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Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? P

Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. Real, authentic human connections banish loneliness with a ruthless effectiveness. And you can make one with anyone. But we never want to make an authentic human connection with just anyone. We place conditions on the people we're willing to get close to. And paint ourselves into a very lonely corner by doing it. I used to get lonely a lot in my mid-twenties. I had a bar I went to, a coffee shop I frequented, and good friends at both of them. But I was still lonely. It took a lot of self-inquiry, but eventually I realized that I didn't have a loneliness problem, I had a status problem that was presenting as loneliness. I wasn't seeing my life as having turned out the way I wanted it to, so I was beating myself up over it. Psychological problems respond really well to talk therapy. Unfortunately that's not a very good solution. We don't have the resources to give everybody with the problem therapy. Instead I think we need to adopt a similar approach that's being used for suicide prevention. Train "gatekeepers" to identify at-risk individuals and get them the help they need, and increase awareness in the general public. I wish we could do more. But without massive a public investment in psychological health, personalized treatment will remain a luxury solution for those who can afford it. There's also the problem that, even if the infrastructure were there, that doesn't mean people will take advantage of it. Loneliness is tied very closely to the pride part of the brain, nobody wants to admit they have a problem and seek out help for it.

trophycase 9y ago
A lot, if not most, of people's brains are not wired to meet nor interact with as many strangers as we currently do on a daily basis. Getting to know new people and forming real connections can be exhausting.
chank 9y ago
That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someone feel accepted and have authentic connections, but the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  > the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want to go, that's the problem. They don't want to talk. They don't want to open up. We idealize the past I think. There was never any magical time when people weren't lonely. There was never any magical time when people didn't kill themselves. If anything the Internet has made it easier for people to find the connection they want. It doesn't solve anybody's status problem, that still requires good ole-fashioned hard work and achievement and luck. If you're lonely, ask yourself why you refuse to go out and meet people and make connections. Even if it's just at the grocery store. Even if it's just with the homeless guy down the road. Keep digging and eventually you'll find a root cause. The nature of the problem is such that you have to be the one to reach out. You can't expect society to do that for you. Nobody can solve your loneliness problem for you. That's the hard lesson I had to learn.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - dade_ 9y ago
    I think what has changed is that it is now far easier to live alone. The apps, appliances, late hours at stores, restaurants & grocery stores catering to single people and for many, an income that affords them a living arrangement without a roommate. Essentially more people than ever don't need to deal with people for the necessities. People are annoying, they get sick, cancel plans, ask for favours, make stupid decisions, and there is always so much work to do, things to optimize, fitness goals, books to read, shows to watch. It's easier, until it isn't...
    - InternetUser 9y ago
      If I may ask, what's your age and your marital status?
pmoriarty 9y ago
It's one thing to hang out with friends at a coffee shop and beat yourself up over life not turning out the way you wanted it to. It's quite another thing not to have any friends. Most of the people in the coffee shops around here have their noses buried in their laptops or books, and when they talk to people they mostly talk to friends who they went to the coffee shop with. Very few people are actually meeting new people and making new friends with random people at coffee shops. Bars are geared towards hanging out with people you already know, or hitting on strangers. I'm not sure how many people are making new friends there, unless they're relatively extroverted. Therapy these days is kind of weird. Because insurance companies don't want to pay much, it's geared towards short-term, behavior-oriented therapy. That might help with certain conditions like phobias, but I'm not sure how much it can help with deeper issues. There are other types of therapies, but because insurance mostly doesn't cover them, they're not really practical for most people (not to mention that they're out of fashion these days, as most therapists want to practice CBT because that's what the insurance covers and that's what they're taught in school as being "scientific", "modern", and "evidence-based" -- even when there's evidence it doesn't actually help). I do think the modern world, especially for people who spend a lot of time online or consuming a lot of media like TV, movies, and games, can be pretty lonely, or at least devoid of deep human contact. I'm not sure what the solution is, apart from unplugging and spending a lot of time and effort in making connections. But being psychologically ready to do that in the first place is an achievement in itself.
- idle_processor 9y ago
  Mind linking to some of the compelling evidence against CBT?
  - pmoriarty 9y ago
    http://www.psychotherapy.net/interview/bruce-wampold-psychotherapy-effectiveness http://www.psychotherapy.net/interview/bruce-wampold-psychot...
    - chillacy 9y ago
Jabanga 9y ago
>But without massive a public investment in psychological health, personalized treatment will remain a luxury solution for those who can afford it. Hopefully with greater automation, we can free up more people to become therapists.
- AstralStorm 9y ago
  Also liberate people of the money to pay those therapists. /s I love shortsighted technological solutions to social problems.
  - Jabanga 9y ago
