5 ms·

The USA moralises issues more than any other Western democracy as far as I can tell. To a large portion of the electorate, it's not a question of what's [better

The USA moralises issues more than any other Western democracy as far as I can tell. To a large portion of the electorate, it's not a question of what's [better for women, better for the planet, better for x], it's a question of what's right and what's wrong. Prostitution is obviously wrong, therefore nobody good should be doing it, therefore criminalising it only affects bad people, which is fine, they're bad and they deserve punishment (maybe they'll see the error of their ways and become good people). Or that's how it seems from over here anyway. The UK's better, but not much.

stared 9y ago
The eternal battle of deontology vs utilitarianism. For example, just a few months the Polish government made emergency contraception pill prescription-only. This government is strongly against abortion of any kind, yet it passed a bill that will surely increase (illegal) abortion rates. Yet, it does not THINK about consequences of action, just if it supports "right" or "wrong" causes (for them any non-Catholic sex life is "wrong").
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  > This government is strongly against abortion of any kind, yet it passed a bill that will surely increase (illegal) abortion rates. This isn't a very good argument. If you care about "abortion of any kind", then increasing the illegal abortion rate while decreasing the overall abortion rate is a perfectly sensible thing to do.
  - stared 9y ago
    Unlike most EU countries, in Poland there is no legal abortion (except for rape and women's life in danger). I added "(illegal)" as an indication that all of such abortions are illegal in Poland.
- Steuard 9y ago
  Quite a few people who oppose abortion also believe that emergency contraception commonly operates by killing fertilized eggs (by preventing implantation), which would qualify as abortion under their definitions. If that is your belief, and you believe that abortion is morally equivalent to murder, then banning emergency contraception would be a self-consistent thing to do. (Now, the studies I've seen suggest that emergency contraception does not often if ever work that way since it appears to be entirely ineffective when taken after ovulation has occurred, but that's a separate question.)
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  > The eternal battle of deontology vs utilitarianism. When you are violently coercing people into some kind of behavior, one of those is objectively superior to the other.
  - thaumasiotes 9y ago
    So you're 100% on the side of deontology?
    - marcosdumay 9y ago
      Whose deontology?
      - thaumasiotes 9y ago
        Yours. The statement "When you are violently coercing people into some kind of behavior, one of those is objectively superior to the other" is purely deontological, saying that violently coercing people is bad.
        marcosdumay 9y ago
        I'm not coming from "this is bad" (even more because lots of times I don't think it is). Just from "this is a social imposition". Utility has a shared meaning among a population, ontology is meaningless over a group.
        thaumasiotes 9y ago
        Where are you getting "objectively superior" from without reference to good/bad?
        marcosdumay 9y ago
        One exists, the other is meaningless.

stared 9y ago

The eternal battle of deontology vs utilitarianism. For example, just a few months the Polish government made emergency contraception pill prescription-only. This government is strongly against abortion of any kind, yet it passed a bill that will surely increase (illegal) abortion rates. Yet, it does not THINK about consequences of action, just if it supports "right" or "wrong" causes (for them any non-Catholic sex life is "wrong").

thaumasiotes 9y ago
> This government is strongly against abortion of any kind, yet it passed a bill that will surely increase (illegal) abortion rates. This isn't a very good argument. If you care about "abortion of any kind", then increasing the illegal abortion rate while decreasing the overall abortion rate is a perfectly sensible thing to do.
- stared 9y ago
  Unlike most EU countries, in Poland there is no legal abortion (except for rape and women's life in danger). I added "(illegal)" as an indication that all of such abortions are illegal in Poland.
Steuard 9y ago
Quite a few people who oppose abortion also believe that emergency contraception commonly operates by killing fertilized eggs (by preventing implantation), which would qualify as abortion under their definitions. If that is your belief, and you believe that abortion is morally equivalent to murder, then banning emergency contraception would be a self-consistent thing to do. (Now, the studies I've seen suggest that emergency contraception does not often if ever work that way since it appears to be entirely ineffective when taken after ovulation has occurred, but that's a separate question.)
marcosdumay 9y ago
> The eternal battle of deontology vs utilitarianism. When you are violently coercing people into some kind of behavior, one of those is objectively superior to the other.
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  So you're 100% on the side of deontology?
  - marcosdumay 9y ago
    Whose deontology?
    - thaumasiotes 9y ago
      Yours. The statement "When you are violently coercing people into some kind of behavior, one of those is objectively superior to the other" is purely deontological, saying that violently coercing people is bad.
      - marcosdumay 9y ago
        I'm not coming from "this is bad" (even more because lots of times I don't think it is). Just from "this is a social imposition". Utility has a shared meaning among a population, ontology is meaningless over a group.
        thaumasiotes 9y ago
        Where are you getting "objectively superior" from without reference to good/bad?
        marcosdumay 9y ago
        One exists, the other is meaningless.