5 ms·

That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someo

by chank 9y ago

That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someone feel accepted and have authentic connections, but the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else.

vinceguidry 9y ago
> the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want to go, that's the problem. They don't want to talk. They don't want to open up. We idealize the past I think. There was never any magical time when people weren't lonely. There was never any magical time when people didn't kill themselves. If anything the Internet has made it easier for people to find the connection they want. It doesn't solve anybody's status problem, that still requires good ole-fashioned hard work and achievement and luck. If you're lonely, ask yourself why you refuse to go out and meet people and make connections. Even if it's just at the grocery store. Even if it's just with the homeless guy down the road. Keep digging and eventually you'll find a root cause. The nature of the problem is such that you have to be the one to reach out. You can't expect society to do that for you. Nobody can solve your loneliness problem for you. That's the hard lesson I had to learn.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dade_ 9y ago
  I think what has changed is that it is now far easier to live alone. The apps, appliances, late hours at stores, restaurants & grocery stores catering to single people and for many, an income that affords them a living arrangement without a roommate. Essentially more people than ever don't need to deal with people for the necessities. People are annoying, they get sick, cancel plans, ask for favours, make stupid decisions, and there is always so much work to do, things to optimize, fitness goals, books to read, shows to watch. It's easier, until it isn't...
  - InternetUser 9y ago
    If I may ask, what's your age and your marital status?
- goshx 9y ago
  > Even if it’s just at the grocery store. Even if it’s just with the homeless guy down the road. I think you are missing the point. Loneliness is not solved by simply being around people. I’ve been living in the US for 5 years now and the amount of people I can call friends here is very small, despite all the attempts at grocery stores, bars, meetups and even homeless folks. Society doesn’t seem to be open to take in someone that apparently doesn’t fit certain criteria they impose. And unless you are willing to do exactly as other people do, you’re going to have a hard time. People may disagree, this is just my personal experience.
  - icantdrive55 9y ago
    I've lived in the Bay Area most of my life. I have had a hard time finding true friends. I know it's partially my fault. I also believe it's the environment. I live in a wealth area. I'm not wealthy, by any means. People seem to have everything here, except friends. If they are lucky, they have a wife, or a husband they can tolerate. I think because the cost of living is so great, people have their defenses up. Kinda like, "What do you want from me?" My best friend died a few years ago. He was a master at friendship. He was also manic, but he knew the secret to friendship. He would just call people. I met him at work, and within a few weeks he would call me daily. At first, I tried to end the conversations quick, but finally gave up. We were best friends for years. We went into businesses together. I could trust him with my life. I don't have it in me to be so persistent though. I did try to keep friends with my exes, but there was always that day, where they I could tell they wanted more, or nothing. When I was younger, I really thought men and women could be friends, but I don't think it works in the long run, especially after an intimate relationship. If I had a do over, I would have listened to, "We don't want to ruin what we have right now?". I can add this. Money can't buy good friends. It might be the only huge downside to making it financially. My neighbors are very lonely. Marin County might be the loneliest place on earth. (Yes--I outed my county. Too many people move expecting their lives to be great. And to those that have a different perspective--share it. I'm at a loss.)
  - jesseendahl 9y ago
    @icantdrive55 - Many of your comments (including the one on this thread) are "dead" (hidden) for some reason. I'm not sure why that's the case, and since I didn't see anything wrong with your comments, I figured you should know.
- tapp 9y ago
  > It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. I understand what you're saying, but I also think it's important to acknowledge that dynamics have changed - and we don't need to go back 30 years to see it. As recently as 5 or 6 years ago, I would quite often strike up conversations with strangers at the bus stop or on the train or at the post office. Usually these conversations would last for just a few minutes, sometimes an hour or more, and in a handful of instances I made a long term friend. I find that this is vastly harder to do now, because nearly everyone in those common spaces is now engrossed by their phone. This changes the dynamics of interacting and striking up a conversation substantially by adding a lot of social friction. Historically, the interaction was something like: slightly awkward silence -> random comment about the weather or some equally anodyne topic to break the awkward silence -> possibly a rewarding conversation. Now, the awkward silence never occurs in the first place. It's been entirely replaced by everyone scrolling the feeds on their phones. To start a conversation, you have to proactively interrupt what the person is doing and ask for their attention. What's more, even if you successfully navigate that dynamic and start a conversation, the soft dings and tapping reminders from the phone constantly pull people's attention back to the virtual from the physical. Smartphones have been a boon in myriad ways, but I do miss the chances to engage in face-to-face conversation with strangers in the real world that existed before they commanded every second of our spare attention.
