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The question is not correctly formed: what we really want to know is if there are life-like beings that could operate on a totally different scale than ours (bo

The question is not correctly formed: what we really want to know is if there are life-like beings that could operate on a totally different scale than ours (both time and size wise, including viruses and whales here). Self centered thinking, i.e. restricting our inquiry to only include protein-based lifeforms or other qualities required on our scale obviously prevents us from having the required open minded mindset.

diminish 9y ago
states, companies, religious communities, planets as whole ecosystems can all be construed as "single being"s.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dawnerd 9y ago
  Similarly fire ant colonies could be considered the same. https://youtu.be/NpiDADw5Omw https://youtu.be/NpiDADw5Omw
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
Consultant32452 9y ago
There are more bacterial cells in your body than there are human cells. Where exactly do you draw the line between what constitutes "you."
- delecti 9y ago
  A zoo is still a zoo if there aren't any animals in it, but it wouldn't stay in business very long. No matter how important the animals are to the long-term viability of the zoo, they are not the zoo. My gut bacteria may be vital to my survival, but they are not me. I don't find placing that line to be difficult at all.
  - knome 9y ago
    The only part of the flesh which is "you" is the nervous system. Everything else can be hacked off or replaced without a loss of identity.
    - chongli 9y ago
      So if somebody has a limb amputation, losing a lot of nerves, are they a different person? Is somebody a different person when they're drunk? I've heard both of these thrown around colloquially. It's not obvious or straightforward to answer. You could imagine a Ship of Theseus style replacement of all the neurons in your head with artificial ones. At what point would you stop being you?
      - yladiz 9y ago
        My thoughts are that 'you' as a person change constantly, year to year, and who you are now is not the same as 5, 10, more years ago. I don't think it's so much that you are a different person because you lost a limb or are drunk, it's the change in personality and mind that accompany those that makes that person different. You could absolutely lose a limb and be 'the same' person, but you could also change significantly.
        unkown-unknowns 9y ago
        Sure but my past selves are also part of who I am. Without them I would not be me, and so I think they are more me than not me.
      - knome 9y ago
        Never. "I" am a pattern of self awareness. The constituent parts are irrelevant. So long as the parts support the self awareness, "I" am.
        chongli 9y ago
        So you would have no qualms about stepping into a Star Trek-style transporter, having your pattern scanned, your matter destroyed and recreated at the destination? If so, I would ask: what if the destroy step malfunctioned? There would be two of you. Which one would you be?
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  When you're tasting yoghurt, it's tasting you.
- nr152522 9y ago
  I guess you are just an ever changing object, referenced by a name, created by your parents and affected by your environment. Human myName = new Human(mother, father, environment, spacetime); Location birthPlace = myName.mother.getCurrentLocation; location bithTime = myName.myMother.getCurrentBirthTime; myName.removeAllLimbs(); myName.upgradeAllLimbs(); CloneUtils.cloneHuman(myName, 'myClone') AssertEquals(myName, myClone) //false
  - anon335dtzbvc 9y ago
    Hm what happens if we make those values immutable?
    - jonathanpoulter 9y ago
      That's a bit interesting, what WOULD you do to model this?
  - dwaltrip 9y ago
    Human individuals are a dynamic, changing pattern that persist for 80 years or so.
- OscarCunningham 9y ago
  >There are more bacterial cells in your body than there are human cells. I couldn't believe this was true so I looked it up. Apparently it really is! Of course the bacteria are on average much smaller and lighter than human cells. Also this: >The numbers are similar enough that each defecation event may flip the ratio to favour human cells over bacteria
- moomin 9y ago
  I think it's instructive to consider an article written by a bacterium about the possibility of living creatures at the metre length scale.
transposed 9y ago
Well that rules out Boltmann brains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
celticninja 9y ago
Whales are always the go to for examples of large lifeforms but even that is part of the issue you taken about, restricting the definition of a lifeform to being what we think it should be. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-... http://oddculture.com/biggest-animal-made-structures-in-the-world/ http://oddculture.com/biggest-animal-made-structures-in-the-...

