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The thing with Australia is it's very difficult for the US to learn from Australian social experiments and determine if they will be effective. Australia has ex

The thing with Australia is it's very difficult for the US to learn from Australian social experiments and determine if they will be effective. Australia has extremely tight border control and far more police powers. So while legalized prostitution has been a huge success in Australia, it may open avenues for human trafficking to thrive in the US. While I generally agree with the notion that legalized prostitution reduces human trafficking, this wouldn't be a certainty from looking at the effects on Australia/NZ.

iamflimflam1 9y ago
I suspect that legalising prostitution would actually make it much easier to prevent human trafficking for sex work.
- Noos 9y ago
  I think that it would increase it, because contrary to what people seem to think here, prostitution is very low on people's ideal career choices. Increasing demand is going to increase the need labor, and I don't think anyone here is advising their sons or daughters to have sex with strangers for money. SO trafficking would increase.
  - iamflimflam1 9y ago
    If something is legal then workers have protection, can form unions and have rights. It's more difficult in a legal environment to have people who are coerced or forced to work. If prostitution is illegal then it will be run by people who do not obey the law and will happily traffic people and have people people working illegally or forcibly. http://humantraffickingsgp.weebly.com/amsterdams-red-light-district.html http://humantraffickingsgp.weebly.com/amsterdams-red-light-d...
  - lighthazard 9y ago
    Current laws seem to penalize the sex worker and the buyer, not the traffickers. Legalizing this would let both parties involved feel safer, no repercussions from calling the police if something goes awry.
ClassyJacket 9y ago
It seems only logical to me that legalising sex work will make it harder for human traffickers via reduced demand for illegal sex workers.
- notjesse 9y ago
  Of course it is. But who is to say that those legal businesses don't partake in human trafficking? There are legal brothels in Australia found with links to international human traffickers. If Australia has this problem with far more police powers than American police have, who is to say that the problem won't be rampant in the US? I am all for legal prostitution if it reduces human trafficking. My argument is just that you can't assume that what works in Australia will necessarily work in the US. Source: http://www.smh.com.au/national/legal-brothels-linked-to-international-sex-trafficking-rings-20111009-1lfxs.html http://www.smh.com.au/national/legal-brothels-linked-to-inte...
  - forkLding 9y ago
    I think it will reduce human trafficking in that it would be much easier to monitor for human trafficking whereas in the past with some sort of grey-zone criminalization, you would have to actively first detect for sex workers, convince them that you are not arresting them, and then figure out if there are human traffickers or crime involved. Its one less step if you can more easily monitor and the sex workers can speak freely to police. In fact I'm more about how they treated sex work in several historical governments in the past and that is only government-operated brothels are allowed.
  - flukus 9y ago
    Where are you getting this idea that Australian police have far more powers than US police? There are differences here and there but our legal systems are fairly similar.
    - notjesse 9y ago
      For one Australia does not have a "bill of rights". In the US, the police require probable cause to even stop or question someone. In Australia there is no such requirement. While they can't just arrest or detain people at will, they have far more power over every day people. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicious_Lawless_Association_Disestablishment_Act_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicious_Lawless_Association_Di... This law would not be possible in the US due to the US constitution's protection of freedom of association, while it has been strictly enforced at times in the state of Queensland. These sorts of powers substantially weaken organized crime but at major cost to civil rights.
sitharus 9y ago
From experience in New Zealand, where prostitution is also legal for citizens and permanent residents, it doesn't do much to increase human trafficking. I'm not going to pretend it's all clean - certainly there's underage, trafficked and exploited people. However that's still the case when it's illegal, the difference is how we can find and protect those who have been exploited by others. When prostitution is legal a prostitute can go to the police without fear of prosecution (but not persecution unfortunately - less of an issue here because the laws were loosely enforced). Additionally a legitimate business is more attractive to most customers, so a legal businesses subject to inspection and record keeping requirements are more likely to take business from the less legitimate ones. My personal opinion is that prostitution is here to stay. We should focus on the safety of those involved. Giving them a criminal record is certainly not going to get them away from prostitution.
- dvtv75 9y ago
  When I was in Dunedin, there were rumored to be some rather underhanded tactics that brothels used against each other. One burned down shortly before I left, and word had it that it wasn't an accidental fire. But you know how rumors are - all it takes is one person to decide that "It's obvious, innit?" and they start repeating it as fact.
- slowmotiony 9y ago
  Well, Germany also legalitzed it and quickly rose up the ranks to be a top human trafficking spot in Europe, but it seems like everyone in this thread completely ignores it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany
  - sitharus 9y ago
    I'm not going to argue against the facts, but I will argue that the results for victims are different. If a victim of sex trafficking is caught on the street when prostitution is illegal they're now a criminal and will probably be dealt with as such by police looking for easy numbers. When they haven't committed a crime they should be able to get aid from the authorities and their pimps and traffickers arrested. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and resources aren't always available for whatever reason. I don't like it, but I also don't like creating criminals out of victims.
the_mitsuhiko 9y ago
Austria has lax gun laws and lose border controls and legal prostitution. You can also learn from us.

iamflimflam1 9y ago

I suspect that legalising prostitution would actually make it much easier to prevent human trafficking for sex work.

