3 ms·

I get that the author is frustrated with false claims about Qt, but calling people working on open source software "hippie coders" is just an insulting misrepre

by mb720 9y ago

I get that the author is frustrated with false claims about Qt, but calling people working on open source software "hippie coders" is just an insulting misrepresentation harming any rational debate.

Sean1708 9y ago
Plus it's a pretty big leap from "I can't use my favourite screen-reader" to "blind people can't use open source".
tinalumfoil 9y ago
I think ive read enough LKML to realize name calling doesn't slow software development and free software devs can handle being told off once in a while.
- mb720 9y ago
  When I provide code for free I want to be treated with respect. There's evidence that this is not always the case when working on the Linux Kernel. Of course, when somebody introduces bugs, that's a problem and should be talked about. But you can do that respectfully without sugarcoating the affair.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    This author wants to be treated with respect. They want to be to able to use free software too. But the projects are basically telling them 'too bad'. And when projects break stuff that's critical to his/her use the response is... oh well. If anyone ever fixes it we'll take the patch. That's not how you treat people, especially if you want them in your community. This isn't someone complaining that the 'close' button window control was moved to the wrong side. They've lost their ability to use a large chunk of free software and no one (more or less) cares. And they're probably frustrated as hell.
    - mb720 9y ago
      The comment you refer to was about how programmers getting yelled at on the mailing list of the Linux kernel and how that's not OK. The comment you refer to wasn't at all about Qt and the article about accessibility.
- whyever 9y ago
  > free software devs can handle being told off once in a while. That's survival bias: Those who can't are not Linux devs.
- CJefferson 9y ago
  I left GCC development after being ranted at. You just see the people who hang around.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  > free software devs can handle being told off once in a while That's bullshit. I mean, that's one of the main reasons I never bothered submitting a patch for Linux. Many of us really don't like being told off for what we're doing as a volunteer. I reluctantly can accept a limited amount of abuse for a paid project, but my tolerance for abuse for what I do as a volunteer is zero.
whyever 9y ago
I don't understand how people can be so entitled about free software. Especially given the reply by the Qt developers: > The JAWS people didn't answer emails when we reached out to them (admittedly quite a while ago), so we've been focusing on NVDA support. Patches to improve the situation with JAWS are welcome. Note that we may eventually implement UIA as opposed to IAccessible2, but that work is currently going slow. So they tried to work with them, but they did not reply. How are they supposed to fix the issue?
- falcolas 9y ago
  By not marketing their software as accessible; by not telling the author in an explicit email that they would solve any accessibility issues he found? If they had been clear up front about their accessibility support, I doubt this would have been an issue in the first place.
  - whyever 9y ago
    It is accessible, just not with some specific software. From what I can see, they tried to solve it, but could not due to lack of cooperation by the software's creator. Maybe they should have spent more effort, but then this was not a paying customer apparently.
    - falcolas 9y ago
      That specific software is the most popular software in use on Windows. That makes it something of a required use-case if you want to claim accessibility on Windows.

by mb720 9y ago

I get that the author is frustrated with false claims about Qt, but calling people working on open source software "hippie coders" is just an insulting misrepresentation harming any rational debate.

Sean1708 9y ago

Plus it's a pretty big leap from "I can't use my favourite screen-reader" to "blind people can't use open source".

tinalumfoil 9y ago

I think ive read enough LKML to realize name calling doesn't slow software development and free software devs can handle being told off once in a while.

mb720 9y ago
When I provide code for free I want to be treated with respect. There's evidence that this is not always the case when working on the Linux Kernel. Of course, when somebody introduces bugs, that's a problem and should be talked about. But you can do that respectfully without sugarcoating the affair.
- MBCook 9y ago
  This author wants to be treated with respect. They want to be to able to use free software too. But the projects are basically telling them 'too bad'. And when projects break stuff that's critical to his/her use the response is... oh well. If anyone ever fixes it we'll take the patch. That's not how you treat people, especially if you want them in your community. This isn't someone complaining that the 'close' button window control was moved to the wrong side. They've lost their ability to use a large chunk of free software and no one (more or less) cares. And they're probably frustrated as hell.
  - mb720 9y ago
    The comment you refer to was about how programmers getting yelled at on the mailing list of the Linux kernel and how that's not OK. The comment you refer to wasn't at all about Qt and the article about accessibility.
whyever 9y ago
> free software devs can handle being told off once in a while. That's survival bias: Those who can't are not Linux devs.
CJefferson 9y ago
I left GCC development after being ranted at. You just see the people who hang around.
jnbiche 9y ago
> free software devs can handle being told off once in a while That's bullshit. I mean, that's one of the main reasons I never bothered submitting a patch for Linux. Many of us really don't like being told off for what we're doing as a volunteer. I reluctantly can accept a limited amount of abuse for a paid project, but my tolerance for abuse for what I do as a volunteer is zero.

whyever 9y ago

I don't understand how people can be so entitled about free software. Especially given the reply by the Qt developers: > The JAWS people didn't answer emails when we reached out to them (admittedly quite a while ago), so we've been focusing on NVDA support. Patches to improve the situation with JAWS are welcome. Note that we may eventually implement UIA as opposed to IAccessible2, but that work is currently going slow. So they tried to work with them, but they did not reply. How are they supposed to fix the issue?

falcolas 9y ago
By not marketing their software as accessible; by not telling the author in an explicit email that they would solve any accessibility issues he found? If they had been clear up front about their accessibility support, I doubt this would have been an issue in the first place.
- whyever 9y ago
  It is accessible, just not with some specific software. From what I can see, they tried to solve it, but could not due to lack of cooperation by the software's creator. Maybe they should have spent more effort, but then this was not a paying customer apparently.
  - falcolas 9y ago
    That specific software is the most popular software in use on Windows. That makes it something of a required use-case if you want to claim accessibility on Windows.