diminish 9y ago

states, companies, religious communities, planets as whole ecosystems can all be construed as "single being"s.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
dawnerd 9y ago
Similarly fire ant colonies could be considered the same. https://youtu.be/NpiDADw5Omw https://youtu.be/NpiDADw5Omw
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

Consultant32452 9y ago

There are more bacterial cells in your body than there are human cells. Where exactly do you draw the line between what constitutes "you."

delecti 9y ago
A zoo is still a zoo if there aren't any animals in it, but it wouldn't stay in business very long. No matter how important the animals are to the long-term viability of the zoo, they are not the zoo. My gut bacteria may be vital to my survival, but they are not me. I don't find placing that line to be difficult at all.
- knome 9y ago
  The only part of the flesh which is "you" is the nervous system. Everything else can be hacked off or replaced without a loss of identity.
  - chongli 9y ago
    So if somebody has a limb amputation, losing a lot of nerves, are they a different person? Is somebody a different person when they're drunk? I've heard both of these thrown around colloquially. It's not obvious or straightforward to answer. You could imagine a Ship of Theseus style replacement of all the neurons in your head with artificial ones. At what point would you stop being you?
    - yladiz 9y ago
      My thoughts are that 'you' as a person change constantly, year to year, and who you are now is not the same as 5, 10, more years ago. I don't think it's so much that you are a different person because you lost a limb or are drunk, it's the change in personality and mind that accompany those that makes that person different. You could absolutely lose a limb and be 'the same' person, but you could also change significantly.
      - unkown-unknowns 9y ago
        Sure but my past selves are also part of who I am. Without them I would not be me, and so I think they are more me than not me.
    - knome 9y ago
      Never. "I" am a pattern of self awareness. The constituent parts are irrelevant. So long as the parts support the self awareness, "I" am.
      - chongli 9y ago
        So you would have no qualms about stepping into a Star Trek-style transporter, having your pattern scanned, your matter destroyed and recreated at the destination? If so, I would ask: what if the destroy step malfunctioned? There would be two of you. Which one would you be?
DonHopkins 9y ago
When you're tasting yoghurt, it's tasting you.
nr152522 9y ago
I guess you are just an ever changing object, referenced by a name, created by your parents and affected by your environment. Human myName = new Human(mother, father, environment, spacetime); Location birthPlace = myName.mother.getCurrentLocation; location bithTime = myName.myMother.getCurrentBirthTime; myName.removeAllLimbs(); myName.upgradeAllLimbs(); CloneUtils.cloneHuman(myName, 'myClone') AssertEquals(myName, myClone) //false
- anon335dtzbvc 9y ago
  Hm what happens if we make those values immutable?
  - jonathanpoulter 9y ago
    That's a bit interesting, what WOULD you do to model this?
- dwaltrip 9y ago
  Human individuals are a dynamic, changing pattern that persist for 80 years or so.
OscarCunningham 9y ago
>There are more bacterial cells in your body than there are human cells. I couldn't believe this was true so I looked it up. Apparently it really is! Of course the bacteria are on average much smaller and lighter than human cells. Also this: >The numbers are similar enough that each defecation event may flip the ratio to favour human cells over bacteria
moomin 9y ago
I think it's instructive to consider an article written by a bacterium about the possibility of living creatures at the metre length scale.

transposed 9y ago

Well that rules out Boltmann brains https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain

celticninja 9y ago

Whales are always the go to for examples of large lifeforms but even that is part of the issue you taken about, restricting the definition of a lifeform to being what we think it should be. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-largest-organism-is-fungus/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-... http://oddculture.com/biggest-animal-made-structures-in-the-world/ http://oddculture.com/biggest-animal-made-structures-in-the-...