  - arstin 9y ago
    Good points, especially how unplanned interactions have become interruptions. Slumping through life looped into a slab of infinity glass used to be an absurd dystopia... Sure, most interactions never develop into anything lasting, but you only need one to click every few years...or even a lifetime! Excuse a slight tangent, since it was on my mind today: I'm sure I'll be defensively sniped at as an "extrovert" here (lol), but I do think we have a duty to each other to be outgoing, warm, forbearing...to make every effort that others feel at ease. Techies will sometimes make icky demands like that a social interaction must be "useful". Yes, looking random people in the eye and talking to them...even when they're not giving you anything...is tough. I know well that it can be among the hardest and most draining things. But I, anyway, believe we're obliged to learn to do so well and to suffer through it. Resolving to take on this incredibly modest, day-to-day responsibility of making others feel acknowledged and at ease---of trying to bring out the best in everyone---should surely be one key step in addressing your own loneliness. Obviously part of this skill is respecting the extent to which others want left alone. And I, for one, prefer to spend most of my own time far away from people. Please don't snarl at me for not understanding "introverts"! :) But the point is of course tied with how tech can affect what people in fact expect and want and how tech can adjust the "cost" of an interaction (smartphones, public spaces optimized for laptops inside and cars outside...and on...and on...).
- chank 9y ago
  What you and I consider an authentic connection seem to very different. It's not strictly a numbers game. And I beg differ that it was absolutely easier even just 20 years to meet people and have more meaningful connections. The age of connectivity through artificial means has distanced everyone from society as a whole. People don't put any effort into their relationships anymore and that is the source of the problem from both ends.
  - zachsnow 9y ago
    While I absolutely agree re: distance, I think that another reason "20 years ago" resonates is that many of use were younger 20 years ago. And it sure was easier to make friends as a kid.
    - chank 9y ago
      Everyone makes friends a lot easier while in school thats for sure. It's an environment that's very conducive toward doing so. However 20 years ago the primary way people were connecting with one another wasn't through an app or website.
- fweespeech 9y ago
  > If you're lonely, ask yourself why you refuse to go out and meet people and make connections. Even if it's just at the grocery store. Even if it's just with the homeless guy down the road. Keep digging and eventually you'll find a root cause. Your posts come off as an extrovert who doesn't understand why introverts find socializing with random strangers a draining and unpleasant process. > There's also the problem that, even if the infrastructure were there, that doesn't mean people will take advantage of it. Loneliness is tied very closely to the pride part of the brain, nobody wants to admit they have a problem and seek out help for it. For some people, maybe. I don't care about random strangers, pride, and a number of other things people (like you) expect me to. People seem to think I'm lying or confused when I say this. My accomplishments in life (outside of work) have been as anonymous as anyone could make them. I've still had times I felt lonely but it has more to do with the fact I realized a group of people I thought were trustworthy were not. As a result, its transient until I'm done pulling the knives out of back and addressing the wounds. As such, a large number of interactions with strangers isn't useful to me. I wouldn't trust them because most people are too selfish to be trustworthy. And trust is necessary to deal with loneliness and form connections.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  >That's the hard lesson I had to learn. I learned a harder lesson: some people don't need to reach out. They are naturally attractive. Some of it can be helped, but not all of it. If people aren't approaching you, you're not likely in that category and connections will be more difficult for you. Do you try to change yourself, your environment, or something else? Knowing that it's a harder road puts off some people from taking that road. It's a classic trade off of playing to your strengths vs. covering your weaknesses. For example, hitting on girls at the gym goes down differently depending on how you look. Same for approaching people in public for casual conversation. Some people say you shouldn't hit on people at the gym at all. Do I risk offending someone at the gym or try to make a connection? When people report about bad experiences with casual connections in any place, do you let that change your behavior or not?
sjg007 9y ago
Society says you need to pay money to not be lonely. It also says that anyone that wants to have a conversation with you in a coffee shop is crazy.
- ar-nelson 9y ago
  How, exactly, can you pay money to not be lonely? If it were that simple, this would be much less of a problem.
  - lighttower 9y ago
    What the OP is saying is that marketing makes the impression that "IF I HAD {X} THEN I'D BE {NOT LONELY, HAPPY, LIKED, BEAUTIFUL, ETC}" where {x }is the set of items that you're actively feeling marketing pressure to buy.

