8 ms·

If you can't answer a yes no question without wishy-washy flim-flam pr doublespeak then you don't get to complain that an article doesn't have facts. and while

If you can't answer a yes no question without wishy-washy flim-flam pr doublespeak then you don't get to complain that an article doesn't have facts. and while i'm ranting. what is with founders presenting them selves as "bro's at the bar"? If the founders had bios that looked like they were from upper management at ibm i might be more likely to use their service.

em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
Maybe they aren't trying to people like you, who are likely smart enough to know this service is highly suspect. Maybe they are trying to appeal to the average "bro".
- jimjimjim 9y ago
  that's a possibility, maybe they are trying to present a persona that will resonate with a particular type of person that will try to 'beat the system' without considering risks. (although I have seen different places with 'about us' pages that look like a frat.)
  - gaius 9y ago
    They don't just need "mules", they need people with packages to send, they're whose paying for this after all. So whatever company persona would need to appeal to them too - if this were deliberate.
    - Klover 9y ago
      You can simply have a different front that looks like your average courier service. Call that front Airline Express, where you would try to look professional and trustworthy. Kind of similar to how Nestle has brands that appeal to different groups instead of calling everything Nestle.
  - chii 9y ago
    so you're saying they are trying to get suckers to take all the risk (unknowningly), and profit off that themselves!
gaius 9y ago
Quite. A 30-year logistics industry veteran branching out is one thing, this is something totally else. And at heart is the same as all "disruptive" or "sharing economy" businesses - sidestepping regulations and pocketing the cost of compliance.
- xemdetia 9y ago
  What is frustrating in this one as well is that sidestepping the regulations is putting the 'gig contractor/employee/worker' in tremendous risk without giving formal training. I love the fact that their site lists them as a 9-5 place without a timezone. Of all the things that need 24hr support international travel from NA to China is one of them.
  - aphextron 9y ago
    >What is frustrating in this one as well is that sidestepping the regulations is putting the 'gig contractor/employee/worker' in tremendous risk without giving formal training. This sounds like the basis for the entire "sharing economy".
    - ascorbic 9y ago
      Yes, but I'm not sure anywhere has the death penalty for unlicensed taxi driving.
      - aphextron 9y ago
        http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-driver-killed-teen-charged-met-20170531-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-dr... http://wjla.com/news/local/2-men-arrested-in-connection-with-murdered-north-carolina-uber-driver http://wjla.com/news/local/2-men-arrested-in-connection-with... http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Two-Uber-drivers-shot-and-killed-in-separate-6963326.php http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Two-Uber-drivers-shot-and... http://wspa.com/2017/04/14/uber-driver-city-board-member-shot-to-death-in-greenville-county/ http://wspa.com/2017/04/14/uber-driver-city-board-member-sho...
mseebach 9y ago
It is rejecting the premise of the question. Airmule isn't a common carrier, so engaging with a line of questioning that presumes they are a common carrier is a lose/lose situation - the sort of questioning sometimes caricatured as "when did you stop beating your wife". Rightfully so, too. The blogger clearly chose his very unfriendly angle. Of the few actual quotes from the company are statements such as on-board couriers being an established industry, both FedEx and UPS being in that industry and all shipments complying with customs. If the blogger was genuinely interested in informing his readers, diving into those statements would be interesting, but he seems to reject them out of hand, preferring instead to pursue a "gotcha" question about common carrier status.
- rini17 9y ago
  No matter how supposedly hostile the question was, if there really is any genuine law protection of "couriers" - then company rep could just point out the relevant FAQ item. They are using as "couriers" mostly completely uninformed laypersons, which can't be expected to know what ocs is, ffs!
- Fnoord 9y ago
  > sometimes caricatured as "when did you stop beating your wife". You misunderstood that one. You cannot answer yes to that question since it implies you were beating your wife in the past. You cannot answer no to the question since it implies you are still beating your wife nowadays. Hence the question requires an in depth answer. Another poster above wrote as example reply: "I have never beaten my significant other". That's a clear answer, and if you said that under oath and its found out you lied, you got one more issue on your plate. And that's the goal of the question: it forces the other party to increase accountability. Because the question provokes (or 'requires') an in depth answer like the example provided it is a good question in interrogation techniques, but also a good question to ask from the hands or mouth of a journalist (or interviewer). Which a blogger arguably is. If anything, if you read through the article, the blogger is actually quite friendly and sympathetic about the startup. It just turned sour after the vague, dodging responses. When you get such vague, dodging responses you are at the very least dealing with amateurs, and at worst with people who know very well what they're up to.
ptero 9y ago
Probably their target user is a poor undergrad/grad student taking a trip home, so they hope a bro at the bar is someone they can connect with. A suit from IBM --not so much.