    Your cynical view is very old [1]: >Predictions that automation will make humans redundant have been made before, however, going back to the Industrial Revolution, when textile workers, most famously the Luddites, protested that machines and steam engines would destroy their livelihoods. “Never until now did human invention devise such expedients for dispensing with the labour of the poor,” said a pamphlet at the time. Subsequent outbreaks of concern occurred in the 1920s (“March of the machine makes idle hands”, declared a New York Times headline in 1928), the 1930s (when John Maynard Keynes coined the term “technological unemployment”) and 1940s, when the New York Times referred to the revival of such worries as the renewal of an “old argument”. >As computers began to appear in offices and robots on factory floors, President John F. Kennedy declared that the major domestic challenge of the 1960s was to “maintain full employment at a time when automation…is replacing men”. In 1964 a group of Nobel prizewinners, known as the Ad Hoc Committee on the Triple Revolution, sent President Lyndon Johnson a memo alerting him to the danger of a revolution triggered by “the combination of the computer and the automated self-regulating machine”. This, they said, was leading to a new era of production “which requires progressively less human labour” and threatened to divide society into a skilled elite and an unskilled underclass. The advent of personal computers in the 1980s provoked further hand-wringing over potential job losses. and based on a simplistic understanding of how automation impacts the demand for labour. Automation reduces costs, and this increases consumer spending on more difficult to automate goods/services. [2] That has been the pattern for 200 years, and why wages today are 20X what they were in 1800. Unfortunately, ideas like yours are very common [3] and lead to terrible government policy. [1] https://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21700758-will-smarter-machines-cause-mass-unemployment-automation-and-anxiety https://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21700758-will-... [2] https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/24/13327014/productivity-paradox-innovation-growth https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/24/13327014/productivi... [3] http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/11/the_big_four_ec.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/11/the_big_four_ec.html
ambicapter 9y ago
Thanks for this. Thanks a lot for this.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bogomipz 9y ago
>"Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one." Its fascinating that you you have chosen to state this as fact without any supporting data. >"Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem." Again based on what, just because you say so? There's an excellent book called "Bowling Alone" that came out in 2000 long before social media. The book traces a phenomenon of declining "social capital" that began in post war boom. Social media and the large scale replacing of real interaction with those conducted by phone has only exacerbated this. There plenty of real data in the book and the author conducted half a million interviews over 25 years. See: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/p/putnam-alone.html http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/p/putnam-alone.html >Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. There is big difference between being alone and "feeling alone." Going to Wall Mart or coffee shops solves the problem of the former. This "being alone" however is generally not the one psychologists are referring to when they talk about the modern phenomenon of "chronic loneliness." Of hose 50 people on the street you refer to, how many of those people have ear buds in and are/or are staring at, typing on or talking on phone as they walk? How many are cognizant of those around them? Most of them wouldn't hear you even if you did try talk to them. Spend just 5 minutes walking anywhere Manhattan and it is quite apparent. Walk into a bar and most everyone waiting for their friend is staring at or typing into their smart phone. Their maybe 50 people around on the street but most of them are in their own private bubble. The Atlantic recently had an interview with John Cacioppo who is something of an expert on the subject. He sites both cultural and environmental reasons for an uptick in loneliness. See: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-loneliness-begets-loneliness/521841/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-lonel...
- kagamine 9y ago
  > There is big difference between being alone and "feeling alone. One key indicator over the last 100 years has been: if I get a bad cold and lie in bed for 3 days, will anyone phone or knock on my door? If the answer is no, you might feel very lonely. Going to a coffee shop isn't going to change that.
pavel_lishin 9y ago
> Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. > Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. I met two strangers today, in the sense of having a long-ish conversation with them. One of them was incredibly boring, to the point where I'd rather be on an island by myself than with that person. The other, maybe could become a friend, if we both put some effort into it. Saying that there are 50 people living on the same block as you is like telling a hungry man that people threw away the remnants of 50 meals. Sure, you could dig through the garbage and eke out an existence, but it's not really a good solution to hunger.
- chillacy 9y ago
  If you're starving, those leftovers will have to do. Likewise if you're actually suffering health consequences from being lonely, those boring people will have to do. And over time, meeting 2 people a day (especially doing common activities like startup events or sports), you'd probably eventually meet people you gel with.
RoboTeddy 9y ago
There are all sorts of forces that could be leading to more widespread loneliness, e.g.: * As material wealth increases, there's less need to share physical resources (bathrooms, courtyards, etc). These resources tended to bring the same people together frequently, which is a (the?) important precursor for developing a close social tie. * Many bright ambitious women used to organize all sorts of social capital increasing endeavors; this was reduced when society reformed and excellent private-sector career paths became more available. * People often move for college, and then again for work (perhaps more than once) -- this used to be more rare. Moves like these have big negative externalities, since they rip the shared social fabric. These problems arise mainly from collective decisions and changes in culture and economics, and aren't self-inflicted by individuals. It doesn't really make sense to say that a problem is self-inflicted when it applies to a large percentage of people-- almost by definition there's something else going on.
speeder 9y ago