Noos 9y ago
I think that it would increase it, because contrary to what people seem to think here, prostitution is very low on people's ideal career choices. Increasing demand is going to increase the need labor, and I don't think anyone here is advising their sons or daughters to have sex with strangers for money. SO trafficking would increase.
- iamflimflam1 9y ago
  If something is legal then workers have protection, can form unions and have rights. It's more difficult in a legal environment to have people who are coerced or forced to work. If prostitution is illegal then it will be run by people who do not obey the law and will happily traffic people and have people people working illegally or forcibly. http://humantraffickingsgp.weebly.com/amsterdams-red-light-district.html http://humantraffickingsgp.weebly.com/amsterdams-red-light-d...
- lighthazard 9y ago
  Current laws seem to penalize the sex worker and the buyer, not the traffickers. Legalizing this would let both parties involved feel safer, no repercussions from calling the police if something goes awry.

ClassyJacket 9y ago

It seems only logical to me that legalising sex work will make it harder for human traffickers via reduced demand for illegal sex workers.

notjesse 9y ago
Of course it is. But who is to say that those legal businesses don't partake in human trafficking? There are legal brothels in Australia found with links to international human traffickers. If Australia has this problem with far more police powers than American police have, who is to say that the problem won't be rampant in the US? I am all for legal prostitution if it reduces human trafficking. My argument is just that you can't assume that what works in Australia will necessarily work in the US. Source: http://www.smh.com.au/national/legal-brothels-linked-to-international-sex-trafficking-rings-20111009-1lfxs.html http://www.smh.com.au/national/legal-brothels-linked-to-inte...
- forkLding 9y ago
  I think it will reduce human trafficking in that it would be much easier to monitor for human trafficking whereas in the past with some sort of grey-zone criminalization, you would have to actively first detect for sex workers, convince them that you are not arresting them, and then figure out if there are human traffickers or crime involved. Its one less step if you can more easily monitor and the sex workers can speak freely to police. In fact I'm more about how they treated sex work in several historical governments in the past and that is only government-operated brothels are allowed.
- flukus 9y ago
  Where are you getting this idea that Australian police have far more powers than US police? There are differences here and there but our legal systems are fairly similar.
  - notjesse 9y ago
    For one Australia does not have a "bill of rights". In the US, the police require probable cause to even stop or question someone. In Australia there is no such requirement. While they can't just arrest or detain people at will, they have far more power over every day people. Please see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicious_Lawless_Association_Disestablishment_Act_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicious_Lawless_Association_Di... This law would not be possible in the US due to the US constitution's protection of freedom of association, while it has been strictly enforced at times in the state of Queensland. These sorts of powers substantially weaken organized crime but at major cost to civil rights.

sitharus 9y ago

From experience in New Zealand, where prostitution is also legal for citizens and permanent residents, it doesn't do much to increase human trafficking. I'm not going to pretend it's all clean - certainly there's underage, trafficked and exploited people. However that's still the case when it's illegal, the difference is how we can find and protect those who have been exploited by others. When prostitution is legal a prostitute can go to the police without fear of prosecution (but not persecution unfortunately - less of an issue here because the laws were loosely enforced). Additionally a legitimate business is more attractive to most customers, so a legal businesses subject to inspection and record keeping requirements are more likely to take business from the less legitimate ones. My personal opinion is that prostitution is here to stay. We should focus on the safety of those involved. Giving them a criminal record is certainly not going to get them away from prostitution.

dvtv75 9y ago
When I was in Dunedin, there were rumored to be some rather underhanded tactics that brothels used against each other. One burned down shortly before I left, and word had it that it wasn't an accidental fire. But you know how rumors are - all it takes is one person to decide that "It's obvious, innit?" and they start repeating it as fact.
slowmotiony 9y ago
Well, Germany also legalitzed it and quickly rose up the ranks to be a top human trafficking spot in Europe, but it seems like everyone in this thread completely ignores it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_Germany
- sitharus 9y ago
  I'm not going to argue against the facts, but I will argue that the results for victims are different. If a victim of sex trafficking is caught on the street when prostitution is illegal they're now a criminal and will probably be dealt with as such by police looking for easy numbers. When they haven't committed a crime they should be able to get aid from the authorities and their pimps and traffickers arrested. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world and resources aren't always available for whatever reason. I don't like it, but I also don't like creating criminals out of victims.

the_mitsuhiko 9y ago

Austria has lax gun laws and lose border controls and legal prostitution. You can also learn from us.