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Having read the full manifesto, I find myself agreeing with the author's thought process for a bunch of his points and clearly disagreeing with others. He prese

Having read the full manifesto, I find myself agreeing with the author's thought process for a bunch of his points and clearly disagreeing with others. He presented them well, not offensive at all, and if I had a discussion with him I'm sure he seems open to change certain beliefs if presented with ample evidence. I would generally love talking to this guy. Instead everyone shames him, tells him his mostly very valid thought process is sexist and his career is done. This guy woukd never discuss this with anyone and things will go on as they do today or worse he'll ostracize the left completely and will go in his own bubble and no positive change. This is what happened with Trump, an acquaintance posted on Facebook how the gender wage gap was almost nonexistent at the same job, industry and role but how we should instead work towards empowering women to better deal with promotions and re entering work force after pregnancy and unanimously got destroyed by maybe a hundred fb friends. He removed most of them and started jut posting pro trump stuff and I don't blame him

am1988 9y ago
I'm reading it now and it comes off as another (very well off) conservative complaining about how they are oppressed and discriminated against. It's no different than the narratives peddled about white genocide or christian oppression. > I consider myself a classical liberal and strongly value individualism and reason I am so very shocked by that.
unityByFreedom 9y ago
> Instead everyone shames him, tells him his mostly very valid thought process is sexist and his career is done What? This guy has gotten an unbelievable amount of attention and debate on the topic he wanted to discuss, both in support and against it. Trump got the same attention, and constantly complained he didn't get enough. Enough with this lie that certain [far right] conservatives don't get enough press. They get plenty of it by making outlandish statements that they know will get them lots of attention, both good and bad.
- fatso83 9y ago
  You fail to see the difference between attention and actual debate. Very few of the opposing views actually try to dissect his statements, but choose to rant away. Yonatan's piece being a prime example of an ad hominem that attacks views he never once wrote in favour of. It's also quite dishonest of you to liken a reasonably well written, source referenced piece with the rants from the clown in the oval office. The manifest was to start a debate, not chants of MAGA. Instead of general statements about outlandish remarks, attack what he actually said.
  - unityByFreedom 9y ago
    > It's also quite dishonest of you to liken a reasonably well written, source referenced piece with the rants from the clown in the oval office. The parent comment mentioned Trump, and I'm responding to that. Fact is, the parent comment, the manifesto author, and Trump, all complain about not getting the proper attention. Meanwhile, they're getting a TON OF IT! and laughing all the way to the attention-bank. > You fail to see the difference between attention and actual debate "Actual debate"? Sounds like you want the debate to happen on your terms. That's not how debate works. The original author wrote that women have "higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance". That is highly debatable. Yonatan responds to the author's belief that "women and men are intrinsically different" as it pertains to the workplace. We all know that, historically speaking, women have had fewer rights and opportunities than men. Women won equal rights from government, and it's not so shocking to me that a company might try diversity training in order to move the needle further towards equal opportunity.
smb06 9y ago
You are saying what the guy posted wasn't offensive and also that everyone is finding it offensive. That makes no sense unless everyone is stupid.
- SamReidHughes 9y ago
  Maybe everyone is stupid. Not really -- some are malicious, for example, this medium post starts with a bald-faced lie.
  - retox 9y ago
    You're correct, but this story is being buried on HN. The lie at the beginning; >about, essentially, how women and men are intrinsically different and we should stop trying to make it possible for women to be engineers, it’s just not worth it
  - sizzle 9y ago
    Thank you for pointing this out, really changed his credibility in my eyes.
- asciicircum 9y ago
  > You are saying what the guy posted wasn't offensive and also that everyone is finding it offensive. This is exactly what's been going through my mind following the threads on this issue today. > That makes no sense unless everyone is stupid. I think this is a false dichotomy. The offended comments seem to be offended by arguments similar to those in the manifesto rather than those in the manifesto. E.g. offense is rightly taken at the argument "biological differences explain job preferences" while the manifesto argues "biological differences explain job preferences [in part]". So rather than [A] being being offended by something that is not offensive (i.e. stupid) or [B] the manifesto being offensive I think we're left with [C] people being rightly offended by something that's not in the manifesto. With this the argument becomes: That makes no sense unless people have bad reading comprehension Which I happily accept :)
  - smb06 9y ago
dictum 9y ago
> Instead everyone shames him, tells him his mostly very valid thought process is sexist and his career is done. It's a method: https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session
- s3cur3 9y ago
  Broken link (missing a colon): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session
baby 9y ago
"That's how you create monsters". Reminds me of that guy in France, Dieudonné. He was a pretty famous comedian and he ended up making a joke about jewish people on TV. The jewish lobby got hard on him, got him banned from TV channels. Consequently he got banned from radios, cities started refusing him touring, etc... Now he became a huge antisemitic and he's friend with all the extreme-right people.
- edison85 9y ago
  http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/google-fires-viewpoint-diversity-manifesto-author-james-damore/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/google-fires-viewpo... He was contacted by breitbart the alt right extremist nationalist paper which is comprised of very xenophobic individuals, at least as of now, and he responded to their emails and not to others as far as I can tell. He's now clearly pissed and will speak out because he's ostracized completely by the left. MIT Harvard phd, damn it got another Dieudonne