I have to really disagree. I don't have friends... But it is not really a self-inflicted problem, I did tried to strike conversations with random strangers the most I could, be pleasant, whatnot. But the places where I lived, it just didn't worked. 1. My neighbourhood has a race problem, most people there are mixed race but think themselves as black, I am mixed race too, but I look white. Trying to talk to neighbours didn't led to friendships, it led to people threatening to sic their pitbulls on me or showing to me their baseball bats and telling me to get my white ass out of their black neighbourhood. 2. For some time I lived in a Brazil's biggest city, where most people moved there to work, and are always in a hurry, there is always something to do, and they are always 'just passing', people frequently don't want to have friends, because they don't want to get attached to a place where they want to be only temporarily, and often people don't even strike random conversations, they are too busy, sometimes it wasn't even possible, like overcrowded and noisy public transport where you couldn't hear even yourself, much less someone else talking to you. 3. I went to some startup-related events, my company wasn't famous, and I didn't even had money to look fancy, for example I can't afford a nice watch. (an object I saw lots of successful startup owners wearing, despite today most people checking time on their phone...). Many people flat out refused to talk to me, they were dismissive in some ways, or moved away, or one guy I approached in a obviously expensive suit, that immediately said: "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?" and when I tried to tell him my name, he immediately made a 'eeeew gross' face, like he was royalty talking to a dirty peasant, and physically pushed me (not strongly) away from him. So I don't think it is self-inflicted no...
- chillacy 9y ago
  Practically speaking, the probability that 6 billion other people are all at fault and you have 0% of the blame is pretty small. Without knowing you it's hard to say what you're doing wrong, but as the parent hinted, professional help is available. It could just be that you're doing something to weird people away, or it could be deeper seated issues with how you perceive the world.
- kaolti 9y ago
  3. - seems like you're around the wrong people.
br_smartass 9y ago
Funny how this is completely flipped over. The opposite of what you said is true. Or maybe this is just because you're talking about your life in specific, with your specific circunstances, as if the same could apply to everyone. Anyone who has been into very different places, with different people living in different ways, can see very clearly that our society is sick as fuck, this is big-city-people problem, and your suggestion is big-city-people thinking and big-city-people problem solving. I don't mean to be rude, but thats how I see it.
lighttower 9y ago
Brave statement. Can you talk about what you mean by STATUS? If I project my own early 20s beliefs into OP's description, it means that I pictured myself being much wealthier than I am now, maybe arriving to work in helicopter, super successful, beautiful people dying to talk to me, and all those horrible people from highschool eating their hearts out. In my 30s I see all this is nonsense and wouldn't make me any happier. But that's not the focus of the question. OP what do you mean by STATUS?
deleted 9y ago
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deleted 9y ago
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nils-m-holm 9y ago
> Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. > Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. I like the idea of "personalized help"! I don't like the "psychological" part, though. In my experience, psychology is all about blaming people for their problems, labeling them, and looking for solutions in their minds instead of the greater context. A friend of mine has had several hundred hours of psychotherepy, ranging from psychoanalysis the CEBT, and it did not help at all, but put a lot of pressure in the form of blame on him. He had been lonely for about 20 years. Never alone, but always lonely. Of course, everybody assumed that something was "wrong" with him. Then we met. We clicked immediately and have been good friends ever since. So the solution just came to him without him contributing anything. You always have to have a look at the bigger picture, especially when it comes to topics as complex as loneliness. It cannot be solved in an individual. It's a social problem, period.
omginternets 9y ago
Everything you just described is social...
deleted 9y ago
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RivieraKid 9y ago
> Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. This is complete BS, at least in some cases. For example, social phobia or autism can be the cause of loneliness.
- ForRealsies 9y ago
  Perhaps a lack of self-compassion https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/why-self-compassion-works-better-than-self-esteem/481473/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/why-self-...
hu555 9y ago
In the good old days ppl went to church. I have a feeling religion will make a come back.
davidreiss 9y ago
> I had a status problem that was presenting as loneliness. There is a lot more to loneliness than a superficial fixation with status. You could be the president of the US or achieve all you hoped for and still be afflicted with loneliness. I'd argue that success is leads to loneliness as much as the lack of success. Also, I think rather than a psychological/therapy problem, loneliness is a philosophical problem. We all have friends, families, networks, etc, but the more aware we become/the wiser/more philosophical, the more we realize that we are truly alone. No matter what, we were born "alone" and we die "alone". There are coping mechanisms ( religion, new age life force, etc ) but from a philosophical point of view, it is the understanding that we are all "consciously" alone. Nobody can truly know us and that we are ultimately all alone. Sometimes, the loneliest place on earth is at a holiday gathering surrounded by your friends and family.
- deleted 9y ago
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- vinceguidry 9y ago
  That was my issue. Everybody's is going to be different. Regardless, it's always ultimately a personal problem, with a personal solution, not one with society. Only you can know what your intense longing and pain actually require, and only you can take action to make it part of your life. Calling it a philosophical problem isn't helpful because philosophical problems don't have solutions, only approaches for thinking about them. You're effectively saying that you don't want to not be lonely.
norea-armozel 9y ago
Well, for me, it's not that my loneliness is self-inflicted but a byproduct of having gender dysphoria and not much courage to actually transition or even socialize with other folks who are trans. Ultimately, my life is a pretty shallow one. I haven't gone to a movie with any friend or an acquaintance since I was 17 (I'm currently 37). So it's really hard to be a friend to anyone or even have someone who would want to be mine. When you don't socialize or have a means to socialize beyond a computer it becomes one of those habits that's impossible to learn when you're an adult. I don't know if I'll ever get out of this, personally, since the social skills I've built up are of the impersonal kind (good at work, professional as needed, reliable, but not relatable or warm).