by chank 9y ago

vinceguidry 9y ago

> the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want to go, that's the problem. They don't want to talk. They don't want to open up. We idealize the past I think. There was never any magical time when people weren't lonely. There was never any magical time when people didn't kill themselves. If anything the Internet has made it easier for people to find the connection they want. It doesn't solve anybody's status problem, that still requires good ole-fashioned hard work and achievement and luck. If you're lonely, ask yourself why you refuse to go out and meet people and make connections. Even if it's just at the grocery store. Even if it's just with the homeless guy down the road. Keep digging and eventually you'll find a root cause. The nature of the problem is such that you have to be the one to reach out. You can't expect society to do that for you. Nobody can solve your loneliness problem for you. That's the hard lesson I had to learn.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dade_ 9y ago
I think what has changed is that it is now far easier to live alone. The apps, appliances, late hours at stores, restaurants & grocery stores catering to single people and for many, an income that affords them a living arrangement without a roommate. Essentially more people than ever don't need to deal with people for the necessities. People are annoying, they get sick, cancel plans, ask for favours, make stupid decisions, and there is always so much work to do, things to optimize, fitness goals, books to read, shows to watch. It's easier, until it isn't...
- InternetUser 9y ago
  If I may ask, what's your age and your marital status?
goshx 9y ago
> Even if it’s just at the grocery store. Even if it’s just with the homeless guy down the road. I think you are missing the point. Loneliness is not solved by simply being around people. I’ve been living in the US for 5 years now and the amount of people I can call friends here is very small, despite all the attempts at grocery stores, bars, meetups and even homeless folks. Society doesn’t seem to be open to take in someone that apparently doesn’t fit certain criteria they impose. And unless you are willing to do exactly as other people do, you’re going to have a hard time. People may disagree, this is just my personal experience.
- icantdrive55 9y ago
  I've lived in the Bay Area most of my life. I have had a hard time finding true friends. I know it's partially my fault. I also believe it's the environment. I live in a wealth area. I'm not wealthy, by any means. People seem to have everything here, except friends. If they are lucky, they have a wife, or a husband they can tolerate. I think because the cost of living is so great, people have their defenses up. Kinda like, "What do you want from me?" My best friend died a few years ago. He was a master at friendship. He was also manic, but he knew the secret to friendship. He would just call people. I met him at work, and within a few weeks he would call me daily. At first, I tried to end the conversations quick, but finally gave up. We were best friends for years. We went into businesses together. I could trust him with my life. I don't have it in me to be so persistent though. I did try to keep friends with my exes, but there was always that day, where they I could tell they wanted more, or nothing. When I was younger, I really thought men and women could be friends, but I don't think it works in the long run, especially after an intimate relationship. If I had a do over, I would have listened to, "We don't want to ruin what we have right now?". I can add this. Money can't buy good friends. It might be the only huge downside to making it financially. My neighbors are very lonely. Marin County might be the loneliest place on earth. (Yes--I outed my county. Too many people move expecting their lives to be great. And to those that have a different perspective--share it. I'm at a loss.)
- jesseendahl 9y ago
  @icantdrive55 - Many of your comments (including the one on this thread) are "dead" (hidden) for some reason. I'm not sure why that's the case, and since I didn't see anything wrong with your comments, I figured you should know.
tapp 9y ago
> It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. I understand what you're saying, but I also think it's important to acknowledge that dynamics have changed - and we don't need to go back 30 years to see it. As recently as 5 or 6 years ago, I would quite often strike up conversations with strangers at the bus stop or on the train or at the post office. Usually these conversations would last for just a few minutes, sometimes an hour or more, and in a handful of instances I made a long term friend. I find that this is vastly harder to do now, because nearly everyone in those common spaces is now engrossed by their phone. This changes the dynamics of interacting and striking up a conversation substantially by adding a lot of social friction. Historically, the interaction was something like: slightly awkward silence -> random comment about the weather or some equally anodyne topic to break the awkward silence -> possibly a rewarding conversation. Now, the awkward silence never occurs in the first place. It's been entirely replaced by everyone scrolling the feeds on their phones. To start a conversation, you have to proactively interrupt what the person is doing and ask for their attention. What's more, even if you successfully navigate that dynamic and start a conversation, the soft dings and tapping reminders from the phone constantly pull people's attention back to the virtual from the physical. Smartphones have been a boon in myriad ways, but I do miss the chances to engage in face-to-face conversation with strangers in the real world that existed before they commanded every second of our spare attention.
