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The best explanation of why he was going to be fired and why that was the right thing to do (that I read) came from Yonatan Zunger, who had recently left a Huma

The best explanation of why he was going to be fired and why that was the right thing to do (that I read) came from Yonatan Zunger, who had recently left a Human Resources position at Google; especially his third point, in the following post on Medium: https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788 https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-man... In many way, it was not an unfamiliar sort of rant for the internet, and I was struck by the author's earnestness and apparent sincerity. It's possible that I make too many allowances for behaviour, and it's possible that I'm easily mislead. I thought his ideas were not in any way useful, or actionable, even had he been correct; That the ideas were poorly expressed, and full of such fringe 'truths' as are derived, insincerely, from cherry-picked science in order to be sold as snake-oil cures for the cognitive dissonance of the conservative and vulnerable; That the expression of these ideas was immensely foolish, especially appearing in the context of what I took to have been his initial intent, an appeal of tolerance of diverse viewpoints at Google. However, I'm always most disturbed by vitriol online when it's in service of beliefs that I share. It makes me deeply uneasy.

hkmurakami 9y ago
The 3rd point in that post was enlightening. Appreciate you linking us to the post.
packetslave 9y ago
A slight correction: Yonatan wasn't in Human Resources, he was a very senior and well-respected long-time software engineer and architect.
- Klockan 9y ago
  Note that his main accomplishment was the wildly successful Google+.
  - packetslave 9y ago
    and, you know, websearch
dgudkov 9y ago
Zunger believes that asking publicly "are people get hired because of their gender" is toxic and harmful, while asking "are people get paid more because of their gender" is not. This kind of thinking is skewed and biased.
- escape_goat 9y ago
  This would be a good point, has he stopped there. I would argue that there are some differences, but it would be a good point for you to bring up. However, he went much further. He stated that the fundamental problem was due to biological determinism in a way that did not mitigate a non-statistician reading of his words. Casting implicit doubt on the competence of every female gendered person in his workplace.
Method-X 9y ago
>You have probably heard about the manifesto a Googler (not someone senior) published internally about, essentially, how women and men are intrinsically different and we should stop trying to make it possible for women to be engineers, it’s just not worth it. I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Totally not what the memo was saying.
- kbhn 9y ago
  You did yourself a disservice by stopping after the first paragraph. If you would have recognized his opening paragraph as hyperbole, you would have gone on to read a comprehensive opinion from a former Google HR employee on the ramifications of publishing such a memo. He makes very good points that are worth consideration, or at least reading for the detailed insight into why Google's hand was played and forced to fire him.
  - juli1pb 9y ago
    sorry but Zunger is just full of himself and his text is just inappropriate, violent and an attempt to bully the guy.
  - jaibot 9y ago
    That post is a remarkable example of victim blaming. "Do you know how hard it is for ME now that you've gone and gotten people violently angry at you? People want to punch you in the face for something they think you said, and that's your fault!"
    - pducks32 9y ago
      I mean that is the job of any HR rep. That’s literally the point of the job is to focus on how actions effect the company.
Grue3 9y ago
That medium post is exactly why dudebro Silicon Valley culture persists. It's all about "cooperation", "collaboration", "empathy" for your "peers" for these people. Which means if you're different from your "peers" (i.e. rich white liberal cis males) you're not a "cultural fit". If you don't drink beer all Friday with your "team" and then go to a strip club for some "teambuilding", you're not a team player. Which means you're a "bad engineer". Is it any wonder there's no diversity?
- dijit 9y ago
  I'm sure somebody has harmed you rather badly for this to be your opinion of all tech. You should visit Europe- we're taking on SV hiring biases due to being so in love with the US, but "Bro" culture is not a thing I've ever seen. Ever. The most sexist thing I've ever seen in tech is a sales guy being a bit over confident with his flirting. But then, he did it with guys to (not that I'm justifying it). The inability to even discuss what is happening with hiring biases leads centrists to wish to discuss things; and the only people who are even open to discussion are the right wing. Who most centrists generally disagree with too. I'm a classic liberal, left by many definitions. But the extreme left will very happily crucify me as right wing if I open my mouth with an opinion. Double so if I'm a white hetero man. That attitude is much worse than any "bro" culture that may exist, not that I believe it does, and if that did exist then we can all rally against it and let those companies fail.
77pt77 9y ago
> especially his third point, in the following post on Medium: Relevant parts: > (3) And most seriously, the author does not appear to understand the consequences of what he wrote, either for others or himself. ... > These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.[2] ... >[2] https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376 https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1...
dgudkov 9y ago
1 day later a PhD in sexual neuroscience explicitly confirmed [1] that Yonatan Zunger (a software engineer) has no clue about gender. [1] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/no-the-google-manifesto-isnt-sexist-or-anti-diversity-its-science/article35903359/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/no-the-google-manife...

hkmurakami 9y ago

The 3rd point in that post was enlightening. Appreciate you linking us to the post.

packetslave 9y ago

A slight correction: Yonatan wasn't in Human Resources, he was a very senior and well-respected long-time software engineer and architect.

