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It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. Being close to Russian is a good indicator on how much you are willing to go t

by kartan 9y ago

It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. Being close to Russian is a good indicator on how much you are willing to go to war. So I agree with other comments, probably people that feels threatened read the question as "I'm willing to protect my country from an outside attacker". While people in "safer" places read it as "I'm willing to go to war with another country for some strategic/economic interest". (Judging by my own ethics, I guess)

dom0 9y ago
> It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. I don't think its that simple. The question is "willing to fight a war". German people have learned that when Germany goes to war it is usually not for the best of the country. On the other hand, Germany had "the threat" next door for 40+ years and the willingness to defend was very high. So I think when you ask Germans this question, they will consider the question as if it were "Are you willing to fight an attack war?", not "... to defend your country". Finland is probably exactly the other way around. It should also be considered that central Europe has been a very stable place for some time, so somewhat similar reasons will probably apply to other countries as well; wars are not fought in the home countries of central Europeans any more; wars are in the east or south, so when a European country today starts a war, it's difficult to not consider it an attack war along at least one dimension. Needless to say, "the aggressor in an attack war is practically always the bad guy" has pretty much become kind of a European core tenet.
- kochthesecond 9y ago
  I also think they interpret it this way in Finland (can anyone more familiar comment?). Finland has conscription service in their armed forces, where they focus on a defensive war to protect their country. This might pull them towards the defensive interpretation of 'willing to fight a war'.
- toxik 9y ago
  Right, these percentages show essentially the marginalized likelihood of the question's interpretation and its response. That is to say, it is the weighted sum of the probability of wanting to fight an aggressive/defensive war, weighted by the probability of that interpretation. What I found interesting is that Sweden, which has had peace for over 200 years, has a really high percentage.
tobltobs 9y ago
Or maybe the willingness to fight leads to more conflicts?
celticninja 9y ago
I agree, I would answer differently to both questions, defend yes, attack no.
bambax 9y ago
Germany is closer to Russia than France, and yet less "willing" to go to war. Japan with 11% is really amazing, and yet it's near real threats with China and North Korea. It would seem, countries who remember what war is actually like, would rather not fight; that would explain the results of Japan, Germany, France, Spain, the UK. The only exception is Russia, who suffered immensely during WW2 and yet would apparently fight again? Or does it have something to do with age?
- kofejnik 9y ago
  Russian TV has operated in patriotic imperial brainwashing mode for the past 15 years (and their culture in general - for the last 300 years), so no surprise here.
  - vetinari 9y ago
    Russia has been invaded every 80-100 years for the last 1000 years. I have understanding for them, it is already some 75 years since the last one.
    - kofejnik 9y ago
      Russia has waged dozens of aggressive wars during that period, including 2 since 2008
      - vetinari 9y ago
        Yes, sure. The first one was their UN peacekeeping units being attacked[1], and that second one was never proved, the only evidence is evidence by repetition, ala Goering. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Russo-Georgian_War#EU_Independent_Fact_Finding_Mission_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Russo-G...
        kofejnik 9y ago
        oh really, "there were no Russian troops in Crimea, where's your proof", straight from Russian TV. Now tell us that Boeing wasn't shot by the paramilitaries backed, organized, armed and financed by Russia. edit: also, your nickname seems very fitting. You a Stalin fan?
thinkfurther 9y ago
> the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. The most close to the threat is being the threat, so I'm not disagreeing.
nielsole 9y ago
You might think of Latvia as a counter argument (41%) but keep in mind that the threat is Russia and only 62% of the population is Latvian. It would be nice to know if they narrowed down what "their" country is (Russia or Latvia). Just because you live in a country doesn't mean you identify with it as "your" country. Assuming that Russians all said no (assuming Latvia was meant) this makes 66% of the Latvians willing to go to war. This is far closer in line with other countries in close proximity to Russia. For comparison: Ukraine has 77% Ukrainians Finland has 89% Fins I couldn't find ethnic information by age group or how the question was exactly posed and who exactly was interviewed. Depending on each factor the results of this study might be heavily skewed for Latvia.
- golergka 9y ago
  In the current Ukranian-Russian conflict, there are a lot of ethnic Russians, speaking Russian, fighting on Ukranian side. While there are plenty of traditional ethnical and cultural conflicts around the world which had the chance to turn violent, the relationship between russian and ukranian people was never even close to this, and it's not the basis for the current conflict.
- yeahforsureman 9y ago
  For all countries, you seem to be quoting percentages based on (primary) language, not nationality or self-identified ethnicity. Just curious, do you feel it's impossible for a native Russian speaker living in Latvia to identify as Latvian, perhaps both Latvian and Russian? The number you present for Finland is highly misleading, by the way. We have around 6 % of Swedish-speaking Finns but they almost all speak Finnish, have very deep roots in Finland and certainly identify as Finns just as much as the rest of us -- and definitely not as Swedes. Swedish is even the second official language. As for the rest, I'm sure most of the citizens growing up in an Estonian, Russian, Somali etc. speaking household identify as Finns, too.