trophycase 9y ago

A lot, if not most, of people's brains are not wired to meet nor interact with as many strangers as we currently do on a daily basis. Getting to know new people and forming real connections can be exhausting.

chank 9y ago

That's just like saying the problem isn't me, it's you. Society plays a huge role in people feeling lonely. I'm not saying it's the job of society to make someone feel accepted and have authentic connections, but the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else.

vinceguidry 9y ago
> the way we are currently in todays society makes it extremely difficult you'll have an authentic connection with anyone or even be that authentic connection for someone else. No. It does not. It was just as hard 30 years ago as it is now. As it was 300 years ago. 3000 even. People still congregate in places where it's easy to meet them. They still do it today, they did it all throughout history. People don't want to go, that's the problem. They don't want to talk. They don't want to open up. We idealize the past I think. There was never any magical time when people weren't lonely. There was never any magical time when people didn't kill themselves. If anything the Internet has made it easier for people to find the connection they want. It doesn't solve anybody's status problem, that still requires good ole-fashioned hard work and achievement and luck. If you're lonely, ask yourself why you refuse to go out and meet people and make connections. Even if it's just at the grocery store. Even if it's just with the homeless guy down the road. Keep digging and eventually you'll find a root cause. The nature of the problem is such that you have to be the one to reach out. You can't expect society to do that for you. Nobody can solve your loneliness problem for you. That's the hard lesson I had to learn.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dade_ 9y ago
  I think what has changed is that it is now far easier to live alone. The apps, appliances, late hours at stores, restaurants & grocery stores catering to single people and for many, an income that affords them a living arrangement without a roommate. Essentially more people than ever don't need to deal with people for the necessities. People are annoying, they get sick, cancel plans, ask for favours, make stupid decisions, and there is always so much work to do, things to optimize, fitness goals, books to read, shows to watch. It's easier, until it isn't...
  - InternetUser 9y ago
    If I may ask, what's your age and your marital status?