Klockan 9y ago
Note that his main accomplishment was the wildly successful Google+.
- packetslave 9y ago
  and, you know, websearch

dgudkov 9y ago

Zunger believes that asking publicly "are people get hired because of their gender" is toxic and harmful, while asking "are people get paid more because of their gender" is not. This kind of thinking is skewed and biased.

escape_goat 9y ago
This would be a good point, has he stopped there. I would argue that there are some differences, but it would be a good point for you to bring up. However, he went much further. He stated that the fundamental problem was due to biological determinism in a way that did not mitigate a non-statistician reading of his words. Casting implicit doubt on the competence of every female gendered person in his workplace.

Method-X 9y ago

>You have probably heard about the manifesto a Googler (not someone senior) published internally about, essentially, how women and men are intrinsically different and we should stop trying to make it possible for women to be engineers, it’s just not worth it. I stopped reading after the first paragraph. Totally not what the memo was saying.

kbhn 9y ago
You did yourself a disservice by stopping after the first paragraph. If you would have recognized his opening paragraph as hyperbole, you would have gone on to read a comprehensive opinion from a former Google HR employee on the ramifications of publishing such a memo. He makes very good points that are worth consideration, or at least reading for the detailed insight into why Google's hand was played and forced to fire him.
- juli1pb 9y ago
  sorry but Zunger is just full of himself and his text is just inappropriate, violent and an attempt to bully the guy.
- jaibot 9y ago
  That post is a remarkable example of victim blaming. "Do you know how hard it is for ME now that you've gone and gotten people violently angry at you? People want to punch you in the face for something they think you said, and that's your fault!"
  - pducks32 9y ago
    I mean that is the job of any HR rep. That’s literally the point of the job is to focus on how actions effect the company.

Grue3 9y ago

That medium post is exactly why dudebro Silicon Valley culture persists. It's all about "cooperation", "collaboration", "empathy" for your "peers" for these people. Which means if you're different from your "peers" (i.e. rich white liberal cis males) you're not a "cultural fit". If you don't drink beer all Friday with your "team" and then go to a strip club for some "teambuilding", you're not a team player. Which means you're a "bad engineer". Is it any wonder there's no diversity?

dijit 9y ago
I'm sure somebody has harmed you rather badly for this to be your opinion of all tech. You should visit Europe- we're taking on SV hiring biases due to being so in love with the US, but "Bro" culture is not a thing I've ever seen. Ever. The most sexist thing I've ever seen in tech is a sales guy being a bit over confident with his flirting. But then, he did it with guys to (not that I'm justifying it). The inability to even discuss what is happening with hiring biases leads centrists to wish to discuss things; and the only people who are even open to discussion are the right wing. Who most centrists generally disagree with too. I'm a classic liberal, left by many definitions. But the extreme left will very happily crucify me as right wing if I open my mouth with an opinion. Double so if I'm a white hetero man. That attitude is much worse than any "bro" culture that may exist, not that I believe it does, and if that did exist then we can all rally against it and let those companies fail.

77pt77 9y ago

> especially his third point, in the following post on Medium: Relevant parts: > (3) And most seriously, the author does not appear to understand the consequences of what he wrote, either for others or himself. ... > These views are fundamentally corrosive to any organization they show up in, drive people out, and I can’t think of any organization not specifically dedicated to those views that they would be welcome in. I’m afraid that’s likely to remain a serious problem for you for a long time to come. But our company is committed to maintaining a good environment for all of its people, and if one person is determined to thwart that, the solution is pretty clear.[2] ... >[2] https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1af7007d6376 https://extranewsfeed.com/tolerance-is-not-a-moral-precept-1...

dgudkov 9y ago

1 day later a PhD in sexual neuroscience explicitly confirmed [1] that Yonatan Zunger (a software engineer) has no clue about gender. [1] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/no-the-google-manifesto-isnt-sexist-or-anti-diversity-its-science/article35903359/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/no-the-google-manife...