by kartan 9y ago

dom0 9y ago

> It looks like the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. I don't think its that simple. The question is "willing to fight a war". German people have learned that when Germany goes to war it is usually not for the best of the country. On the other hand, Germany had "the threat" next door for 40+ years and the willingness to defend was very high. So I think when you ask Germans this question, they will consider the question as if it were "Are you willing to fight an attack war?", not "... to defend your country". Finland is probably exactly the other way around. It should also be considered that central Europe has been a very stable place for some time, so somewhat similar reasons will probably apply to other countries as well; wars are not fought in the home countries of central Europeans any more; wars are in the east or south, so when a European country today starts a war, it's difficult to not consider it an attack war along at least one dimension. Needless to say, "the aggressor in an attack war is practically always the bad guy" has pretty much become kind of a European core tenet.

kochthesecond 9y ago
I also think they interpret it this way in Finland (can anyone more familiar comment?). Finland has conscription service in their armed forces, where they focus on a defensive war to protect their country. This might pull them towards the defensive interpretation of 'willing to fight a war'.
toxik 9y ago
Right, these percentages show essentially the marginalized likelihood of the question's interpretation and its response. That is to say, it is the weighted sum of the probability of wanting to fight an aggressive/defensive war, weighted by the probability of that interpretation. What I found interesting is that Sweden, which has had peace for over 200 years, has a really high percentage.

tobltobs 9y ago

Or maybe the willingness to fight leads to more conflicts?

celticninja 9y ago

I agree, I would answer differently to both questions, defend yes, attack no.

bambax 9y ago

Germany is closer to Russia than France, and yet less "willing" to go to war. Japan with 11% is really amazing, and yet it's near real threats with China and North Korea. It would seem, countries who remember what war is actually like, would rather not fight; that would explain the results of Japan, Germany, France, Spain, the UK. The only exception is Russia, who suffered immensely during WW2 and yet would apparently fight again? Or does it have something to do with age?

kofejnik 9y ago
Russian TV has operated in patriotic imperial brainwashing mode for the past 15 years (and their culture in general - for the last 300 years), so no surprise here.
- vetinari 9y ago
  Russia has been invaded every 80-100 years for the last 1000 years. I have understanding for them, it is already some 75 years since the last one.
  - kofejnik 9y ago
    Russia has waged dozens of aggressive wars during that period, including 2 since 2008
    - vetinari 9y ago
      Yes, sure. The first one was their UN peacekeeping units being attacked[1], and that second one was never proved, the only evidence is evidence by repetition, ala Goering. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Russo-Georgian_War#EU_Independent_Fact_Finding_Mission_Report https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Russo-G...
      - kofejnik 9y ago
        oh really, "there were no Russian troops in Crimea, where's your proof", straight from Russian TV. Now tell us that Boeing wasn't shot by the paramilitaries backed, organized, armed and financed by Russia. edit: also, your nickname seems very fitting. You a Stalin fan?

thinkfurther 9y ago

> the closer you are to a thread, the most willing are you to fight. The most close to the threat is being the threat, so I'm not disagreeing.

nielsole 9y ago

You might think of Latvia as a counter argument (41%) but keep in mind that the threat is Russia and only 62% of the population is Latvian. It would be nice to know if they narrowed down what "their" country is (Russia or Latvia). Just because you live in a country doesn't mean you identify with it as "your" country. Assuming that Russians all said no (assuming Latvia was meant) this makes 66% of the Latvians willing to go to war. This is far closer in line with other countries in close proximity to Russia. For comparison: Ukraine has 77% Ukrainians Finland has 89% Fins I couldn't find ethnic information by age group or how the question was exactly posed and who exactly was interviewed. Depending on each factor the results of this study might be heavily skewed for Latvia.

golergka 9y ago
In the current Ukranian-Russian conflict, there are a lot of ethnic Russians, speaking Russian, fighting on Ukranian side. While there are plenty of traditional ethnical and cultural conflicts around the world which had the chance to turn violent, the relationship between russian and ukranian people was never even close to this, and it's not the basis for the current conflict.
yeahforsureman 9y ago
For all countries, you seem to be quoting percentages based on (primary) language, not nationality or self-identified ethnicity. Just curious, do you feel it's impossible for a native Russian speaker living in Latvia to identify as Latvian, perhaps both Latvian and Russian? The number you present for Finland is highly misleading, by the way. We have around 6 % of Swedish-speaking Finns but they almost all speak Finnish, have very deep roots in Finland and certainly identify as Finns just as much as the rest of us -- and definitely not as Swedes. Swedish is even the second official language. As for the rest, I'm sure most of the citizens growing up in an Estonian, Russian, Somali etc. speaking household identify as Finns, too.