pmoriarty 9y ago

It's one thing to hang out with friends at a coffee shop and beat yourself up over life not turning out the way you wanted it to. It's quite another thing not to have any friends. Most of the people in the coffee shops around here have their noses buried in their laptops or books, and when they talk to people they mostly talk to friends who they went to the coffee shop with. Very few people are actually meeting new people and making new friends with random people at coffee shops. Bars are geared towards hanging out with people you already know, or hitting on strangers. I'm not sure how many people are making new friends there, unless they're relatively extroverted. Therapy these days is kind of weird. Because insurance companies don't want to pay much, it's geared towards short-term, behavior-oriented therapy. That might help with certain conditions like phobias, but I'm not sure how much it can help with deeper issues. There are other types of therapies, but because insurance mostly doesn't cover them, they're not really practical for most people (not to mention that they're out of fashion these days, as most therapists want to practice CBT because that's what the insurance covers and that's what they're taught in school as being "scientific", "modern", and "evidence-based" -- even when there's evidence it doesn't actually help). I do think the modern world, especially for people who spend a lot of time online or consuming a lot of media like TV, movies, and games, can be pretty lonely, or at least devoid of deep human contact. I'm not sure what the solution is, apart from unplugging and spending a lot of time and effort in making connections. But being psychologically ready to do that in the first place is an achievement in itself.

idle_processor 9y ago
Mind linking to some of the compelling evidence against CBT?
- pmoriarty 9y ago
  http://www.psychotherapy.net/interview/bruce-wampold-psychotherapy-effectiveness http://www.psychotherapy.net/interview/bruce-wampold-psychot...
  - chillacy 9y ago

Jabanga 9y ago

>But without massive a public investment in psychological health, personalized treatment will remain a luxury solution for those who can afford it. Hopefully with greater automation, we can free up more people to become therapists.

AstralStorm 9y ago
Also liberate people of the money to pay those therapists. /s I love shortsighted technological solutions to social problems.
- Jabanga 9y ago
  Your cynical view is very old [1]: >Predictions that automation will make humans redundant have been made before, however, going back to the Industrial Revolution, when textile workers, most famously the Luddites, protested that machines and steam engines would destroy their livelihoods. “Never until now did human invention devise such expedients for dispensing with the labour of the poor,” said a pamphlet at the time. Subsequent outbreaks of concern occurred in the 1920s (“March of the machine makes idle hands”, declared a New York Times headline in 1928), the 1930s (when John Maynard Keynes coined the term “technological unemployment”) and 1940s, when the New York Times referred to the revival of such worries as the renewal of an “old argument”. >As computers began to appear in offices and robots on factory floors, President John F. Kennedy declared that the major domestic challenge of the 1960s was to “maintain full employment at a time when automation…is replacing men”. In 1964 a group of Nobel prizewinners, known as the Ad Hoc Committee on the Triple Revolution, sent President Lyndon Johnson a memo alerting him to the danger of a revolution triggered by “the combination of the computer and the automated self-regulating machine”. This, they said, was leading to a new era of production “which requires progressively less human labour” and threatened to divide society into a skilled elite and an unskilled underclass. The advent of personal computers in the 1980s provoked further hand-wringing over potential job losses. and based on a simplistic understanding of how automation impacts the demand for labour. Automation reduces costs, and this increases consumer spending on more difficult to automate goods/services. [2] That has been the pattern for 200 years, and why wages today are 20X what they were in 1800. Unfortunately, ideas like yours are very common [3] and lead to terrible government policy. [1] https://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21700758-will-smarter-machines-cause-mass-unemployment-automation-and-anxiety https://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21700758-will-... [2] https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/24/13327014/productivity-paradox-innovation-growth https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/24/13327014/productivi... [3] http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/11/the_big_four_ec.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2006/11/the_big_four_ec.html

ambicapter 9y ago

Thanks for this. Thanks a lot for this.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

