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Interesting question, but I don't think it is symmetrical because of the power dynamic.

a_puppy 9y ago
You're thinking of a men vs. women power dynamic. But that's not a realistic power dynamic, because neither men nor women act as a block. (For example, 44% of female voters in the 2016 election voted for Trump!) The actual power dynamic here is feminists vs. non-feminists, and at Google right now the feminists have a lot of power--as evidenced by the fact this guy got fired.
- tunesmith 9y ago
  Men and women don't need to act as blocs for an asymmetrical power imbalance to exist.
- Domenic_S 9y ago
  Not trying to be a smartass, I'm only commenting because I was genuinely confused for a moment -- the word is _bloc_ in this context. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bloc https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bloc
  - a_puppy 9y ago
    Thanks! I wasn't sure; I should have looked it up instead of guessing.
josteink 9y ago
He asked about your opinion on a principle, because many people prefer reasoned, principled policy over internet-fueled, hysterical mob rule. Dodging the question by saying you don't find the principle "interesting" when applied on the other end of the argument is effectively admitting that you know the principle is flawed.
- tunesmith 9y ago
  What? I said interesting question. Not a not interesting question. And which principle? The scenario? Yes, I believe the scenario is flawed. Not sure why you are saying admitted. To be clearer, white privilege exists. Male privilege exists. That is a power dynamic over women and minorities, enjoyed by men and non-minorities. To deny those privileges exist increases the privilege. To deny that existing bias exists helps to increase the bias. To admit those privileges exist decreases the privilege. To admit that existing biases exist helps to decrease the bias. So, writing a manifesto (that admits white privilege) does not put white people into greater danger beneath those who enjoy the power dynamic over them (no one). But, writing a manifesto (that denies sexism) does put women into greater danger beneath those who enjoy the power dynamic over them (men). Is that clearer?
  - tomp 9y ago
    > Male privilege exists. That is a power dynamic over women This doesn't necessarily follow, because insofar as male privilege exists, so does female privilege (such as no draft, "women and children first", the "women are wonderful " effect and the fact that women represent the majority of the voting base), so it's really hard to say one sex is more privileged than the other, rather than just privileged differently.
    - tunesmith 9y ago
      Thanks for the comment, I intended it to implicitly come across that I was speaking about employment, where male privilege exceeds female privilege.
      - Inconel 9y ago
        Not to be dismissive of your comment, but I think the topic of privilege deserves more nuance than you are giving it. Privilege doesn't exist as a binary state, where some people enjoy privilege and others do not, we all enjoy some privilege, although obviously of varying degrees. Privilege doesn't stop just at men or women, white or non-white, there are numerous combinations of privilege that need to be taken into account. > where male privilege exceeds female privilege. I'm not sure I can categorically agree with this. While male privilege exists over women, I find it ludicrous to suggest that white women are less privileged overall than black men, despite black men benefiting from male privilege. I think many of the misunderstandings that occur when discussing privilege come about due to using only a few easily categorized traits in defining privileges, rather than a broader set that also include things like socio-economic conditions, health, upbringing, and a variety of personality or physical traits.
LordHumungous 9y ago
It is a little bit symmetrical though because white males are occasionally told they have had everything handed to them and they do find that infuriating to hear.

You're thinking of a men vs. women power dynamic. But that's not a realistic power dynamic, because neither men nor women act as a block. (For example, 44% of female voters in the 2016 election voted for Trump!) The actual power dynamic here is feminists vs. non-feminists, and at Google right now the feminists have a lot of power--as evidenced by the fact this guy got fired.

tunesmith 9y ago
Men and women don't need to act as blocs for an asymmetrical power imbalance to exist.
Domenic_S 9y ago
Not trying to be a smartass, I'm only commenting because I was genuinely confused for a moment -- the word is _bloc_ in this context. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bloc https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bloc
- a_puppy 9y ago
  Thanks! I wasn't sure; I should have looked it up instead of guessing.

josteink 9y ago

He asked about your opinion on a principle, because many people prefer reasoned, principled policy over internet-fueled, hysterical mob rule. Dodging the question by saying you don't find the principle "interesting" when applied on the other end of the argument is effectively admitting that you know the principle is flawed.

tunesmith 9y ago
What? I said interesting question. Not a not interesting question. And which principle? The scenario? Yes, I believe the scenario is flawed. Not sure why you are saying admitted. To be clearer, white privilege exists. Male privilege exists. That is a power dynamic over women and minorities, enjoyed by men and non-minorities. To deny those privileges exist increases the privilege. To deny that existing bias exists helps to increase the bias. To admit those privileges exist decreases the privilege. To admit that existing biases exist helps to decrease the bias. So, writing a manifesto (that admits white privilege) does not put white people into greater danger beneath those who enjoy the power dynamic over them (no one). But, writing a manifesto (that denies sexism) does put women into greater danger beneath those who enjoy the power dynamic over them (men). Is that clearer?
- tomp 9y ago
  > Male privilege exists. That is a power dynamic over women This doesn't necessarily follow, because insofar as male privilege exists, so does female privilege (such as no draft, "women and children first", the "women are wonderful " effect and the fact that women represent the majority of the voting base), so it's really hard to say one sex is more privileged than the other, rather than just privileged differently.
  - tunesmith 9y ago
    Thanks for the comment, I intended it to implicitly come across that I was speaking about employment, where male privilege exceeds female privilege.
    - Inconel 9y ago
      Not to be dismissive of your comment, but I think the topic of privilege deserves more nuance than you are giving it. Privilege doesn't exist as a binary state, where some people enjoy privilege and others do not, we all enjoy some privilege, although obviously of varying degrees. Privilege doesn't stop just at men or women, white or non-white, there are numerous combinations of privilege that need to be taken into account. > where male privilege exceeds female privilege. I'm not sure I can categorically agree with this. While male privilege exists over women, I find it ludicrous to suggest that white women are less privileged overall than black men, despite black men benefiting from male privilege. I think many of the misunderstandings that occur when discussing privilege come about due to using only a few easily categorized traits in defining privileges, rather than a broader set that also include things like socio-economic conditions, health, upbringing, and a variety of personality or physical traits.

LordHumungous 9y ago

It is a little bit symmetrical though because white males are occasionally told they have had everything handed to them and they do find that infuriating to hear.