em3rgent0rdr 9y ago

Maybe they aren't trying to people like you, who are likely smart enough to know this service is highly suspect. Maybe they are trying to appeal to the average "bro".

jimjimjim 9y ago
that's a possibility, maybe they are trying to present a persona that will resonate with a particular type of person that will try to 'beat the system' without considering risks. (although I have seen different places with 'about us' pages that look like a frat.)
- gaius 9y ago
  They don't just need "mules", they need people with packages to send, they're whose paying for this after all. So whatever company persona would need to appeal to them too - if this were deliberate.
  - Klover 9y ago
    You can simply have a different front that looks like your average courier service. Call that front Airline Express, where you would try to look professional and trustworthy. Kind of similar to how Nestle has brands that appeal to different groups instead of calling everything Nestle.
- chii 9y ago
  so you're saying they are trying to get suckers to take all the risk (unknowningly), and profit off that themselves!

gaius 9y ago

Quite. A 30-year logistics industry veteran branching out is one thing, this is something totally else. And at heart is the same as all "disruptive" or "sharing economy" businesses - sidestepping regulations and pocketing the cost of compliance.

xemdetia 9y ago
What is frustrating in this one as well is that sidestepping the regulations is putting the 'gig contractor/employee/worker' in tremendous risk without giving formal training. I love the fact that their site lists them as a 9-5 place without a timezone. Of all the things that need 24hr support international travel from NA to China is one of them.
- aphextron 9y ago
  >What is frustrating in this one as well is that sidestepping the regulations is putting the 'gig contractor/employee/worker' in tremendous risk without giving formal training. This sounds like the basis for the entire "sharing economy".
  - ascorbic 9y ago
    Yes, but I'm not sure anywhere has the death penalty for unlicensed taxi driving.
    - aphextron 9y ago
      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-driver-killed-teen-charged-met-20170531-story.html http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-dr... http://wjla.com/news/local/2-men-arrested-in-connection-with-murdered-north-carolina-uber-driver http://wjla.com/news/local/2-men-arrested-in-connection-with... http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Two-Uber-drivers-shot-and-killed-in-separate-6963326.php http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Two-Uber-drivers-shot-and... http://wspa.com/2017/04/14/uber-driver-city-board-member-shot-to-death-in-greenville-county/ http://wspa.com/2017/04/14/uber-driver-city-board-member-sho...

mseebach 9y ago

It is rejecting the premise of the question. Airmule isn't a common carrier, so engaging with a line of questioning that presumes they are a common carrier is a lose/lose situation - the sort of questioning sometimes caricatured as "when did you stop beating your wife". Rightfully so, too. The blogger clearly chose his very unfriendly angle. Of the few actual quotes from the company are statements such as on-board couriers being an established industry, both FedEx and UPS being in that industry and all shipments complying with customs. If the blogger was genuinely interested in informing his readers, diving into those statements would be interesting, but he seems to reject them out of hand, preferring instead to pursue a "gotcha" question about common carrier status.

rini17 9y ago
No matter how supposedly hostile the question was, if there really is any genuine law protection of "couriers" - then company rep could just point out the relevant FAQ item. They are using as "couriers" mostly completely uninformed laypersons, which can't be expected to know what ocs is, ffs!
Fnoord 9y ago
> sometimes caricatured as "when did you stop beating your wife". You misunderstood that one. You cannot answer yes to that question since it implies you were beating your wife in the past. You cannot answer no to the question since it implies you are still beating your wife nowadays. Hence the question requires an in depth answer. Another poster above wrote as example reply: "I have never beaten my significant other". That's a clear answer, and if you said that under oath and its found out you lied, you got one more issue on your plate. And that's the goal of the question: it forces the other party to increase accountability. Because the question provokes (or 'requires') an in depth answer like the example provided it is a good question in interrogation techniques, but also a good question to ask from the hands or mouth of a journalist (or interviewer). Which a blogger arguably is. If anything, if you read through the article, the blogger is actually quite friendly and sympathetic about the startup. It just turned sour after the vague, dodging responses. When you get such vague, dodging responses you are at the very least dealing with amateurs, and at worst with people who know very well what they're up to.

ptero 9y ago

Probably their target user is a poor undergrad/grad student taking a trip home, so they hope a bro at the bar is someone they can connect with. A suit from IBM --not so much.