bogomipz 9y ago

>"Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one." Its fascinating that you you have chosen to state this as fact without any supporting data. >"Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem." Again based on what, just because you say so? There's an excellent book called "Bowling Alone" that came out in 2000 long before social media. The book traces a phenomenon of declining "social capital" that began in post war boom. Social media and the large scale replacing of real interaction with those conducted by phone has only exacerbated this. There plenty of real data in the book and the author conducted half a million interviews over 25 years. See: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/p/putnam-alone.html http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/p/putnam-alone.html >Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. There is big difference between being alone and "feeling alone." Going to Wall Mart or coffee shops solves the problem of the former. This "being alone" however is generally not the one psychologists are referring to when they talk about the modern phenomenon of "chronic loneliness." Of hose 50 people on the street you refer to, how many of those people have ear buds in and are/or are staring at, typing on or talking on phone as they walk? How many are cognizant of those around them? Most of them wouldn't hear you even if you did try talk to them. Spend just 5 minutes walking anywhere Manhattan and it is quite apparent. Walk into a bar and most everyone waiting for their friend is staring at or typing into their smart phone. Their maybe 50 people around on the street but most of them are in their own private bubble. The Atlantic recently had an interview with John Cacioppo who is something of an expert on the subject. He sites both cultural and environmental reasons for an uptick in loneliness. See: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-loneliness-begets-loneliness/521841/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/how-lonel...

kagamine 9y ago
> There is big difference between being alone and "feeling alone. One key indicator over the last 100 years has been: if I get a bad cold and lie in bed for 3 days, will anyone phone or knock on my door? If the answer is no, you might feel very lonely. Going to a coffee shop isn't going to change that.

pavel_lishin 9y ago

> Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. > Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. I'm not saying that to belittle it, I'm saying it because the reasons most people give for being lonely have nothing to do with the actual reasons. I met two strangers today, in the sense of having a long-ish conversation with them. One of them was incredibly boring, to the point where I'd rather be on an island by myself than with that person. The other, maybe could become a friend, if we both put some effort into it. Saying that there are 50 people living on the same block as you is like telling a hungry man that people threw away the remnants of 50 meals. Sure, you could dig through the garbage and eke out an existence, but it's not really a good solution to hunger.

chillacy 9y ago
If you're starving, those leftovers will have to do. Likewise if you're actually suffering health consequences from being lonely, those boring people will have to do. And over time, meeting 2 people a day (especially doing common activities like startup events or sports), you'd probably eventually meet people you gel with.

RoboTeddy 9y ago

There are all sorts of forces that could be leading to more widespread loneliness, e.g.: * As material wealth increases, there's less need to share physical resources (bathrooms, courtyards, etc). These resources tended to bring the same people together frequently, which is a (the?) important precursor for developing a close social tie. * Many bright ambitious women used to organize all sorts of social capital increasing endeavors; this was reduced when society reformed and excellent private-sector career paths became more available. * People often move for college, and then again for work (perhaps more than once) -- this used to be more rare. Moves like these have big negative externalities, since they rip the shared social fabric. These problems arise mainly from collective decisions and changes in culture and economics, and aren't self-inflicted by individuals. It doesn't really make sense to say that a problem is self-inflicted when it applies to a large percentage of people-- almost by definition there's something else going on.

speeder 9y ago

I have to really disagree. I don't have friends... But it is not really a self-inflicted problem, I did tried to strike conversations with random strangers the most I could, be pleasant, whatnot. But the places where I lived, it just didn't worked. 1. My neighbourhood has a race problem, most people there are mixed race but think themselves as black, I am mixed race too, but I look white. Trying to talk to neighbours didn't led to friendships, it led to people threatening to sic their pitbulls on me or showing to me their baseball bats and telling me to get my white ass out of their black neighbourhood. 2. For some time I lived in a Brazil's biggest city, where most people moved there to work, and are always in a hurry, there is always something to do, and they are always 'just passing', people frequently don't want to have friends, because they don't want to get attached to a place where they want to be only temporarily, and often people don't even strike random conversations, they are too busy, sometimes it wasn't even possible, like overcrowded and noisy public transport where you couldn't hear even yourself, much less someone else talking to you. 3. I went to some startup-related events, my company wasn't famous, and I didn't even had money to look fancy, for example I can't afford a nice watch. (an object I saw lots of successful startup owners wearing, despite today most people checking time on their phone...). Many people flat out refused to talk to me, they were dismissive in some ways, or moved away, or one guy I approached in a obviously expensive suit, that immediately said: "WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU?" and when I tried to tell him my name, he immediately made a 'eeeew gross' face, like he was royalty talking to a dirty peasant, and physically pushed me (not strongly) away from him. So I don't think it is self-inflicted no...