- arstin 9y ago
  Good points, especially how unplanned interactions have become interruptions. Slumping through life looped into a slab of infinity glass used to be an absurd dystopia... Sure, most interactions never develop into anything lasting, but you only need one to click every few years...or even a lifetime! Excuse a slight tangent, since it was on my mind today: I'm sure I'll be defensively sniped at as an "extrovert" here (lol), but I do think we have a duty to each other to be outgoing, warm, forbearing...to make every effort that others feel at ease. Techies will sometimes make icky demands like that a social interaction must be "useful". Yes, looking random people in the eye and talking to them...even when they're not giving you anything...is tough. I know well that it can be among the hardest and most draining things. But I, anyway, believe we're obliged to learn to do so well and to suffer through it. Resolving to take on this incredibly modest, day-to-day responsibility of making others feel acknowledged and at ease---of trying to bring out the best in everyone---should surely be one key step in addressing your own loneliness. Obviously part of this skill is respecting the extent to which others want left alone. And I, for one, prefer to spend most of my own time far away from people. Please don't snarl at me for not understanding "introverts"! :) But the point is of course tied with how tech can affect what people in fact expect and want and how tech can adjust the "cost" of an interaction (smartphones, public spaces optimized for laptops inside and cars outside...and on...and on...).
chank 9y ago
What you and I consider an authentic connection seem to very different. It's not strictly a numbers game. And I beg differ that it was absolutely easier even just 20 years to meet people and have more meaningful connections. The age of connectivity through artificial means has distanced everyone from society as a whole. People don't put any effort into their relationships anymore and that is the source of the problem from both ends.
- zachsnow 9y ago
  While I absolutely agree re: distance, I think that another reason "20 years ago" resonates is that many of use were younger 20 years ago. And it sure was easier to make friends as a kid.
  - chank 9y ago
    Everyone makes friends a lot easier while in school thats for sure. It's an environment that's very conducive toward doing so. However 20 years ago the primary way people were connecting with one another wasn't through an app or website.
fweespeech 9y ago
> If you're lonely, ask yourself why you refuse to go out and meet people and make connections. Even if it's just at the grocery store. Even if it's just with the homeless guy down the road. Keep digging and eventually you'll find a root cause. Your posts come off as an extrovert who doesn't understand why introverts find socializing with random strangers a draining and unpleasant process. > There's also the problem that, even if the infrastructure were there, that doesn't mean people will take advantage of it. Loneliness is tied very closely to the pride part of the brain, nobody wants to admit they have a problem and seek out help for it. For some people, maybe. I don't care about random strangers, pride, and a number of other things people (like you) expect me to. People seem to think I'm lying or confused when I say this. My accomplishments in life (outside of work) have been as anonymous as anyone could make them. I've still had times I felt lonely but it has more to do with the fact I realized a group of people I thought were trustworthy were not. As a result, its transient until I'm done pulling the knives out of back and addressing the wounds. As such, a large number of interactions with strangers isn't useful to me. I wouldn't trust them because most people are too selfish to be trustworthy. And trust is necessary to deal with loneliness and form connections.
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>That's the hard lesson I had to learn. I learned a harder lesson: some people don't need to reach out. They are naturally attractive. Some of it can be helped, but not all of it. If people aren't approaching you, you're not likely in that category and connections will be more difficult for you. Do you try to change yourself, your environment, or something else? Knowing that it's a harder road puts off some people from taking that road. It's a classic trade off of playing to your strengths vs. covering your weaknesses. For example, hitting on girls at the gym goes down differently depending on how you look. Same for approaching people in public for casual conversation. Some people say you shouldn't hit on people at the gym at all. Do I risk offending someone at the gym or try to make a connection? When people report about bad experiences with casual connections in any place, do you let that change your behavior or not?

sjg007 9y ago

Society says you need to pay money to not be lonely. It also says that anyone that wants to have a conversation with you in a coffee shop is crazy.

ar-nelson 9y ago
How, exactly, can you pay money to not be lonely? If it were that simple, this would be much less of a problem.
- lighttower 9y ago
  What the OP is saying is that marketing makes the impression that "IF I HAD {X} THEN I'D BE {NOT LONELY, HAPPY, LIKED, BEAUTIFUL, ETC}" where {x }is the set of items that you're actively feeling marketing pressure to buy.