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For the life of me I still can't figure out what he wrote that was so offensive. I see people attacking him in general terms, calling him a bigot/sexist/etc, b

For the life of me I still can't figure out what he wrote that was so offensive. I see people attacking him in general terms, calling him a bigot/sexist/etc, but they never mention anything specific he wrote. Can anyone point to anything specific that is upsetting so many people?

danielvf 9y ago
The statement by Google's CEO categorizes some specific sections of the the article into the "okay" bin, and some sections into the "fireable" bin. That's about as good as a start as you are likely to get. https://www.blog.google/topics/diversity/note-employees-ceo-sundar-pichai/ https://www.blog.google/topics/diversity/note-employees-ceo-...
- matt_wulfeck 9y ago
  > To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK I don't know, I read the article and it seem to me his point was pretty clear that men and women have biological differences that make them drawn to different types of work, and to find enjoyment in different things. I actually found his point in saying we should increase cooperative work (such as pair programming) to make it more desirable rather refreshing. I also am drawn to people and would find more enjoyment in more cooperative work.
  - aaomidi 9y ago
    I'm going to get downvoted to hell by saying this but... He also implied that women who get into google are there because the bar is lowered. This implication means when he sees a female coworker, he automatically assumes they're less "effective" than a male co-worker and they're only there because the standards were lowered for them. Essentially this makes the workplace hostile. If you're a woman, you know that this guy thinks "less" of you because of the way you were born. He basically put into words his implicit and explicit biases towards women.
zaqokm321 9y ago
> I see people attacking him in general terms, calling him a bigot/sexist/etc, but they never mention anything specific he wrote. You don't need to have any specific valid reason to be offended unfortunately. > Can anyone point to anything specific that is upsetting so many people? Also being offended is quite contagious also.
ilaksh 9y ago
The document is the definition of sexism and a perfect example of why we still need diversity laws and programs. Despite the attempts to provide disclaimers, many of the comments he wrote were explicitly sexist. For example the sections "Personality differences" and "Men's higher drive for status". Sexism means prejudice related to gender. Prejudice means pre-judging a group. For example the belief that women do not have as high as drive for status can (and previously has been) used as an excuse for promoting men instead of women or a particular man instead of a particular woman. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... And other comments. In the context of discussion of things like hiring, promotion and pay, acting on the beliefs he stated has been outlawed (even though unfortunately these biases are still very prevalent). If they do not fire him, the document will be used as evidence in discriminatory lawsuits. These sexist beliefs are still just as popular as ageist and racist beliefs. Many may be able to find scientific studies that back up their prejudice. There are usually studies backing up just about any view, just due to the nature of science. Regardless of how well accepted or not these studies are, the laws have already been made years before. So if you want these types of prejudicial beliefs to be openly consulted in hiring, promotion, etc. decisions in companies, those laws will need to be changed.
- visarga 9y ago
  > Prejudice means pre-judging a group. Would it be a prejudice to say women on average are less tall than men? Where do you draw the line between "pre-judgement" and "statistics" (can we call it post-judgement?). Height is OK but work drive is not OK to post-judge?
  - ilaksh 9y ago
    In this context it's clearly a prejudicial belief that he is promoting that can have negative consequences for women. Go ahead and bury my comments. Judges will eventually explain the laws to you people.
    - baumy 9y ago

danielvf 9y ago

The statement by Google's CEO categorizes some specific sections of the the article into the "okay" bin, and some sections into the "fireable" bin. That's about as good as a start as you are likely to get. https://www.blog.google/topics/diversity/note-employees-ceo-sundar-pichai/ https://www.blog.google/topics/diversity/note-employees-ceo-...

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
> To suggest a group of our colleagues have traits that make them less biologically suited to that work is offensive and not OK I don't know, I read the article and it seem to me his point was pretty clear that men and women have biological differences that make them drawn to different types of work, and to find enjoyment in different things. I actually found his point in saying we should increase cooperative work (such as pair programming) to make it more desirable rather refreshing. I also am drawn to people and would find more enjoyment in more cooperative work.
- aaomidi 9y ago
  I'm going to get downvoted to hell by saying this but... He also implied that women who get into google are there because the bar is lowered. This implication means when he sees a female coworker, he automatically assumes they're less "effective" than a male co-worker and they're only there because the standards were lowered for them. Essentially this makes the workplace hostile. If you're a woman, you know that this guy thinks "less" of you because of the way you were born. He basically put into words his implicit and explicit biases towards women.

zaqokm321 9y ago

> I see people attacking him in general terms, calling him a bigot/sexist/etc, but they never mention anything specific he wrote. You don't need to have any specific valid reason to be offended unfortunately. > Can anyone point to anything specific that is upsetting so many people? Also being offended is quite contagious also.

ilaksh 9y ago

The document is the definition of sexism and a perfect example of why we still need diversity laws and programs. Despite the attempts to provide disclaimers, many of the comments he wrote were explicitly sexist. For example the sections "Personality differences" and "Men's higher drive for status". Sexism means prejudice related to gender. Prejudice means pre-judging a group. For example the belief that women do not have as high as drive for status can (and previously has been) used as an excuse for promoting men instead of women or a particular man instead of a particular woman. https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-Ideological-Echo-Chamber.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I... And other comments. In the context of discussion of things like hiring, promotion and pay, acting on the beliefs he stated has been outlawed (even though unfortunately these biases are still very prevalent). If they do not fire him, the document will be used as evidence in discriminatory lawsuits. These sexist beliefs are still just as popular as ageist and racist beliefs. Many may be able to find scientific studies that back up their prejudice. There are usually studies backing up just about any view, just due to the nature of science. Regardless of how well accepted or not these studies are, the laws have already been made years before. So if you want these types of prejudicial beliefs to be openly consulted in hiring, promotion, etc. decisions in companies, those laws will need to be changed.

visarga 9y ago
> Prejudice means pre-judging a group. Would it be a prejudice to say women on average are less tall than men? Where do you draw the line between "pre-judgement" and "statistics" (can we call it post-judgement?). Height is OK but work drive is not OK to post-judge?
- ilaksh 9y ago
  In this context it's clearly a prejudicial belief that he is promoting that can have negative consequences for women. Go ahead and bury my comments. Judges will eventually explain the laws to you people.
  - baumy 9y ago