chillacy 9y ago
Practically speaking, the probability that 6 billion other people are all at fault and you have 0% of the blame is pretty small. Without knowing you it's hard to say what you're doing wrong, but as the parent hinted, professional help is available. It could just be that you're doing something to weird people away, or it could be deeper seated issues with how you perceive the world.
kaolti 9y ago
3. - seems like you're around the wrong people.

br_smartass 9y ago

Funny how this is completely flipped over. The opposite of what you said is true. Or maybe this is just because you're talking about your life in specific, with your specific circunstances, as if the same could apply to everyone. Anyone who has been into very different places, with different people living in different ways, can see very clearly that our society is sick as fuck, this is big-city-people problem, and your suggestion is big-city-people thinking and big-city-people problem solving. I don't mean to be rude, but thats how I see it.

lighttower 9y ago

Brave statement. Can you talk about what you mean by STATUS? If I project my own early 20s beliefs into OP's description, it means that I pictured myself being much wealthier than I am now, maybe arriving to work in helicopter, super successful, beautiful people dying to talk to me, and all those horrible people from highschool eating their hearts out. In my 30s I see all this is nonsense and wouldn't make me any happier. But that's not the focus of the question. OP what do you mean by STATUS?

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nils-m-holm 9y ago

> Loneliness is a psychological problem masquerading as a social one. > Look, there are people all around us. Neighborhood streets have, what, 50 people on them? People congregate at churches, bars, coffee shops, even Wal-Marts. I like the idea of "personalized help"! I don't like the "psychological" part, though. In my experience, psychology is all about blaming people for their problems, labeling them, and looking for solutions in their minds instead of the greater context. A friend of mine has had several hundred hours of psychotherepy, ranging from psychoanalysis the CEBT, and it did not help at all, but put a lot of pressure in the form of blame on him. He had been lonely for about 20 years. Never alone, but always lonely. Of course, everybody assumed that something was "wrong" with him. Then we met. We clicked immediately and have been good friends ever since. So the solution just came to him without him contributing anything. You always have to have a look at the bigger picture, especially when it comes to topics as complex as loneliness. It cannot be solved in an individual. It's a social problem, period.

omginternets 9y ago

Everything you just described is social...

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RivieraKid 9y ago

> Loneliness is a self-inflicted problem. This is complete BS, at least in some cases. For example, social phobia or autism can be the cause of loneliness.

ForRealsies 9y ago
Perhaps a lack of self-compassion https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/why-self-compassion-works-better-than-self-esteem/481473/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/05/why-self-...

hu555 9y ago

In the good old days ppl went to church. I have a feeling religion will make a come back.

davidreiss 9y ago

> I had a status problem that was presenting as loneliness. There is a lot more to loneliness than a superficial fixation with status. You could be the president of the US or achieve all you hoped for and still be afflicted with loneliness. I'd argue that success is leads to loneliness as much as the lack of success. Also, I think rather than a psychological/therapy problem, loneliness is a philosophical problem. We all have friends, families, networks, etc, but the more aware we become/the wiser/more philosophical, the more we realize that we are truly alone. No matter what, we were born "alone" and we die "alone". There are coping mechanisms ( religion, new age life force, etc ) but from a philosophical point of view, it is the understanding that we are all "consciously" alone. Nobody can truly know us and that we are ultimately all alone. Sometimes, the loneliest place on earth is at a holiday gathering surrounded by your friends and family.

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vinceguidry 9y ago
That was my issue. Everybody's is going to be different. Regardless, it's always ultimately a personal problem, with a personal solution, not one with society. Only you can know what your intense longing and pain actually require, and only you can take action to make it part of your life. Calling it a philosophical problem isn't helpful because philosophical problems don't have solutions, only approaches for thinking about them. You're effectively saying that you don't want to not be lonely.

norea-armozel 9y ago

Well, for me, it's not that my loneliness is self-inflicted but a byproduct of having gender dysphoria and not much courage to actually transition or even socialize with other folks who are trans. Ultimately, my life is a pretty shallow one. I haven't gone to a movie with any friend or an acquaintance since I was 17 (I'm currently 37). So it's really hard to be a friend to anyone or even have someone who would want to be mine. When you don't socialize or have a means to socialize beyond a computer it becomes one of those habits that's impossible to learn when you're an adult. I don't know if I'll ever get out of this, personally, since the social skills I've built up are of the impersonal kind (good at work, professional as needed, reliable, but not relatable or warm).