6 ms·
It's rare to also see these articles point out the immense pay discrepancy that can occur. Companies seem to want loyalty but they don't want to give it. This
by rarec 9y ago
It's rare to also see these articles point out the immense pay discrepancy that can occur.
Companies seem to want loyalty but they don't want to give it. This leads to the merc approach of just selling to the highest bidder.
- fweespeech 9y agoTo be honest (at least in my experience) if you are really worth $X as a developer, you can generally get your current employer to give you $X if you are proactive about it. Quitting generally has more to do with: A) "You (the employer) Waited Until The Exit Interview To Ask What’s Wrong" B) "You (the employee) Waited Until The Exit Interview To Convey What's Wrong" Leaving my last job, I told them what I wanted 1-2 years before I actually left (for more money, but that wasn't the primary cause). The CEO basically told me in the exit interview if it was about money, he'd give me another 30% to get me to stay (and they had countered with that before, back when I told them what I needed to stay long term). Money isn't necessarily the cause. Its the lack of willingness to communicate and meet the other person's needs.
- spraak 9y agoI dunno. I work for a company based in the UK, which seems to have much lower pay than the US. I am paid the same as other senior developers at the company, yet my salary by comparison to US standards is quite low ($70k and no benefits since I'm technically a contractor). Otherwise the company is really amazing, so I'm torn.
- fweespeech 9y agoExpecting countries to match salaries an ocean apart is...unwise. Countries have very different economic situations.
- spraak 9y agoI understand that, but it still hurts.
- Consultant32452 9y agoStop comparing your salary to the US and start comparing it to India. You can be certain that's what your employer is comparing it to. And as soon as they can get the the same quality of work out of India you'll get the boot.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- preid24 9y agoLondon is its own bubble. The part of the UK I'm in, £35k is the going rate for a senior software developer.
- fweespeech 9y agoI'm really sorry. :\ That is absurd. You should be able to find remote work that pays £50k+ relatively easily. Although the whole Brexit thing may make that harder. :\ To me, £70k was more a geographic / economic area issue. Under $50k/£50k you just have to get out.
- mgkimsal 9y agoIf you are actually in the UK, you have some amazing benefits that US-based folks don't get in the form of healthcare. I know, yes, technically, you're paying for it in taxes, but it's there for you all the time, regardless of your employment status or ability to pay for an insurance policy.
- Leon 9y agoIn addition to more vacation days, maternity leave, etc
- flukus 9y agoContractors don't get those. In theory they get paid higher as compensation for not getting them, in practice they generally get the same money with less benefits.
- spraak 9y agoSorry it wasn't clear, I'm actually in the US.
- morgante 9y ago> If you are actually in the UK, you have some amazing benefits that US-based folks don't get in the form of healthcare. So? That's pretty irrelevant since any good developer job in the US comes with excellent health coverage.
- Tangurena2 9y agoThe healthcare that comes with any good developer job is the same healthcare that management thinks is good enough for their employees. It is rarely the case that it is good by objective standards.
- mgkimsal 9y agoAnd when you lose your job... you lose access to that "excellent health coverage". Health insurance being so culturally tied to "employment" is ... very problematic.
- orf 9y agoDo you work in London or Cambridge? If so, that's a pretty low salary for a senior developer. In my experience that's mid level range, you're looking at more 70+k ($90k) for senior. That's excluding finance of course, where salaries are astronomical.
- richardknop 9y agoThis. For highly talented developer it is definitely possible to make 6 digit salary in London at least, not sure about Cambridge.
- spraak 9y agoSorry, I'm actually in the US. I'm surprised to hear that that's a low salary for the UK, as well.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- user5994461 9y agoLondon only, not to confuse with the UK. Good luck finding a senior developer for £70k over there.
- scottLobster 9y agoHow would that work? For the company to make a profit, employees by definition have to produce more value than they consume.
- fweespeech 9y ago> How would that work? For the company to make a profit, employees by definition have to produce more value than they consume. Most people aren't primarily motivated by money once they are making a full salary as a developer. PTO, Work/Life Balance, and Geography are more relevant to my life choices than how much I'm paid (to a point, certain areas I've noticed don't pay enough). https://ycharts.com/companies/GOOG/profit_margin https://ycharts.com/companies/GOOG/profit_margin Alphabet was running a 13.55% margin for its latest quarter. https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/profit_margin Walmart was at a 2.59% profit margin for its latest quarter. Which of these companies do you think are providing better PTO, Work/Life Balance, etc.? The reality is intangibles mean more to developers than another 10% salary bump once they are making $150k.
- morgante 9y agoSome companies have a hard limit on developer salaries. Many will never pay a developer over $200k, even if the developer is that good. This can come from two reasons: 1. The company doesn't have sufficiently valuable projects to capture the developer's potential. There are a lot of companies which simply don't need very senior developers and hence cannot match the price for a senior developer on the open market. 2. The company perceives developers as second-class relative to management or their core business leaders. Thus, they can never have developers paid more than those core people. These companies see a very consistent talent pool of mediocre developers (who have been mediocre for a long time) and junior developers who come in and leave after 1-2 years once they realize they can get more elsewhere.
- fweespeech 9y agoThere is no real reason to pay developers (or anyone really) over $200k to be perfectly honest. At $200k/year, if you are valuing money over intangibles you are making terrible life choices imho. Work less, get out and do fun things more.
- throwaway2016a 9y agoIn my experience while a developer will say it's not about the money, if the gap is big enough it is disrespectful to the developer and they will (easily) find employment elsewhere. Often time's it's not actually about the money. But the low pay (relatively) is a signal to the developer of how much / little you value them.
- eropple 9y agoThis is, historically, where I was at. Consistently delivering high-quality stuff that makes my fellow devs able to do their jobs faster and better, and while in the top quartile of salaries, it wasn't remotely reflective of the value being generated. That's why I went into consulting in the first place.
- vacri 9y agoRunning your own (successful) business is always going to net you more money than being salaried. It's the payoff for taking the risk. A company pays a salary based on how hard it is to replace you, not your value generation, whereas your own company nets you $all_the_things.
- JetSpiegel 9y agoThe risk is $all_the_things <= 0, which is pretty common.
- HeroOfAges 9y agoSee you space cowboy... Sorry, couldn't help myself.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago> In my experience while a developer will say it's not about the money The people that say this simply rationalize it differently than people willing to say it is about the money. (but yes, there is a group where it really isn't about money) There is a large segment of the population that feels a stigma for admitting monetary motivation, so if its not "ALL" about the money, where all possible factors are money, they will say it isn't. People that don't feel a stigma around admitting monetary motivation will reveal that money is a factor if it is at least 1 of the factors. It will be misinterpreted by the other population as being only about the money, whether it is or isn't. It is just a form of conditioning that will distort any survey for now.
- TwelveNights 9y agoA shame too because money can be one of the most powerful factors for retention. Someone who enjoys a company could still simply leave due to better prospects elsewhere.