would eat it up. Need to wait to get on Medicare.
    - toomuchtodo 9y ago
      Agreed. My wife and I plan on moving to Canada or Europe before preparing for retirement so we don't have to work into our 60s for healthcare.
      - kaybe 9y ago
        Please come early enough that you're not just a burden on the system and pay into it long enough. Seriously.
        toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Of course. Always give more than you take.
eksemplar 9y ago
Working with your mind in a stress free environment will make you old. Mining coal, crawling around in asbestos, being pushed by a never ending competition or sitting still doing nothing won't. So there are upsides and down sides to work/retirement thing. The best you can do is academia or a retirement spent learning new things.
gambiting 9y ago
Yeah, again, anecdota is not data, but I knew a few people who fully retired after just 15 years of work(in Poland certain professions are allowed to retire that quickly with full benefits, that includes policemen,firefighters and miners) and they all died before reaching 60, having only worked until the age of 33-35.
gozur88 9y ago
This may just be selection bias. Had your father died at age 70, you'd be thinking the reason was he didn't retire early enough. My dad retired at 55 as his health began to decline. He's still alive at 78, and there's no way he would have lived this long if he didn't retire when he did.
ColanR 9y ago
I've actually heard the opposite - that people can tend to die within a year of retirement, generally because they don't have anything purposeful left to do.
user5994461 9y ago
I'd assume the increased life expectancy is more about the free healthcare than the earlier retirement. Free treatment for everything. That does help a lot when you get old, starting with all the minor problems happening with an aging body, and concluding with the last few years where you could literally be kept alive despite a critical condition requiring constant care, all paid in full by the tax payer.

graphitezepp 9y ago

I suspect retirement and age expectancy is a correlation NOT causation type of deal. People who have the privilege of affording to retire early are more likely to be educated and chose a healthy lifestyle, thus living longer.

buserror 9y ago

I didn't say inactive, I just said retired. I agree than people who 'stop' will tend to die of boredom. I've got a prime example in my family at the moment. I've also got the other side of the coin where that chap is nearly 90, is on several councils, charities and never seem to sit around for 2 minutes. He's as strong as an ox!

EADGBE 9y ago
Agreed about dying of boredom. The brain needs stimulation. I've seen shut-ins go in a downward spiral quickly, while 98-year-old gardeners die peacefully in their sleep on an otherwise normal, active day.

kartan 9y ago

> My father still works and he is very healthy for an 88 year old. This is usually related to the kind of job you are doing. My mother was cleaning schools and that is a killer for the back. Being retired, she takes long walks and keeps herself active and healthy. But when I was studying I saw quite old teachers still active, and happy. But that's a different kind of job with different effects on your health. > I think part of the point is to find a [a]vocation that is not stressful, you enjoy, and can do a long time. I agree. If you are lucky enough to get a job that fulfills you, then continuing working can be a good thing. That's why we can't just delay retirement age, but we need to take into account personal circumstances. A not stressful and enjoyable work also helps you to keep your good health for longer, so you get in better shape to old age.

georgeecollins 9y ago
That is a great point. Not every job can be extended late into life. But like your mother, I think you have to stay active and find something that challenges you.
pm90 9y ago
Great point. I wonder, if everyone should, in their middle ages, really think this through. And perhaps make a career change if their work requires something they wouldn't be comfortable doing later in life. One of the best professions I can think of retiring in is probably academia... I've worked/studied/socialized with professors very much older than me, and they seem to continue to enjoy teaching/talking to students despite their age.
- eksemplar 9y ago
  I sometimes wonder if a lot of the freshly educated programmers I hire really know what they are in for. In 25 years they'll still have 25-30 years of work left in their lives, and by then most of them won't have received any significant reschooling, and they will still be competing in a tech world, where 10 years ago there wasn't a thing called smartphones. Some of them will do just fine. I know a lot of old programmers, but I also know a lot of former older IT employees who are spending their 60ies in the unemployment lines.
  - aianus 9y ago
    > In 25 years they'll still have 25-30 years of work left in their lives If you don't care about having a wife or kids you can easily retire forever after 10-15 years of work in SV or NYC.
    - sotojuan 9y ago
      The amount of people who will actually do this and go through it is so tiny that this comment is worthless. Give and take a few years (and perhaps not in SF/NYC), you could say this about any decent paying job.

EADGBE 9y ago

The general consensus is that you're correct. Mostly dealing with octogenarians+ whom I know; the more active you are (more so socially, as well as physically) the better off you are at living a long and healthy life. Having a routine like a job sets also seems to help human psyche. Your point about vocation that is not stressful, enjoyable, and is lasting satisfies all these requirements. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3563954/Retirement-really-kill-Researchers-work-past-65-live-longer.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3563954/Retirement... http://fortune.com/2016/05/03/retirement-living-longer/ http://fortune.com/2016/05/03/retirement-living-longer/ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-earlier-retirement-retire-death-risk-data-research-jobs https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-e... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-earlier-retirement-retire-death-risk-data-research-jobs https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/may/02/early-e... https://www.wsj.com/articles/retiring-after-65-may-help-people-live-longer-1462202016 https://www.wsj.com/articles/retiring-after-65-may-help-peop... That's from both sides of the pond.

babuskov 9y ago

It seems like a positive feedback loop to me. You would expect healthy people to be able and willing to keep working instead of retiring. Esp. if their work involves some physical activity it helps keeping them healthy.

denom 9y ago

Economics is not a monolith of wages and taxes. In a family there are many householding activities where retirees can contribute to the economic health of society. Retirement should be a focus for these types of activities. Things like tending a small garden, or playing with grandchildren.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
At least in the US, this is going to require a shift in both the workplace and the home. My father is 65, my mother in law is 59, and my father in law is late 50s (my mother passed away recently at 59). All three of them must still work full time because they can't afford to retire, preventing them from helping with our 1 year old (causing us to have a limited support system, which I supplement with a part time nanny). But heh, GDP!
- madengr 9y ago
  Optimum age for taking Medicare and SS also play a factor. Even if I had enough money in my 401K to retire at 45, medical insurance would eat it up. Need to wait to get on Medicare.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Agreed. My wife and I plan on moving to Canada or Europe before preparing for retirement so we don't have to work into our 60s for healthcare.
    - kaybe 9y ago
      Please come early enough that you're not just a burden on the system and pay into it long enough. Seriously.
      - toomuchtodo 9y ago
        Of course. Always give more than you take.

eksemplar 9y ago

Working with your mind in a stress free environment will make you old. Mining coal, crawling around in asbestos, being pushed by a never ending competition or sitting still doing nothing won't. So there are upsides and down sides to work/retirement thing. The best you can do is academia or a retirement spent learning new things.

gambiting 9y ago

Yeah, again, anecdota is not data, but I knew a few people who fully retired after just 15 years of work(in Poland certain professions are allowed to retire that quickly with full benefits, that includes policemen,firefighters and miners) and they all died before reaching 60, having only worked until the age of 33-35.

gozur88 9y ago

This may just be selection bias. Had your father died at age 70, you'd be thinking the reason was he didn't retire early enough. My dad retired at 55 as his health began to decline. He's still alive at 78, and there's no way he would have lived this long if he didn't retire when he did.

ColanR 9y ago

I've actually heard the opposite - that people can tend to die within a year of retirement, generally because they don't have anything purposeful left to do.

user5994461 9y ago

I'd assume the increased life expectancy is more about the free healthcare than the earlier retirement. Free treatment for everything. That does help a lot when you get old, starting with all the minor problems happening with an aging body, and concluding with the last few years where you could literally be kept alive despite a critical condition requiring constant care, all paid in full by the tax payer.