am1988 9y ago

I'm reading it now and it comes off as another (very well off) conservative complaining about how they are oppressed and discriminated against. It's no different than the narratives peddled about white genocide or christian oppression. > I consider myself a classical liberal and strongly value individualism and reason I am so very shocked by that.

unityByFreedom 9y ago

> Instead everyone shames him, tells him his mostly very valid thought process is sexist and his career is done What? This guy has gotten an unbelievable amount of attention and debate on the topic he wanted to discuss, both in support and against it. Trump got the same attention, and constantly complained he didn't get enough. Enough with this lie that certain [far right] conservatives don't get enough press. They get plenty of it by making outlandish statements that they know will get them lots of attention, both good and bad.

fatso83 9y ago
You fail to see the difference between attention and actual debate. Very few of the opposing views actually try to dissect his statements, but choose to rant away. Yonatan's piece being a prime example of an ad hominem that attacks views he never once wrote in favour of. It's also quite dishonest of you to liken a reasonably well written, source referenced piece with the rants from the clown in the oval office. The manifest was to start a debate, not chants of MAGA. Instead of general statements about outlandish remarks, attack what he actually said.
- unityByFreedom 9y ago
  > It's also quite dishonest of you to liken a reasonably well written, source referenced piece with the rants from the clown in the oval office. The parent comment mentioned Trump, and I'm responding to that. Fact is, the parent comment, the manifesto author, and Trump, all complain about not getting the proper attention. Meanwhile, they're getting a TON OF IT! and laughing all the way to the attention-bank. > You fail to see the difference between attention and actual debate "Actual debate"? Sounds like you want the debate to happen on your terms. That's not how debate works. The original author wrote that women have "higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance". That is highly debatable. Yonatan responds to the author's belief that "women and men are intrinsically different" as it pertains to the workplace. We all know that, historically speaking, women have had fewer rights and opportunities than men. Women won equal rights from government, and it's not so shocking to me that a company might try diversity training in order to move the needle further towards equal opportunity.

smb06 9y ago

You are saying what the guy posted wasn't offensive and also that everyone is finding it offensive. That makes no sense unless everyone is stupid.

SamReidHughes 9y ago
Maybe everyone is stupid. Not really -- some are malicious, for example, this medium post starts with a bald-faced lie.
- retox 9y ago
  You're correct, but this story is being buried on HN. The lie at the beginning; >about, essentially, how women and men are intrinsically different and we should stop trying to make it possible for women to be engineers, it’s just not worth it
- sizzle 9y ago
  Thank you for pointing this out, really changed his credibility in my eyes.
asciicircum 9y ago
> You are saying what the guy posted wasn't offensive and also that everyone is finding it offensive. This is exactly what's been going through my mind following the threads on this issue today. > That makes no sense unless everyone is stupid. I think this is a false dichotomy. The offended comments seem to be offended by arguments similar to those in the manifesto rather than those in the manifesto. E.g. offense is rightly taken at the argument "biological differences explain job preferences" while the manifesto argues "biological differences explain job preferences [in part]". So rather than [A] being being offended by something that is not offensive (i.e. stupid) or [B] the manifesto being offensive I think we're left with [C] people being rightly offended by something that's not in the manifesto. With this the argument becomes: That makes no sense unless people have bad reading comprehension Which I happily accept :)
- smb06 9y ago

dictum 9y ago

> Instead everyone shames him, tells him his mostly very valid thought process is sexist and his career is done. It's a method: https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session

s3cur3 9y ago
Broken link (missing a colon): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session

baby 9y ago

"That's how you create monsters". Reminds me of that guy in France, Dieudonné. He was a pretty famous comedian and he ended up making a joke about jewish people on TV. The jewish lobby got hard on him, got him banned from TV channels. Consequently he got banned from radios, cities started refusing him touring, etc... Now he became a huge antisemitic and he's friend with all the extreme-right people.

edison85 9y ago
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/google-fires-viewpoint-diversity-manifesto-author-james-damore/ http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/google-fires-viewpo... He was contacted by breitbart the alt right extremist nationalist paper which is comprised of very xenophobic individuals, at least as of now, and he responded to their emails and not to others as far as I can tell. He's now clearly pissed and will speak out because he's ostracized completely by the left. MIT Harvard phd, damn it got another Dieudonne